Tornado GR1 question?
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 729
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From: South Wales
BGG
Yes sorry it was an “in joke”. The Fin Fuel Tank did not have a gauge. All it had was a light in the cockpit that indicated:
“Fin E” – The Fin was empty
“Fin” – to indicate fuel was transferring
and
“Fin F” – The fin was full
You always watched for this light when refuelling. Therefore when you got totally hammered at a beer call you had achieved “Fin F”
AGS man,
We had a few beeps going off in the ASF Hangar as well
Yes sorry it was an “in joke”. The Fin Fuel Tank did not have a gauge. All it had was a light in the cockpit that indicated:
“Fin E” – The Fin was empty
“Fin” – to indicate fuel was transferring
and
“Fin F” – The fin was full
You always watched for this light when refuelling. Therefore when you got totally hammered at a beer call you had achieved “Fin F”
AGS man,
We had a few beeps going off in the ASF Hangar as well
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 45
From: front seat, facing forwards
Some outstanding times and some outstanding people. 
48-ship mass launch at the end of TACEVAL, no ATC, Yellow 1 on the North German Plain....thanks Harry! Belgian F-16's at 50ft, F4's capping at the Peheim Mast, 8-ship IMC night TFR at Goose (planned on the CPGS 
)......quick, sandbags on the doors, swing the lights. 
)
You could park the GR1 with the wings swept, as long as the Fin was empty but as we almost always filled it, you never did sweep them for parking/taxiing.
Jackaroo - I hope I can answer your "1700mph" question adequately. The term "top speed" is largely irrelevant as it all depends upon, amongst many other things, drag. The more you carry outside/hang off the ac, the slower it is. F3's were lucky in that they flew around without fuel tanks or ECM most of the time and whilst this limited their fuel, they could still fly fooooooking quick when they wanted. On the GR1, because we always had tanks and ECM fitted (in a war, we'd be going a lot further into badlands), we had quite limiting speed limits on the stores we carried. Occasionally you could fly an air test clean and I once tried an 'acceleration test' downwind at the range at Capa Frasca (Deci). 300kts to 600kts in 21 secs, carrying CBLS though so still quite draggy. I was quite impressed with that and she was still pulling like a train at 600. Also saw 590kts in dry power at low level with tanks, ecm & CBLS....forgot to set the autothrottle and got distracted.
Ac with the smaller (subsonic) fuel tanks had a tendency to.....errr.....step sideways when you went a little too quick.
48-ship mass launch at the end of TACEVAL, no ATC, Yellow 1 on the North German Plain....thanks Harry! Belgian F-16's at 50ft, F4's capping at the Peheim Mast, 8-ship IMC night TFR at Goose (planned on the CPGS )......quick, sandbags on the doors, swing the lights. )You could park the GR1 with the wings swept, as long as the Fin was empty but as we almost always filled it, you never did sweep them for parking/taxiing.
Jackaroo - I hope I can answer your "1700mph" question adequately. The term "top speed" is largely irrelevant as it all depends upon, amongst many other things, drag. The more you carry outside/hang off the ac, the slower it is. F3's were lucky in that they flew around without fuel tanks or ECM most of the time and whilst this limited their fuel, they could still fly fooooooking quick when they wanted. On the GR1, because we always had tanks and ECM fitted (in a war, we'd be going a lot further into badlands), we had quite limiting speed limits on the stores we carried. Occasionally you could fly an air test clean and I once tried an 'acceleration test' downwind at the range at Capa Frasca (Deci). 300kts to 600kts in 21 secs, carrying CBLS though so still quite draggy. I was quite impressed with that and she was still pulling like a train at 600. Also saw 590kts in dry power at low level with tanks, ecm & CBLS....forgot to set the autothrottle and got distracted.
Ac with the smaller (subsonic) fuel tanks had a tendency to.....errr.....step sideways when you went a little too quick.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 513
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From: UK and where I'm sent!
If you're 'bounced' and your life depends on it, you'd ditch everything whether it's empty or full! Better to bring home a serviceable a/c and crew than have the whole lot shot down and destroyed. In most circumstances anyway. It's not an automatic reation to being targeted, of course, but when the chips are down...
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 397
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From: Over the hill (and far away)
JaJ
Are you a former OC II(AC)? He also dumped some big jugs (near the Syrian S60 battery that was adjacent to our usual low level entry to recce routes - jolly good confirmation of the RHWR serviceability).
M2
Don't forget 'knickers'.
Are you a former OC II(AC)? He also dumped some big jugs (near the Syrian S60 battery that was adjacent to our usual low level entry to recce routes - jolly good confirmation of the RHWR serviceability).
M2
Don't forget 'knickers'.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 573
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From: England
I remember a TTTE machine sat on its tail at Cottesmore when the ex F-4 pilot, having been kept holding on the threshold for a while and then being cleared to depart, rocked the throttles outboard and powered up, seeing sky instead of runway and going nowhere. Early 80's.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,340
Likes: 112
From: UK
JaJ
Reference the F3 flying clean or with stores. With 2x winders and 2x skyflash and 2x Big Tanks, I can confirm that the jet would do well over 700kts at low level (I know, RtS and all that ). As I said, without tanks and with similar weapons 800kts+ is not difficult - the old HUD used to stop at 999 as well
Jack
750IAS at 50,000ft was the supposed maximum for the F3 from the release to service - that's about 1250kts TAS or 1,400mph depending on the OAT. You needed to throw fuel out of the back at 700kgs per minute to get there and so you wouldn't be doing it for long but it gave your missiles a hell of an extra reach (roughly 50-70% longer).
And before the "beadwindow" police get on their outrage high horse, the F3 retired this year from operational service and I don't see us breaking the half a dozen out of the museums just yet (the rest were broken up and robbed for useful spares for GR4s under "reduce to produce" at RAF Leeming
)
LJ
Reference the F3 flying clean or with stores. With 2x winders and 2x skyflash and 2x Big Tanks, I can confirm that the jet would do well over 700kts at low level (I know, RtS and all that
). As I said, without tanks and with similar weapons 800kts+ is not difficult - the old HUD used to stop at 999 as well Jack
750IAS at 50,000ft was the supposed maximum for the F3 from the release to service - that's about 1250kts TAS or 1,400mph depending on the OAT. You needed to throw fuel out of the back at 700kgs per minute to get there and so you wouldn't be doing it for long but it gave your missiles a hell of an extra reach (roughly 50-70% longer).
And before the "beadwindow" police get on their outrage high horse, the F3 retired this year from operational service and I don't see us breaking the half a dozen out of the museums just yet (the rest were broken up and robbed for useful spares for GR4s under "reduce to produce" at RAF Leeming
)LJ
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 543
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From: BOQ
750IAS at 50,000ft was the supposed maximum for the F3 from the release to service - that's about 1250kts TAS
edit: (BTW at 50K 1250 KTAS is 578 KCAS, Mach 2.18)
Last edited by OK465; 7th December 2011 at 22:20.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,340
Likes: 112
From: UK
OK465
Yup, you're right, I shouldn't have used an iPad app to work it out. Just remembered it was 750IAS or M2.2 for Vne whichever you got to first!
Oops!
Seem to remember now that M2.15 being about 600ish KIAS at approx 45kft.
It's been a few years...
LJ
Yup, you're right, I shouldn't have used an iPad app to work it out. Just remembered it was 750IAS or M2.2 for Vne whichever you got to first!
Oops!
Seem to remember now that M2.15 being about 600ish KIAS at approx 45kft.
It's been a few years...
LJ
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 45
From: front seat, facing forwards
Leon - I'm not envious...really. Only time we flew clean was air tests so no spare fuel for anything 'fun', or at least for a high speed run. The TTTE GR1's seemed to run into a brick wall somewhat below the F3's 
HTB - nope. I have never aspired to that rank.....well, maybe once, a loooong time ago. HTB....sounds familiar. Did you aid in the liberation of a certain piece of metal?
HTB - nope. I have never aspired to that rank.....well, maybe once, a loooong time ago. HTB....sounds familiar. Did you aid in the liberation of a certain piece of metal?
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 397
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From: Over the hill (and far away)
JaJ
Yep (but managed to avoid the embarrassment of returning it), and a piece of Kubelwagen (sort of German jeep), mudguard, I think, and a little bomb body that was being used as an ashtray in a boxhead sqn crewroom (I only helped the real miscreant through the window, being a bit large to squeeze through myself). Oh when the saints...blah, blah, blah...
Mister B
Yep (but managed to avoid the embarrassment of returning it), and a piece of Kubelwagen (sort of German jeep), mudguard, I think, and a little bomb body that was being used as an ashtray in a boxhead sqn crewroom (I only helped the real miscreant through the window, being a bit large to squeeze through myself). Oh when the saints...blah, blah, blah...
Mister B
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,609
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From: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Good stuff!
Remember the Jerry ADR's going off in the rects hangers at Cott, first water ingress into the impact switches then there was the old "what's this bump here for" syndrome...
Only recently found out the old warhorse never has a thermal limit either
Remember the Jerry ADR's going off in the rects hangers at Cott, first water ingress into the impact switches then there was the old "what's this bump here for" syndrome...
Only recently found out the old warhorse never has a thermal limit either