Typhoon supply chain under scrutiny?
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
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Typhoon supply chain under scrutiny?
Well, that's if you regard the Daily Fail as "scrutiny".
Grounded! Almost half of RAF's Typhoon jets unable to fly because they don't have the spare parts to fix them | Mail Online
The comment that caught my eye was at the end of the article, where an MoD spokesman said "it was 'perfectly normal' for such a high proportion of jets to be grounded at any one time. This was because of the level of sophistication in their systems."
So is he saying you can't have many serviceable airplanes because it's complicated? Interesting theory.
Grounded! Almost half of RAF's Typhoon jets unable to fly because they don't have the spare parts to fix them | Mail Online
The comment that caught my eye was at the end of the article, where an MoD spokesman said "it was 'perfectly normal' for such a high proportion of jets to be grounded at any one time. This was because of the level of sophistication in their systems."
So is he saying you can't have many serviceable airplanes because it's complicated? Interesting theory.
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In a previous job I was brought to book by the engineering boss for trying to field too many serviceable Lynx. Thats when I found out the budget only allowed for 66% to be serviceable during 'peacetime' tasking. Not sure how it's done these days, but perhaps that story is spot on.
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Two, you are in! Well spotted and thanks for the post. I have to say, having been involved in this project for quite a while, I'm not in the least bit surprised. In fact, (BIG HEAD ON FOR A MOMENT) I bloody told them so. (BIG HEAD OFF AGAIN - for now).
Now, about this (in the article):
Conservative MP Chris Heaton-Harris said: 'It suggests that, yet again, the MoD signed contracts that were not good value for money.
Many was the time when several people (way above my pay grade) tried to improve/scrap/look elsewhere/etc, but were told they had to stick with Eurofighter (as it was then) no matter what. Where do you think most of the defence budget went all those years?
And this. We tried to set milestones so that a certain British defence manufacturer would only get paid as they delivered and as they acheived each stage of development/production. But, no! The Mod had to keep paying them regardless of acheivement because they couldn't afford to keep going and we couldn't 'punish' them for lack of acheivement.
Anyway, when did we ever get a logistics contract right? Especially when we're asked to save 10% a year?
Goodness, what a rant. Sorry.
Now, about this (in the article):
Conservative MP Chris Heaton-Harris said: 'It suggests that, yet again, the MoD signed contracts that were not good value for money.
Many was the time when several people (way above my pay grade) tried to improve/scrap/look elsewhere/etc, but were told they had to stick with Eurofighter (as it was then) no matter what. Where do you think most of the defence budget went all those years?
And this. We tried to set milestones so that a certain British defence manufacturer would only get paid as they delivered and as they acheived each stage of development/production. But, no! The Mod had to keep paying them regardless of acheivement because they couldn't afford to keep going and we couldn't 'punish' them for lack of acheivement.
Anyway, when did we ever get a logistics contract right? Especially when we're asked to save 10% a year?
Goodness, what a rant. Sorry.
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So is he saying you can't have many serviceable airplanes because it's complicated? Interesting theory.
Buy 60
Plan as 50
Brief as 40
Walk as 30
Start as 20
Taxi as 10
None in the air.
I suspect you might, M2. It'll be good for you. Not quite sure how the shambles that the project was is entirely relevant to the spares issue. Maybe it's a cntinuation of the same thing - care to explain?
The spares of major items issue was the same with F4 and F3, as you remember. Radar packs moving from jet to jet. Admittedly the F3 suffered because all the spares were going to a certain oil-rich customer, but we still had to rob aircraft the whole time. Why should this be any different when cash is (supposedly) even tighter?
I think we know this would happen. No suprises here.
The spares of major items issue was the same with F4 and F3, as you remember. Radar packs moving from jet to jet. Admittedly the F3 suffered because all the spares were going to a certain oil-rich customer, but we still had to rob aircraft the whole time. Why should this be any different when cash is (supposedly) even tighter?
I think we know this would happen. No suprises here.
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Courtney, that's true, but it still doesn't excuse getting all so badly wrong again. I seem to remember everyone proclaiming how we weren't going to let it go so wrong. Why didn't the MoD guys listen to themselves?
P.S. I think I know the answer.
P.S. I think I know the answer.
Don't get me wrong, there were some really top people in that project. I mean TOP PEOPLE. But seemingly powerless to fight off the continual cost restraints, politics and red tape that kept on scuppering every stage of the programme.
Personally, I really enjoyed my involvement in it, but it was probably the most frustrating time of my life. So still not surprised this has happened.
Personally, I really enjoyed my involvement in it, but it was probably the most frustrating time of my life. So still not surprised this has happened.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
"Almost half"
Buy 7 jets, have one in deep maintenance. Have another in routine maintenance. Have one US so only almost half are available for flying.
Sounds pretty normal.
Buy 7 jets, have one in deep maintenance. Have another in routine maintenance. Have one US so only almost half are available for flying.
Sounds pretty normal.
Mach Two, one understand that a certain ex-Flt Cdt J St*r**p decided that budgeting 'at risk' for TypHoon spares would be A Good Thing? Or so an ex-VSO told me.....
Will Questions be Asked, one wonders?
Will Questions be Asked, one wonders?
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BEagle, you have read my mind. The "at risk" rubbish went on and on and it never ceased to amaze me that no one ever questioned it.
Now, I worked with a lot of people, as I know you will have done, that explained that it was the only way they could keep projects alive and "moving forward" within budget restrains. Hence the "black hole" in MoD spending. Was it inexcusable or were people just trying to live up to the expectasions of financial constraints AND achieving success for their programmes?
Having seen both sides of the coin, I really don't know how to answer that one. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Now, I worked with a lot of people, as I know you will have done, that explained that it was the only way they could keep projects alive and "moving forward" within budget restrains. Hence the "black hole" in MoD spending. Was it inexcusable or were people just trying to live up to the expectasions of financial constraints AND achieving success for their programmes?
Having seen both sides of the coin, I really don't know how to answer that one. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Perhaps some sycophantic Koalas were eager to smile at their superiors, so adopted a policy which, outwardly, seemed to keep the project rolling along.
Whereas in fact they were trusting in 'NIMTS'. Not In My Tour Syndrome - the policy of ensuring that the poo resulting from his policies wouldn't descend until after the sycophant had left office, probably on promotion.
Which puts me in mind of the ridiculous FM-immunity saga. European requirements were such that after a certain date, all our VHF radios (VHF RT, VOR, ILS) had to meet the new standards. As the date approached (and having had to update the flying club's radios....), I asked the IPT what was being done for HM's mighty FunBus fleet to meet both FM-immunity and 8.33 Khz requirements. He'd no idea what I was talking about, then did some digging and found the requirement buried deep in the files of a predecessor. So for several months we were unable to meet international requirements. New radios (utterly dreadful things) did eventually appear - but what a procurement farce. It had been the same when I'd raised the point about the 137 MHz extension a few years earlier and we'd been non-compliant for several months.
Whereas in fact they were trusting in 'NIMTS'. Not In My Tour Syndrome - the policy of ensuring that the poo resulting from his policies wouldn't descend until after the sycophant had left office, probably on promotion.
Which puts me in mind of the ridiculous FM-immunity saga. European requirements were such that after a certain date, all our VHF radios (VHF RT, VOR, ILS) had to meet the new standards. As the date approached (and having had to update the flying club's radios....), I asked the IPT what was being done for HM's mighty FunBus fleet to meet both FM-immunity and 8.33 Khz requirements. He'd no idea what I was talking about, then did some digging and found the requirement buried deep in the files of a predecessor. So for several months we were unable to meet international requirements. New radios (utterly dreadful things) did eventually appear - but what a procurement farce. It had been the same when I'd raised the point about the 137 MHz extension a few years earlier and we'd been non-compliant for several months.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BEagle, the same at Coningsby. I was SNavO and was browsing throught the pink and yellow leaflets. Found the .25 one and berated my clerk for just filing everything in the NFI file. Seemed that in the absence of my predessor no one had ever read them.
Went to OC EES, same blank look. He promised to look in to it, eventually came back as said it was in hand - in hand with days to go!
Went to OC EES, same blank look. He promised to look in to it, eventually came back as said it was in hand - in hand with days to go!
Some of these comments seem, perhaps indirectly, to back up a theory I've pondered for a while:
Would procurement be such a mess if people at the top were responsible for projects for longer - maybe even right from the beginning up to the point whereby it's received its RTS?
As an outsider looking in, it seems that every time the reins are handed over the goalposts get moved, leading to inevitable cost and time overruns, which then get exacerbated further another few years down the line. Of course, some of these goalpost moves could still happen (real world changes etc) and it probably wouldn't help if the right appointment wasn't made to begin with, but surely we'd be in a far better position than we currently are?
Would procurement be such a mess if people at the top were responsible for projects for longer - maybe even right from the beginning up to the point whereby it's received its RTS?
As an outsider looking in, it seems that every time the reins are handed over the goalposts get moved, leading to inevitable cost and time overruns, which then get exacerbated further another few years down the line. Of course, some of these goalpost moves could still happen (real world changes etc) and it probably wouldn't help if the right appointment wasn't made to begin with, but surely we'd be in a far better position than we currently are?
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Yes, Karl. It's a theory I too have pondered for many years. In fact, I think the same goes for a lot of posts in the MoD.
As BEagle and others have said, people stay just long enough to tick the boxes for promotion and then move on before they've really acheived anything. Even if the next guy hits the ground running, each handover results in disruption and some of the "too difficult" stuff getting quietly dropped.
Of course, who would want to be in an IPT for 10 years?
As BEagle and others have said, people stay just long enough to tick the boxes for promotion and then move on before they've really acheived anything. Even if the next guy hits the ground running, each handover results in disruption and some of the "too difficult" stuff getting quietly dropped.
Of course, who would want to be in an IPT for 10 years?
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One thing would concentrate minds on such matters - Accountability declared and enforced; notwithstanding that persons may have moved on or even retired. However, chances of that happening almost zero of course !
lm
lm
Accountability? Are you mad? That's the whole point of getting posted out of a job. Good grief, if we were all held accountable for our actions, everyone would have to do it properly and stop sloping it over to the next guy.
It's thinking like that that causes all sorts of problems. Now stop rocking the boat LM!
It's thinking like that that causes all sorts of problems. Now stop rocking the boat LM!
I ran into a bloke from FMV the other day who had been on the Gripen program since it started. There's a lesson there.
And if you think the 'Phoon situation is bad, you haven't looked at F-22 lately. Lots of ten-digit numbers between now and 2020, for two new weapon integrations, two new-weapon-variant integrations, no HMD and no way to communicate with anything other than another F-22 except voice radio.
And only 80-some of the 187 jets ordered will ever be full capability...
//weeps softly, bangs head on desk
And if you think the 'Phoon situation is bad, you haven't looked at F-22 lately. Lots of ten-digit numbers between now and 2020, for two new weapon integrations, two new-weapon-variant integrations, no HMD and no way to communicate with anything other than another F-22 except voice radio.
And only 80-some of the 187 jets ordered will ever be full capability...
//weeps softly, bangs head on desk