16% pay cut over 5 years!
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I believe the UK has to borrow £127bn this year just to pay existing bills, hence why we've now got a 1% pay rise cap for 2 years on top of the 2 year pay freeze. If you think its grim now wait for the eurozone to implode and see the massive economic hit we'll take as a result. I'm seriously thinking about emigrating, I've just checked I can get a visa to OZ, just need to persuade the wife, sell the house and find a job in OZ.
Ahh well at least the airlines are recruiting... FFS. Not so sure who is flying though.
Ahh well at least the airlines are recruiting... FFS. Not so sure who is flying though.
Avoid imitations
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I'm ex mil too.
Try not to feel too hard done by. It's hard times out here, too.
In the last five years as civvy aircrew I've had only one pay rise and I had to fight hard to get it. A grand total of 3%, or three-fifths of a percent per year.
Note that the last five years supposedly included some of the "boom" times before the more recent "bust".
Try not to feel too hard done by. It's hard times out here, too.
In the last five years as civvy aircrew I've had only one pay rise and I had to fight hard to get it. A grand total of 3%, or three-fifths of a percent per year.
Note that the last five years supposedly included some of the "boom" times before the more recent "bust".
Avoid imitations
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So far Gordon's been half correct. At least about "no more boom" 
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Speaking of boom and bust, someone elsewhere posted this laymans description of the EU Greek bailout which I thought read well lol..
Nato's **** everyone off month - Topic
ah yes ... the EU
... it is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit. On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel. The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna. The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit. The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note. The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the Greek bailout package works.
... it is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit. On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel. The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna. The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit. The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note. The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town. No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.
And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the Greek bailout package works.
Nato's **** everyone off month - Topic
Last edited by NutLoose; 29th Nov 2011 at 21:21.
I recall the £4 a week rise in the mid 70s. We fell further and further behind eg Underground Guards, but Maggie made all well within days of victory in the election! Perhaps similar good news in 2015? Meantime, I could go on about my CPI linked pension but I think I'd rather reflect on 34 fantastic years which never seemed like working!
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Nutloose
Awesome....but I think you will find that is pretty good description of how the entire global economy works.
+1 
Take it you didn't watch the prog last week about all the Brits coming back from Oz then?
And on a serious note from someone that has been there and done that. If you are in the mob and have a job (and still need a salary)...suck it up and stay in, unless you are coming out with a cast iron promise of work. As a number of ppruners have pointed out, if you think your terms and conditions are suffering, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Awesome....but I think you will find that is pretty good description of how the entire global economy works.
Meantime, I could go on about my CPI linked pension but I think I'd rather reflect on 34 fantastic years which never seemed like working!
I've just checked I can get a visa to OZ, just need to persuade the wife, sell the house and find a job in OZ.
And on a serious note from someone that has been there and done that. If you are in the mob and have a job (and still need a salary)...suck it up and stay in, unless you are coming out with a cast iron promise of work. As a number of ppruners have pointed out, if you think your terms and conditions are suffering, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Last edited by The Old Fat One; 29th Nov 2011 at 21:20.
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Ahh well at least the airlines are recruiting...
I suppose that 1% of a lot is a lot
and 1% of sweet FA is... ergh ..sweet FA.
My point is that having bitten the zero pay rise over 2 years whilst all bills sky rocket, especially fuel as despite a briefing given by Manning several years ago concerning geographical stability, many, many servicemen are forced to drive long distances to maintain family ties. ....and rising fuel costs added to deleted routine claims and allowances are seeing quality of life dissappear down the pan. PC Plod and my CS friends still get pretty awesome allowances including good hire cars and the best hotels without the subsequent scrutiny that makes you feel like a thief.
For those that work for what they earn
Respect For most of us the can-do attitude prevails, but for how long?
Avoid imitations
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For most of us the can-do attitude prevails, but for how long?
Then you will do it all over again, but as a civvy. If you want to keep a job, that is. It's an employers' market out here, too, don't forget.
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As has been said, its not a bunch of roses outside at the moment. I've taken an effective pay cut of 25% in the last 2 years just to stay employed and I can't remember the last time my wife had a pay rise. I'm amazed at the public sector being so out of touch with reality and going on strike today. I am sympathetic that they are facing difficult times, we all are, but there is no money left, period. It's tough for everyone right now.
Investment banking
"...another hedge fund manager explained Icelandic banking to me this way: you have a dog, and I have a cat. We agree that each is worth a billion dollars. You sell me the dog for a billion, and I sell you the cat for a billion. Now we are no longer pet owners but Icelandic banks with a billion dollars in new assets."
Michael Lewis author of:-
Liar's Poker - His experiences as a bonds salesman around the mid eighties
The Big Short - The 2007/8 banking crisis - people who saw it coming.
Boomerang - Not read it YET
Eye opening books from an (ex) insider.
Michael Lewis author of:-
Liar's Poker - His experiences as a bonds salesman around the mid eighties
The Big Short - The 2007/8 banking crisis - people who saw it coming.
Boomerang - Not read it YET
Eye opening books from an (ex) insider.
I am sympathetic that they are facing difficult times, we all are, but there is no money left, period
So assuming it is a zero sum game and we have lost all our money, where is it now? There must be someone sitting on a tidy sum somewhere. And if we have lost it all on the back of a excessive debt burden, then does that not implicate those financial institutions that packaged the money and sold it on as an asset / lent it out as now benefiting in the form of our sky high deficit and debt repayments? And are these financial institutions not the ones we bailed out in the first place?
Or am I being thick and at the state / national level money, debt etc is actually more conceptual and ethereal rather than the cold hard cash I hand over every time I go to the pub?
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There will no doubt be a hundred different places the money went but lots of ordinary folk will have sold property/business's etc to folk who had borrowed the money from the bank. When the mortgage cannot be paid or the business goes belly up the bank has no way to recover the money.
Whilst we are all quick to blame the banks and yes they should have been smarter about who they lent to there are lots of ordinary folk who have had a finger in the current problem.
Whilst we are all quick to blame the banks and yes they should have been smarter about who they lent to there are lots of ordinary folk who have had a finger in the current problem.
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Or am I being thick and at the state / national level money, debt etc is actually more conceptual and ethereal rather than the cold hard cash I hand over every time I go to the pub?
The Daily Mash has a good article today, suggesting that we scrap this economy and give everybody 5 grand to start a new one.
The Daily Mash
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You can't uncreate money, once it's in the system, it's in the system. Surely what changes is who has it - is the financial system not a zero-sum game?
Someone borrows some money to buy something (like a house or a business or a dog).
The lender sees that the house etc ain't worth the money they just loaned on it and the borrower don't seem that likely to repay it, so they think..."hhmmm risky". So they chop up the debt and sell it on at a discount.
And the person that buys the discounted debt thinks..."hhmmm risky". So they chop up the debt and sell it on at a discount.
Rinse and repeat several billion times.
And everybody employs loads of clever accountants to do clever things to balance sheets to show everybody has sh1tloads of collateral. And auditors turn a blind eye because...err nobody is sure why yet? Maybe auditors serve no earthly function...discuss? And the clever accoutants pay the *ankers lots of real dosh.
All is well until one day somebody breaks the chain and wants their money back...and, it does not exist. It never did, because all the assets have been "over leveraged". And then everybody wants their money back and all the assets (even the good ones) are now over valued.
Rinse and repeat several billion times.
And that was how funny money was created and removed. The problem is not the removal of the funny money. The problem is the legacy of vastly over- inflated asset values (caused by funny money) which no longer hold the positive equity needed to support the huge debt burden associated with them.
Yes, a good description. Here's some food for thought....
Money = debt. All the money that exists in the world has been created by the central banks as debt. So, it is all due to be repaid with interest, but no extra money is created to pay that inteerest. That is the basis of our economic system, there will undoubtedly be losers but somebody gains whenever somebody loses. The clever folks are those who recognise how to exploit this fundamantal truth.
Fractional reserve banking. Banks are allowed to loan more money than they actually have. Many of us have been fed the lie that we get interest as a reward for our money being loaned by the banks, not so. This is a safety net which permits 'lines of credit' to be created against a % of real money in the vault or real assets. In the crisis that started a few years ago, where blame was placed on the risky practices of sub prime lenders, it was really fractional reserve lending that caused the collapse. It is a house of cards at the best of times, but engineered to ensure that those at the top don't lose.
So far as the public purse is concerned, we pay taxes to cover the interest on the borrowing. The loans are repaid by maturing bonds. That is the weak point, when the bonds don't mature as hoped, it becomes necessary to refinance the borrowing and the costs increase. It is all a gamble that is dependent on continued GDP growth. Or, like I said, it is a house of cards.
Every time the house of cards collapses, some people get rich because they acquire the assets of victims of a system that is designed to fail.
As has been alluded to on here, the money doesn't exist. This is increasingly so in the digital age.
A very good five part cartoon film explanation is on youtube. Just do a search: Money as debt.
Money = debt. All the money that exists in the world has been created by the central banks as debt. So, it is all due to be repaid with interest, but no extra money is created to pay that inteerest. That is the basis of our economic system, there will undoubtedly be losers but somebody gains whenever somebody loses. The clever folks are those who recognise how to exploit this fundamantal truth.
Fractional reserve banking. Banks are allowed to loan more money than they actually have. Many of us have been fed the lie that we get interest as a reward for our money being loaned by the banks, not so. This is a safety net which permits 'lines of credit' to be created against a % of real money in the vault or real assets. In the crisis that started a few years ago, where blame was placed on the risky practices of sub prime lenders, it was really fractional reserve lending that caused the collapse. It is a house of cards at the best of times, but engineered to ensure that those at the top don't lose.
So far as the public purse is concerned, we pay taxes to cover the interest on the borrowing. The loans are repaid by maturing bonds. That is the weak point, when the bonds don't mature as hoped, it becomes necessary to refinance the borrowing and the costs increase. It is all a gamble that is dependent on continued GDP growth. Or, like I said, it is a house of cards.
Every time the house of cards collapses, some people get rich because they acquire the assets of victims of a system that is designed to fail.
As has been alluded to on here, the money doesn't exist. This is increasingly so in the digital age.
A very good five part cartoon film explanation is on youtube. Just do a search: Money as debt.