AIRTANKER
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Runaway Gun:
That was, of course, an incident involving a K model Hercules (I know, they all look the same......) which, rather interestingly given the discussion of this topic, had a 4 person flight deck. The extra 2 people didn't prevent the front pair from landing with the wheels up but a modern GCAS system, of the type found on 2 man flight decks, normally does.
But of course I'll have to lift the undercarriage lever for him...
FIGJAM
Don't worry, I'm not a Fighter Jock, I was simply illustrating that just because you might know your own job and can easily brag about how great you are at it, doesn't mean that you know how much more difficult it is to do than someone else's. I'm sure you make your job look easy and produce terrific results, just as the tanker boys do.
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D-IFF,
Vocab failure on my part! I was using KC30 and Voyager interchangeably. I of course was referring to Voyager the whole time.
Runaway Gun,
I think you've got me all wrong. I am in no way trying to big up J-pilots or their respective skills or egos or demean any other aircrew.
The fact that both Voyager and J pilots would come from the same pool of people illustrates my point that perhaps 2 pilots would be able to operate the aircraft without the need for extra flight deck crew, based on the example I gave.
We're all friends here!
Vocab failure on my part! I was using KC30 and Voyager interchangeably. I of course was referring to Voyager the whole time.
Runaway Gun,
I think you've got me all wrong. I am in no way trying to big up J-pilots or their respective skills or egos or demean any other aircrew.
The fact that both Voyager and J pilots would come from the same pool of people illustrates my point that perhaps 2 pilots would be able to operate the aircraft without the need for extra flight deck crew, based on the example I gave.
We're all friends here!
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According to vacancies for Dispatchers and Cabin Crew plus other roles on their website its looking like April 2012. Won't hold my breath though i'm sure the Tristars can hold out for longer!!
Arrival of a Voyager at Brize Norton on the last working day of 2011 would be somewhat reminiscent of the desperation of the Soviet Union when it managed to rush the Tu-144 into the air on 31 Dec 1968 'the year before Concorde'....
I suppose it'd allow ATr to claim that the aircraft was delivered 'on time' at Brize - i.e. in late 2011...
But as to whether or not the RAF has accepted it from ATr; well, that would be a somewhat different question!
When the first VC10Ks arrived at Brize in 1983, they too were pristine - and stayed that way for quite some time before they had the usual grubby handprints in the cabin and DMS shoe scrapes all over the exterior fleet embodied by lazy lineys. Which was a great shame as the first 101 Sqn GEs used to keep 'their' aircraft looking immaculate inside and out.
Perhaps ATr will insist on higher standards of aircraft husbandry than the usual RAF filth, grime and bodge tape standard.
I suppose it'd allow ATr to claim that the aircraft was delivered 'on time' at Brize - i.e. in late 2011...
But as to whether or not the RAF has accepted it from ATr; well, that would be a somewhat different question!
When the first VC10Ks arrived at Brize in 1983, they too were pristine - and stayed that way for quite some time before they had the usual grubby handprints in the cabin and DMS shoe scrapes all over the exterior fleet embodied by lazy lineys. Which was a great shame as the first 101 Sqn GEs used to keep 'their' aircraft looking immaculate inside and out.
Perhaps ATr will insist on higher standards of aircraft husbandry than the usual RAF filth, grime and bodge tape standard.
Beags
That supposes that there are actually any of those lazy lineys left - a bit thin on the ground these days (lazy or not)!
Anyway, won't they be lazy EASA145 fitters?
LJ
That supposes that there are actually any of those lazy lineys left - a bit thin on the ground these days (lazy or not)!
Anyway, won't they be lazy EASA145 fitters?
LJ
Beagle
That's a cheap shot. Whilst SEngO on my last Sqn I recall coming in to the hangar at the weekend to find some of the lineys carrying out aircraft husbandry for no reason other than professional pride. No- one had told them to come in and they expected no recognition. I concur that this might not be representative but do not tar all ground crew with the same brush.
.Perhaps ATr will insist on higher standards of aircraft husbandry than the usual RAF filth, grime and bodge tape standard.
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I flew the VC10 on 101 in the early 90s for a number of years. I have flown the A330 for 10 years + and to be honest I don't see any major problems with the 2 man crew concept regarding fuel offload and navigation "outside of controlled airspace". The only puzzling thing now might be that RAS and RIS terminology has changed!
What made me laugh was that I called them up over a year ago, I told them I was ex RAF tankers, QFI, current A330 and TRI, they said please just apply through the online site and we will review your application. Well that was the last time I spoke to them and I won't be calling back ;-D
The HUGE amount of fuel and ability of the A330 compared to the VC10 will make the die hards one day realise that the new age of tanking is here and new technology will allow 2 crew to do it just as well. What makes me laugh is that the A330 is now "becoming" an old aeroplane in the civil world and as usual the RAF buy into "new" metal as it starts to become the old hack in the airliner fleets. You gotta laugh!!
What made me laugh was that I called them up over a year ago, I told them I was ex RAF tankers, QFI, current A330 and TRI, they said please just apply through the online site and we will review your application. Well that was the last time I spoke to them and I won't be calling back ;-D
The HUGE amount of fuel and ability of the A330 compared to the VC10 will make the die hards one day realise that the new age of tanking is here and new technology will allow 2 crew to do it just as well. What makes me laugh is that the A330 is now "becoming" an old aeroplane in the civil world and as usual the RAF buy into "new" metal as it starts to become the old hack in the airliner fleets. You gotta laugh!!
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EGoat Link to Voyager at Brize Norton.
Not sure exactly when it arrived though - I thought I saw some guff earlier in 2011 of it at BZ - perhaps it was just a photo op?
STH
Not sure exactly when it arrived though - I thought I saw some guff earlier in 2011 of it at BZ - perhaps it was just a photo op?
STH
"What makes me laugh is that the A330 is now "becoming" an old aeroplane in the civil world and as usual the RAF buy into "new" metal as it starts to become the old hack in the airliner fleets. You gotta laugh!! "
The way of the MOD Procurement "Systems" I fear. Buy Old 'bargains' and keep 'em going well beyond the rest of the world's economic write-off criterea.
The way of the MOD Procurement "Systems" I fear. Buy Old 'bargains' and keep 'em going well beyond the rest of the world's economic write-off criterea.
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" What makes me laugh is that the A330 is now "becoming" an old aeroplane in the civil world and as usual the RAF buy into "new" metal as it starts to become the old hack in the airliner fleets. You gotta laugh!!"
KC-46 anyone? Seems we're in good company. . . .
KC-46 anyone? Seems we're in good company. . . .
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"Not sure exactly when it arrived though - I thought I saw some guff earlier in 2011 of it at BZ - perhaps it was just a photo op?"
It arrived on the afternoon of 21st December.
It arrived on the afternoon of 21st December.
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I was pretty sure I hadn't imagined it:
AirTanker welcomes the Voyager aircraft to RAF Brize Norton « AirTanker
I guess this was just a flying visit then?
ISTR also seeing it on the MoD Web Site.
STH
AirTanker welcomes the Voyager aircraft to RAF Brize Norton « AirTanker
I guess this was just a flying visit then?
ISTR also seeing it on the MoD Web Site.
STH