Armed Forces pension
High Expect,
As redundancy wasn't offered/ available on Tranche 2, I sat with the Pension Claculator for about an hour working the various options, taking into account the pension changes on 1 Apr 15 for the exit point. My understanding is that you would have to PVR, 31 Mar 14 to be out by 1 Apr 15? Which is Plan B, unless they bring in tax on my gratuity!
I think these changes, and the subsequent affect they will have will push more into leaving!
As redundancy wasn't offered/ available on Tranche 2, I sat with the Pension Claculator for about an hour working the various options, taking into account the pension changes on 1 Apr 15 for the exit point. My understanding is that you would have to PVR, 31 Mar 14 to be out by 1 Apr 15? Which is Plan B, unless they bring in tax on my gratuity!
I think these changes, and the subsequent affect they will have will push more into leaving!
So being completely parochial, if I exercise my 16 point which is in Apr 14, I avoid the shenanigins over the Apr 15 pension changes but I may yet have my gratuity taxed by the robbing politicians? 
What he givveth with one hand, he taketh with another
What he givveth with one hand, he taketh with another
Join Date: Aug 2010
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A legal challenge ....
Before going down this route, you need to appreciate that you do not have many of the employment rights enjoyed by others (see our leaflet on the unique nature of military service at The Forces Pension Society ) and you could end up paying a legal time a lot of money to research and tell you that you haven't got a case. So far I have seen suggestions that you could claim unfair/constructive dismissal and ageism. Service personnel are specifically exempt from the Age Directive and cannot claim unfair or constructive dismissal because of the way their terms and conditions are composed.
You will probably not want to take my word for it. The Forces Pension Society knows of a retired RN Judge Advocate who now practices as a freelance Barrister and specialises in Armed Forces terms and conditions of service ( Coffin Mew - Page not found ) - might be worth running your case past him before embarking on huge expense. (There might be other such specialists available but we do not have their details.) You might also like to look at the CAFF UK website ( Combined Armed Forces Federation UK (CAFFUK) Official Web Site ) as they have experience of taking action against MOD on pensions issues.
The Forces Pension Society is monitoring the MOD's activities on the new pension scheme very closely. We are part of the consultative body for Armed Forces pensions and will do all in our power to get you the best possible deal within the Treasury's constraints. Keep an eye on our website ( The Forces Pension Society ) for further information.
You will probably not want to take my word for it. The Forces Pension Society knows of a retired RN Judge Advocate who now practices as a freelance Barrister and specialises in Armed Forces terms and conditions of service ( Coffin Mew - Page not found ) - might be worth running your case past him before embarking on huge expense. (There might be other such specialists available but we do not have their details.) You might also like to look at the CAFF UK website ( Combined Armed Forces Federation UK (CAFFUK) Official Web Site ) as they have experience of taking action against MOD on pensions issues.
The Forces Pension Society is monitoring the MOD's activities on the new pension scheme very closely. We are part of the consultative body for Armed Forces pensions and will do all in our power to get you the best possible deal within the Treasury's constraints. Keep an eye on our website ( The Forces Pension Society ) for further information.
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Thanks Voxpop. Whilst the legal route is not always the solution. I know I speak for more than just myself - I had a plan for the financial stability of both myself and my family. Admittedly this was not my plan when I signed up but it is now by far and away the most important factor. That plan has just been blown out of the water. I now may wish to look elsewhere to continue my life plan. The government have been kind enough to agree to preserving what I've earned up to 2015. But I do not wish to serve the remaining years under the new term they have offered. Leaving several years earlier, taking my considerable transferable skills elsewhere, will be considerably more financially lucrative than the scheme that is being forced upon me without my approval. What I'm saying is thank you very much I've enjoyed my time but you have now broken your end of the bargain so I wish to exercise my human right to bid you a good day. (this may or may not be my actual view) but I do not see why I have seemingly less rights than a prisoner.
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Having read the various DINs today, It seems I will be able to keep my IP point of 22 years service. However, the picture becomes hazy were those 22 years service are made up by some AFPS 75 service and some of FAFPS post 2015.
From what I can deduce from the example in the DIN I could leave at 43 at my 22 year point, but would only receive a pension based on my fourteen years AFPS 75 service to 2015.
It seems that whether the FAFPS years would add to my IP or be deferred until my normal retirement age is still being decided by the MoD.
Can anyone shed anymore light on this?
From what I can deduce from the example in the DIN I could leave at 43 at my 22 year point, but would only receive a pension based on my fourteen years AFPS 75 service to 2015.
It seems that whether the FAFPS years would add to my IP or be deferred until my normal retirement age is still being decided by the MoD.
Can anyone shed anymore light on this?
Join Date: Jun 2000
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ALMiW,
I fear there is no more light to shed...as the DIN says, the terms of FAFPS are still under discussion.
Many folk (me included) are waiting on the detail of FAFPS in order to see if it makes for a suitable through-life plan. I'm sitting on a PA offer the would begin 11 months prior to 2015 watershed so the bulk of my PA service would be under a scheme that is, as yet, TBD. I'd be very surprised is many of those currently being offered PA take it without these details...we'll just have to wait and see.
I fear there is no more light to shed...as the DIN says, the terms of FAFPS are still under discussion.
Many folk (me included) are waiting on the detail of FAFPS in order to see if it makes for a suitable through-life plan. I'm sitting on a PA offer the would begin 11 months prior to 2015 watershed so the bulk of my PA service would be under a scheme that is, as yet, TBD. I'd be very surprised is many of those currently being offered PA take it without these details...we'll just have to wait and see.
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UG,
To my mind, even if you ultimately ended up leaving, isn't it in your interest to take the PA offer now? For the following reasons:
1. If you were to PVR on day 1 of the new pension you would not lose your flying pay.
2. You would not suffer a reduced pension (PVR rate) on your pre 2015 pension as you did not PVR from it!
Or have I got this wrong?
Regards
RB
To my mind, even if you ultimately ended up leaving, isn't it in your interest to take the PA offer now? For the following reasons:
1. If you were to PVR on day 1 of the new pension you would not lose your flying pay.
2. You would not suffer a reduced pension (PVR rate) on your pre 2015 pension as you did not PVR from it!
Or have I got this wrong?
Regards
RB
Commutation
Having read the DIN it wasn't clear to me if the option to commute your pension in order to get an increased lump sum would still be available. Anyone brighter than me able to shed any light?
BV
BV
Don't see why not - as I read it, basically whatever you have accrued and the rights that go with it remain the same until the switch to the new scheme. This means that you can draw your IP from 16/38 as normal, and thus by inference should be able to commutate your gratuity as normal.
Whether or not HMT puts a spanner in the works to stop it or make it an unattractive proposition through changes to the tax regime is another matter entirely.
Whether or not HMT puts a spanner in the works to stop it or make it an unattractive proposition through changes to the tax regime is another matter entirely.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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. If you were to PVR on day 1 of the new pension you would not lose your flying pay.
2. You would not suffer a reduced pension (PVR rate) on your pre 2015 pension as you did not PVR from it!
2. You would not suffer a reduced pension (PVR rate) on your pre 2015 pension as you did not PVR from it!
My point is that by taking it, i'm still agreeing to a potential future set of terms that are unknown.
thus by inference should be able to commutate your gratuity as norma
The whole point is that there are just a few too many unknowns and potential scenarios without answer as yet...why not just wait until there are? The manning issues certainly aren't going away.
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We are waiting for confirmation on commutation but, as it is outside the pension scheme and it is a really a loan system, there is a good argument for it to be left alone. Keep an eye on our website - Forces Pension Society - Fighting for the forces and their families
Obviously, for those that don't make the grade to stay on AFPS 75, the ideal would be to take a forecast as of 31 Mar 15 as a base line? I know it early days yet, However, when are they likely to update the FPS Calculator to allow some kind of look/insight into what the AFPS15 is going to payout?
Join Date: Jul 2000
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I know a lot of people using the calculator now to take a reading of what they will get if they bang out in 15. Also what they would have got had AFPS 75 or 05 survived till retirement. That way when the new scheme comes out, they can see if they are being fleeced, by how much, and make an informed decision about financial planning for the future.
I hate to play devils advocate especially as I may well get fleeced too, but with the calculator(even given it is not 100% accurate), there is no excuse to not know what you will get on retirement from the mob, and therefore plan for it. Roll on the new deal, at least I will know where I stand and make the decision in the immortal style of a well known song by The Clash.
I hate to play devils advocate especially as I may well get fleeced too, but with the calculator(even given it is not 100% accurate), there is no excuse to not know what you will get on retirement from the mob, and therefore plan for it. Roll on the new deal, at least I will know where I stand and make the decision in the immortal style of a well known song by The Clash.
I was thinking more White Riot, English Civil War, Bankrobber or Know Your Rights.
Of course if you were being deeply unoriginal, you might think Should I Stay or Should I go
Of course if you were being deeply unoriginal, you might think Should I Stay or Should I go
