Old Large Bombers: Dive Bombing
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With the known unreliability of the Vulture engines fitted to the Manchester I doubt that any sane Pilot would even have considered initiating a dive bombing attack in that Aircraft. The first operational sortie by Manchesters was on 24-25 February 1941 and its final Bomber Command operation was 25-26 June 1942.
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Didn't the Pathfinders sometimes dive steeply with Lancasters or was it that they were approaching the target accurately at low level? (Can't find the book just now.)
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From Century of Flight
.... This created, by the time the Kammhuber Line was being approached, a mass of aircraft 112 km. (70 ml.) long and some 1,200 m. (4,000 ft.) deep, which, with any luck, completely overwhelmed the Kammhuber defensive box through which it flew. Air gunners had strict orders never to open fire unless attacked as a bomber was more likely to survive by evasion in the dark than by taking the offensive. If attacked, the corkscrew manoeuvre was the best tactic to employ; Martin Middlebrook relates how one German nigh fighter ace followed a corkscrewing Lancaster bomber for three quarters of an hour without once being able to get into a firing position.
.... This created, by the time the Kammhuber Line was being approached, a mass of aircraft 112 km. (70 ml.) long and some 1,200 m. (4,000 ft.) deep, which, with any luck, completely overwhelmed the Kammhuber defensive box through which it flew. Air gunners had strict orders never to open fire unless attacked as a bomber was more likely to survive by evasion in the dark than by taking the offensive. If attacked, the corkscrew manoeuvre was the best tactic to employ; Martin Middlebrook relates how one German nigh fighter ace followed a corkscrewing Lancaster bomber for three quarters of an hour without once being able to get into a firing position.
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Lancaster Corkscrew
I have found an interesting article on corkscrewing in a Lancaster; it is on our very own PPRuNe, from February 2007.
Click Here.
An interesting read - as is the link in the thread.
Click Here.
An interesting read - as is the link in the thread.
The German obsession with dive bombing after the success of the Ju87 in the Blitzkrieg era led the Luftwaffe to specify that the Heinkel 177 should be capable of dive bombing
However, one source talks of one airframe being seen with dive angles marked up on the canopy in 10 degree increments from 40-70 degrees of dive
1940 | 3422 | Flight Archive
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Off -topic, but were the remaining Manchesters scrapped completely or reworked as Lancasters?
Of interest(?). When 9 Sqn personnel arrived at Waddington to convert to the Lancaster in mid 1942, they carried out the majority of their training in Manchesters until more Lancasters became available. The Manchesters were used for practice bombing and gunnery training with the automatic gun-sight. I have not discovered whether any of these went on operations, but no Manchester losses are recorded for 9 Sqn as far as I am aware.
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Eventually 200 to 209 Manchesters entered service, before production ended in November 1941. The aircraft was withdrawnm from service June 1942.
193 were operational. Of the 78 aircraft lost, 45 were non-operational losses of which 30 involved engine failure. Later on in its life the Manchester became a fairly effective aircraft once issues with the Vulture engines were resolved.
A good link to read: - Lancaster History
193 were operational. Of the 78 aircraft lost, 45 were non-operational losses of which 30 involved engine failure. Later on in its life the Manchester became a fairly effective aircraft once issues with the Vulture engines were resolved.
A good link to read: - Lancaster History
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Eventually 200 to 209 Manchesters entered service, before production ended in November 1941. The aircraft was withdrawnm from service June 1942.
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Wensleydale,
The last operational trip utilising the Manchester was a bombing raid over Bremen on the 25th June 1942.
Are you sure 9 Sqn flew the Manchester? I know they flew Vickers Wellingtons (Feb 1939-Aug 1942) and that these were replaced by Lancasters in 1942. I have found reference to 9 Sqn using manchesters for trials in 1942 on one web site so far ( Here ). IX Squadron certainly did not use the Manchester in anger.
Interesting if IX Squadron did carry out trials on the Manchester. Would like to know more.
The last operational trip utilising the Manchester was a bombing raid over Bremen on the 25th June 1942.
Are you sure 9 Sqn flew the Manchester? I know they flew Vickers Wellingtons (Feb 1939-Aug 1942) and that these were replaced by Lancasters in 1942. I have found reference to 9 Sqn using manchesters for trials in 1942 on one web site so far ( Here ). IX Squadron certainly did not use the Manchester in anger.
Interesting if IX Squadron did carry out trials on the Manchester. Would like to know more.
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HVAL,
Sources are "For Faith and Freedom" by John Hamlin (History of Waddington) page 89:
" 9 Sqn moved on 7 August 1942 to Waddington..... Conversion on the new Lancaster began at once, though much training was carried out on the Manchester until enough Lancasters became available. By 20 Aug practice bombing details were being carried out in the Manchesters and air gunners being trained in the use of the automatic gunsight."
and "Bombers First and Last" by Gordon Thorburn (War history of 9 Sqn) Chapter 3 (page 94 in my copy)...
"Pilots began training by flying the Manchester, Bomb aiming had started to become a specialised trade and it was completely so by now with the new, and excellent, semi-automatic Mk 14 bombsight."
W
Sources are "For Faith and Freedom" by John Hamlin (History of Waddington) page 89:
" 9 Sqn moved on 7 August 1942 to Waddington..... Conversion on the new Lancaster began at once, though much training was carried out on the Manchester until enough Lancasters became available. By 20 Aug practice bombing details were being carried out in the Manchesters and air gunners being trained in the use of the automatic gunsight."
and "Bombers First and Last" by Gordon Thorburn (War history of 9 Sqn) Chapter 3 (page 94 in my copy)...
"Pilots began training by flying the Manchester, Bomb aiming had started to become a specialised trade and it was completely so by now with the new, and excellent, semi-automatic Mk 14 bombsight."
W
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@ Wensleydale,
Thank you for that, appreciated.
@ Vitesse,
Yes they were just about resolved. When the Vulture was cancelled there were no more losses than any other bomber for mechanical failures. The engine was still complex, but they worked. Rolls Royce, unfortunately, did not have the resources available to invest in the development of the Vulture engine when needed. Majority of work was being carried out on the Rolls Royce Merlin instead. Rolls Royce needed the Vulture team to assist in developing the Merlin, which was already a proven power source.
Thank you for that, appreciated.
@ Vitesse,
Were the issues with Vultures resolved?
