RAF Weston on the Green
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RAF Weston on the Green
RAF still operating (C130 dropping this morning) but RAF/MOD not renewed the lease on the civvy para club, with all the local talk & publicity about a new ECO town complex South of the M40 does this mean the end is in sight for WOTG ?? any info anyone ?. Regards, Paul H, Bicester.
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'Tis a long story.
Mil training in the Danger Area will continue as that is what it is for.
Adventure Training courses (i.e. sport parachuting for the military) has gone to other places.
Fun parachuting no longer available as the owners/operators couldn't wait any longer for the paperwork shufflers at Air to make a decision.
...All very puzzling...
G
Mil training in the Danger Area will continue as that is what it is for.
Adventure Training courses (i.e. sport parachuting for the military) has gone to other places.
Fun parachuting no longer available as the owners/operators couldn't wait any longer for the paperwork shufflers at Air to make a decision.
...All very puzzling...
G
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Actually down to one arrogant, self important, selfish and blatantly incompetent Wg Cdr is the reason that there is no longer any sport para happening at weekends.
He is proof that the latest redundancies have been targeted at the wrong people
He is proof that the latest redundancies have been targeted at the wrong people
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A real shame that a successful and popular club (and business) could not continue at Weston. Having done a static line course there in 1996, and then jumped there most weekends ever since it is frustrating to say the least that Skydive Weston had to fold. A previous poster has expressed a very direct view on one particular individual in the chain who many people hold directly responsible for this debacle and I know that that view is shared by others. Another previous poster commented that AT sports parachuting had been moved elsewhere (presumably Netheravon?). Is this true - I thought the ATF static line courses were still running.
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I am really sorry to hear this news. I spent many weekends down there para dropping. Great bunch of hooligans 
A statement:
Skydive Weston Closed until further notice | admin
A statement:
Skydive Weston Closed until further notice | admin
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As far as I am aware JSAT(W) is still conducting AT Sport Para courses. They are also still dropping mil para at WOTG. The only change is that the w/e sport para operation has been kicked into touch by said ahole Wg Cdr, who it has to be said hasn't changed since he was a Flt Lt OC ATF at WOTG and this is a general opinion not just my own. I await my ban for exercising my freedom of speech with baited breath 
In the years that I've used PPrune nothing has really got my back up more than this.
In the years that I've used PPrune nothing has really got my back up more than this.
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WOTG
Believe Skydive are operating from Hinton in the Hedges near Brackley, still no news re Oxford Gliding Club , Hercs still dropping late yesterday, Paul H.
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You believe wrongly, Skydive Hinton has no connection to Skydive Weston in any commercial sense. OGC have just had their lease at WOTG renewed and are continuing to operate.
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OGC have just had their lease at WOTG renewed
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Quite simply because of incompetence by some RAF Officers. They couldnt get their act together and actually save the MOD and most importantly RAF Weston on the Green / JSAT money. Skydive Weston offered up to £500,000 of income over the next 5 years but they said no.
They blindly gave the gliders a new 10 year lease, who dont contribute anything to JSAT or have offered any kind of income Thats no fault of the gliders who are a great bunch.
An obvious reason why the Defence Budget is in the state it is when you have incompetent Officers pretending they know how to control budgets!
As the RAF are the teachers of military parachuting, its quite bizarre they have no facility for their guys to do sport parachuting at weekends now, when the Army have 4.
Even the RAF Falcons had to go to a civilian centre to jump their own Charity tandems for the Parachute Jumping Instructors Benevolent Fund, as they were not permitted to do them at RAF Weston on the Green, No1 PTS own training drop zone!
As an RAF Officer said the other day "The RAF is coming to the end of its hundred year experiment"
They blindly gave the gliders a new 10 year lease, who dont contribute anything to JSAT or have offered any kind of income Thats no fault of the gliders who are a great bunch.
An obvious reason why the Defence Budget is in the state it is when you have incompetent Officers pretending they know how to control budgets!
As the RAF are the teachers of military parachuting, its quite bizarre they have no facility for their guys to do sport parachuting at weekends now, when the Army have 4.
Even the RAF Falcons had to go to a civilian centre to jump their own Charity tandems for the Parachute Jumping Instructors Benevolent Fund, as they were not permitted to do them at RAF Weston on the Green, No1 PTS own training drop zone!
As an RAF Officer said the other day "The RAF is coming to the end of its hundred year experiment"
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likestofly
Now that you've publicised it, I'm sure that the MOD financiers will start charging the Army for the privilage of using those 4 casual facilities - or even make some savings by disposing of them! Well done!
As the RAF are the teachers of military parachuting, its quite bizarre they have no facility for their guys to do sport parachuting at weekends now, when the Army have 4.
Likestofly
I think you have answered the question in your post. As the RAF Sports Parachuting Club it cannot make money - just like a Mess bar it has to be not for profit. It also has to run under a GAI with a Gp Capt or above as the Chairman. So if it was set up as a going concern, making £500k of profit over 5 years without investing that profit back into RAF Sports Parachuting for the Serviceman then it would be in breach of the arrangement for an encroachment on Crown Property.
However, it could pay the 'going rate' with MOD Wider Markets and make all the profit it liked. But that is not in the spirit of how Service Sports Associations are run and how best value is offered to Servicemen of any rank.
Finally, you mention JSAT. If there was any mixing of Public and Non-Public monies (not that I know that there was or was not) then that is an easy way to be "expelled" from any agreement to use Crown Property. A lot of the JSAT organisations have to be exceptionally careful of this.
Maybe the Army have been a bit more cognisant of these things?
LJ
I think you have answered the question in your post. As the RAF Sports Parachuting Club it cannot make money - just like a Mess bar it has to be not for profit. It also has to run under a GAI with a Gp Capt or above as the Chairman. So if it was set up as a going concern, making £500k of profit over 5 years without investing that profit back into RAF Sports Parachuting for the Serviceman then it would be in breach of the arrangement for an encroachment on Crown Property.
However, it could pay the 'going rate' with MOD Wider Markets and make all the profit it liked. But that is not in the spirit of how Service Sports Associations are run and how best value is offered to Servicemen of any rank.
Finally, you mention JSAT. If there was any mixing of Public and Non-Public monies (not that I know that there was or was not) then that is an easy way to be "expelled" from any agreement to use Crown Property. A lot of the JSAT organisations have to be exceptionally careful of this.
Maybe the Army have been a bit more cognisant of these things?
LJ
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Leon
I'm sorry but if you knew the setup at RAF WOTG and the relationship between JSAT(W), RAFSPA & Skydive Weston then you wouldn't have posted the above. It has always been complex and having been involved for almost 30 years I know of what I speak. This debacle is down to one corrupt serving person and he deserves to be hung out to dry because of it. If you need to know or are closely involved then you would know the name. Whilst you are quoting chapter and verse, the RAF has lost it's way as being the premier sports para drop zone for the benefit of ALL servicemen in the UK. This is not about profit, but ploughing money back into the equipment needed provide servicemen with a unique adventurous training opportunity. Now this money will have to found from the public purse and I think we all know where this will lead in the current climate. I wonder if you have any conception of the costs involved to provide sports para as adventure training, I would hazard it tops the scale on a cost per participant basis of any other JSAT activity.
I'm sorry but if you knew the setup at RAF WOTG and the relationship between JSAT(W), RAFSPA & Skydive Weston then you wouldn't have posted the above. It has always been complex and having been involved for almost 30 years I know of what I speak. This debacle is down to one corrupt serving person and he deserves to be hung out to dry because of it. If you need to know or are closely involved then you would know the name. Whilst you are quoting chapter and verse, the RAF has lost it's way as being the premier sports para drop zone for the benefit of ALL servicemen in the UK. This is not about profit, but ploughing money back into the equipment needed provide servicemen with a unique adventurous training opportunity. Now this money will have to found from the public purse and I think we all know where this will lead in the current climate. I wonder if you have any conception of the costs involved to provide sports para as adventure training, I would hazard it tops the scale on a cost per participant basis of any other JSAT activity.
TBT
You are right, I know not and I care not about the finer detail. I have no connection to WOTG. However, I do know that there are plenty of JSAT organisations that have similar large-scale budgets and manage to not mix public with non-public and keep it all above board; Hang-gliding at Crickhowell, Gliding at Halton and the Yacht Sailing mob.
From what you infer in your post surely someone cannot be completely culpable and the chairmen of the 3 organisations cannot have been completely blind to one individual, can they?
Anyway, it all sounds like a "done deal" now and so I guess we'll have to use Army facilities now if we want to jump out of serviceable aircraft as a hobby(why would you want to do that? I have no idea!).
LJ
You are right, I know not and I care not about the finer detail. I have no connection to WOTG. However, I do know that there are plenty of JSAT organisations that have similar large-scale budgets and manage to not mix public with non-public and keep it all above board; Hang-gliding at Crickhowell, Gliding at Halton and the Yacht Sailing mob.
From what you infer in your post surely someone cannot be completely culpable and the chairmen of the 3 organisations cannot have been completely blind to one individual, can they?
Anyway, it all sounds like a "done deal" now and so I guess we'll have to use Army facilities now if we want to jump out of serviceable aircraft as a hobby(why would you want to do that? I have no idea!).
LJ
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The RAF Sports Parachute Association has been in existence for many years but fundamentally changed in concept about 5/6 years ago. It is now like any other RAF sport association - funded by the RAF Sports Board focussing on development and in particular competing at the Inter Service Level. The Chairman is a wg cdr and the 'gp capt or higher' oversight is provided by a President. RAFSPA in its modern guise can seek (and is encouraged to do so by the Sports Board) sponsorship on top of its operating costs and equipment budget from Sports Board/Sports Lottery funding.
Under the 'old' system, public and non-public funded equiment were not properly seperated and it became very clear that this was unsustainable and would not stand scrutiny. Hence to the change.
Skydive Weston, a business and commercial entity, and the 'new' RAFSPA (operated by the RAF SPorts Board) were born out of the debacle that was weekend sports parachuting at Weston up until around 2006. That it has come to the present impasse is disgraceful and I agree totally with TTB's sentiments. Some Weston club jumpers do indeed continue to jump at Hinton (presumably because it is geographically convenient for them), but many others jump at other dropzones both in the UK and abroad.
I hope this sheds some light from the perspective of a recent ex-RAFSPA Chairman
Under the 'old' system, public and non-public funded equiment were not properly seperated and it became very clear that this was unsustainable and would not stand scrutiny. Hence to the change.
Skydive Weston, a business and commercial entity, and the 'new' RAFSPA (operated by the RAF SPorts Board) were born out of the debacle that was weekend sports parachuting at Weston up until around 2006. That it has come to the present impasse is disgraceful and I agree totally with TTB's sentiments. Some Weston club jumpers do indeed continue to jump at Hinton (presumably because it is geographically convenient for them), but many others jump at other dropzones both in the UK and abroad.
I hope this sheds some light from the perspective of a recent ex-RAFSPA Chairman
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TFFC, thankfully the Army have full support of their superiors and Defence Lands or DIO!and i know for sure that 2 of these centres put money back into the pot to support their own regiments involvement and promote the sport to service personnel. One has no JSAT money to fall back on but has a good business plan to operate a great centre without putting pressure on the already bursting defence budget.
Leon, all of Skydive Westons activities were under contract or lease that they had to bid for. The offer to support JSAT for 500k was to help the pot ( as such ) so public money didnt have to be used as Top Bunk Tester states. It would have been very simple to continue the centre as it was, whilst benefiting them at the same time without dipping further in the 'pot' and continuing supporting service personnel at weekends and during the week.
As Spectre 150 states,' its disgraceful' what has happened to RAF Weston on the Green and its once thriving community.
Leon, all of Skydive Westons activities were under contract or lease that they had to bid for. The offer to support JSAT for 500k was to help the pot ( as such ) so public money didnt have to be used as Top Bunk Tester states. It would have been very simple to continue the centre as it was, whilst benefiting them at the same time without dipping further in the 'pot' and continuing supporting service personnel at weekends and during the week.
As Spectre 150 states,' its disgraceful' what has happened to RAF Weston on the Green and its once thriving community.
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So maybe there is more to this than meets the eye!
Although the proposed eco-town at Weston Otmoor was de-selected a couple of years ago, the plans seem to indicate that it would have had a big impact on Weston-on-the-Green. Maybe the plan was just parked, and if planning regulations get changed...........
Budget 2011: new planning rules ease path for developers
Although the proposed eco-town at Weston Otmoor was de-selected a couple of years ago, the plans seem to indicate that it would have had a big impact on Weston-on-the-Green. Maybe the plan was just parked, and if planning regulations get changed...........
Budget 2011: new planning rules ease path for developers
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So maybe there is more to this than meets the eye!
Although the proposed eco-town at Weston Otmoor was de-selected a couple of years ago, the plans seem to indicate that it would have had a big impact on Weston-on-the-Green. Maybe the plan was just parked, and if planning regulations get changed...........
Last edited by Top Bunk Tester; 18th Nov 2011 at 14:03. Reason: Edited to include proof