Scottish Independence
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: France 46
Stuff
I am sorry but it is not I (nor any other Englishman, Irishman, Welshman or inhabitant of the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands) who does not understand the problem.
It is the people of Scotland who have been seduced by the rhetoric of the SNP.
Those Countries mentioned above are well aware that the UK (except probably Scotland) will all fight together to maintain the Democratic Society that is currently enjoyed by the British People.
It is NOT the English, Irish, Welsh, Manx or the inhabitants of the Channel Islands who are at fault here.
You want to live in a Socialist Regime run by Mr S - that is fine with me. Just don't come running to us in the UK when it all turns to worms.
Mr G Brown was far more competent that the current Leader of the SNP. Just remember what Mr G Brown did to the economy.
I am sorry but it is not I (nor any other Englishman, Irishman, Welshman or inhabitant of the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands) who does not understand the problem.
It is the people of Scotland who have been seduced by the rhetoric of the SNP.
Those Countries mentioned above are well aware that the UK (except probably Scotland) will all fight together to maintain the Democratic Society that is currently enjoyed by the British People.
It is NOT the English, Irish, Welsh, Manx or the inhabitants of the Channel Islands who are at fault here.
You want to live in a Socialist Regime run by Mr S - that is fine with me. Just don't come running to us in the UK when it all turns to worms.
Mr G Brown was far more competent that the current Leader of the SNP. Just remember what Mr G Brown did to the economy.
Last edited by cazatou; 26th January 2012 at 21:32.
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Stamford
Hang on a moment, I can't even understand where your rambling argument is going now.
Are you saying that the reason all Scots need to be fired from the UK military is that they won't fight to defend the democracy if the SNP manage to break the Union?
Are you saying that the reason all Scots need to be fired from the UK military is that they won't fight to defend the democracy if the SNP manage to break the Union?
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: UK
"It is the people of Scotland who have been seduced by the rhetoric of the SNP."
"It is NOT the English, Irish, Welsh, Manx or the inhabitants of the Channel Islands who are at fault here.
"It is quite simply - the SNP!!!!"
_____________________________________
No, No and No. To debate, review and take a decision to reform an agreement of union is an entierly legitimate democratic and indeed healthy activity for any part of any political union.
I'm no student of history but I do not beleive that the act of union was framed by the words "in perpetuity". Nor for that matter was our membership of the EU and the right to question and debate that union! If one debate is legitimate and healthy the other certainly is as well.
The Scots have not been seduced by any rhetoric - they will listen intelligently to the debate and ask some searching questions of both sides. Salmond's "milk and honey" nor Cameron's "we all benefit from the union" will not go without inquiry and call for further disclosure.
Above all it is certainly not "It is quite simply - the SNP!!!!". The Scots live and breath democracy, recall the Declaration of Abroath. I would argue that they are more tuned to the democratic process than many within the UK; it's Calvanistic, it is in their roots. Whatever the outcome the decision and consequences will be theirs alone and they are well aware of that. The debate that has just caught the attention of the UK media and Westminster politicians has been pondered and considered in detail by the Scots since the establishment of devolution over 10 years ago and earlier - it is certainly no longer an English/Scottish thing to them, in truth it never has been.
"It is NOT the English, Irish, Welsh, Manx or the inhabitants of the Channel Islands who are at fault here.
"It is quite simply - the SNP!!!!"
_____________________________________
No, No and No. To debate, review and take a decision to reform an agreement of union is an entierly legitimate democratic and indeed healthy activity for any part of any political union.
I'm no student of history but I do not beleive that the act of union was framed by the words "in perpetuity". Nor for that matter was our membership of the EU and the right to question and debate that union! If one debate is legitimate and healthy the other certainly is as well.
The Scots have not been seduced by any rhetoric - they will listen intelligently to the debate and ask some searching questions of both sides. Salmond's "milk and honey" nor Cameron's "we all benefit from the union" will not go without inquiry and call for further disclosure.
Above all it is certainly not "It is quite simply - the SNP!!!!". The Scots live and breath democracy, recall the Declaration of Abroath. I would argue that they are more tuned to the democratic process than many within the UK; it's Calvanistic, it is in their roots. Whatever the outcome the decision and consequences will be theirs alone and they are well aware of that. The debate that has just caught the attention of the UK media and Westminster politicians has been pondered and considered in detail by the Scots since the establishment of devolution over 10 years ago and earlier - it is certainly no longer an English/Scottish thing to them, in truth it never has been.
Last edited by TomJoad; 26th January 2012 at 21:24.
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Behind the picket fence
To join the British Army you must be either a British or Irish citizen or a citizen of a Commonwealth Country. You may also qualify if you are a British subject under the British Nationality Act of 1981.
I'm confused...
Everything I've read to date suggests an independent Scotland would retain the monarchy and as such join the Commonwealth of Nations.
Therefore as with the Irish, and citizens of Commonwealth countries, Scots could choose to apply to join either the UK Armed Forces or their own Defence Forces. Presumably those already serving with the UK Armed Forces could opt to remain or transfer.
How does that square with previous posts suggesting the contrary?
Furthermore, can anyone tell me how the following occurs re. the use of flags. Why the difference?
Scottish soldier's funeral - Scottish flag
Scottish soldier's funeral - British flag
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: UK
Sorry Abraham, I don't know how to do the quote thing yet.
"Furthermore, can anyone tell me how the following occurs re. the use of flags. Why the difference?"
Scottish soldier's funeral - Scottish flag
Scottish soldier's funeral - British flag
---------------------------------------
I suspect that the use of the Saltire there was simply a family decision and nothing to do with protocal and recived etiquette. The Scots tend to have a healthy respect for protocal rather than being overly bound by it.
"Furthermore, can anyone tell me how the following occurs re. the use of flags. Why the difference?"
Scottish soldier's funeral - Scottish flag
Scottish soldier's funeral - British flag
---------------------------------------
I suspect that the use of the Saltire there was simply a family decision and nothing to do with protocal and recived etiquette. The Scots tend to have a healthy respect for protocal rather than being overly bound by it.
Last edited by TomJoad; 26th January 2012 at 22:58.
Gentleman Aviator
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Teetering Towers - somewhere in the Shires
The UK needs Scotland in order to maintain a place at the top table of men's tennis. Go Murray
Murray winning = brave Brit
Murray losing = whinging Jock
....simples.
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From: Edinburgh and 3C
It is the people of Scotland who have been seduced by the rhetoric of the SNP.
And are you really suggesting that my uncles, both of whom served Queen and country with distinction and reached the rank of colonel should now be cast aside by the UK in their eighties simply because they were in the Scots Guards?
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From: Racedo blows goats
"Whatever the outcome the decision and consequences will be theirs alone and they are well aware of that."
Whether Scotland likes it or not, their secession from the union is not a matter for them alone as it affects all other parts. The debate should be across the union as should the referendum. Perhaps a 3rd question
Should Scotland as an unwilling partner be kept in the Union?
Whether Scotland likes it or not, their secession from the union is not a matter for them alone as it affects all other parts. The debate should be across the union as should the referendum. Perhaps a 3rd question
Should Scotland as an unwilling partner be kept in the Union?
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From: France 46
Avionker
How kind of you to draw attention to your total lack of awareness in respect of those who have Retired and opted to live elsewhere in the EU. I was a Pilot in the RAF for over 30 years and my Wife was a College Vice Principal who owned her own aircraft. Both of us are UK taxpayers as HMG reserves the right to tax "Government Pensions" in the UK no matter where in the World you are resident.
My Military and State Pensions and my Wife's Teachers and State Pensions are therefore Taxed in the UK - so I believe that I am perfectly at liberty to comment on matters that will have severe ramifications for the whole of the United Kingdom.
How kind of you to draw attention to your total lack of awareness in respect of those who have Retired and opted to live elsewhere in the EU. I was a Pilot in the RAF for over 30 years and my Wife was a College Vice Principal who owned her own aircraft. Both of us are UK taxpayers as HMG reserves the right to tax "Government Pensions" in the UK no matter where in the World you are resident.
My Military and State Pensions and my Wife's Teachers and State Pensions are therefore Taxed in the UK - so I believe that I am perfectly at liberty to comment on matters that will have severe ramifications for the whole of the United Kingdom.
Last edited by cazatou; 27th January 2012 at 12:56.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Peripatetic
No, No and No. To debate, review and take a decision to reform an agreement of union is an entierly legitimate democratic and indeed healthy activity for any part of any political union.
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Sweden
cazatou
Don't mention it.
I am well aware of the fact that UK citizens choose to live in various EU countries though, I am after all one of them. I am 100% Scottish by birth and I was an avionics technician in the RAF for 15 years, before PVR'ing. I owned my own car.
I served in the armed forces of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland just as you did. I will also be entitled to a pension, therefore I feel that I have just as much right to an opinion as you do.
Of course if there is a positive vote from the people of Scotland for independence, and you have your way, then my pension will not be paid by the UK despite my loyal service to it. So in summary my 15 years of service, including a 2 year tour of NI obviously count for nothing in your eyes.
Thank you for drawing attention to your apparent lack of respect for those with whom you served.
Don't mention it.
I am well aware of the fact that UK citizens choose to live in various EU countries though, I am after all one of them. I am 100% Scottish by birth and I was an avionics technician in the RAF for 15 years, before PVR'ing. I owned my own car.
I served in the armed forces of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland just as you did. I will also be entitled to a pension, therefore I feel that I have just as much right to an opinion as you do.
Of course if there is a positive vote from the people of Scotland for independence, and you have your way, then my pension will not be paid by the UK despite my loyal service to it. So in summary my 15 years of service, including a 2 year tour of NI obviously count for nothing in your eyes.
Thank you for drawing attention to your apparent lack of respect for those with whom you served.
Last edited by Avionker; 27th January 2012 at 14:45.
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From: France 46
Avionker
It was on the 14th August 1969 that I Personally passed the message to the Home Secretary (Mr Callaghan) that the request for the Troops to be deployed in Northern Ireland had been made and was being implemented.
In the years that followed I flew into Belfast and Dublin over 300 times - several dozen of those sorties to Belfast were to collect Casevacs. My last sortie into Belfast was on 23rd February 1995. I was therefore operating into Northern Ireland and Eire for a period in excess of 25 years.
It was on the 14th August 1969 that I Personally passed the message to the Home Secretary (Mr Callaghan) that the request for the Troops to be deployed in Northern Ireland had been made and was being implemented.
In the years that followed I flew into Belfast and Dublin over 300 times - several dozen of those sorties to Belfast were to collect Casevacs. My last sortie into Belfast was on 23rd February 1995. I was therefore operating into Northern Ireland and Eire for a period in excess of 25 years.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Oxon
The average 1st tourist Wessex Co Pilot would have got more approaches than that in a couple of 21/7's, and into some pretty nasty places as opposed to down the slope into a civvy airport.
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Berkshire, UK
Cazatou,
If you qualified for the GSM (Northern Ireland), you might qualify for the Accumulated Campaign Service Medal (ACSM). Qualifying time is 720 days campaign service from some time in 1969. Note that one air sortie equates to 1 day's qualifying time at the rate of one sortie per day.
If you qualified for the GSM (Northern Ireland), you might qualify for the Accumulated Campaign Service Medal (ACSM). Qualifying time is 720 days campaign service from some time in 1969. Note that one air sortie equates to 1 day's qualifying time at the rate of one sortie per day.
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: UK
I collected a thousand hours in Northern Ireland; most of it below 200 ft. I would think that during that time I was in a gunsight more than three hundred times.
However, getting back on thread. I, as a pensioner living in Scotland, hope that the Union prevails. The reason is selfish. Should Scotland become independent and the financial dreams don't work out then they are going to have to cut out a few perks. The first one is the very expensive free bus travel nationwide for the over sixties. I like that; I like going from Aberdeen to Ullapool for the weekend for free; and I want the British taxpayers to keep funding it.
However, getting back on thread. I, as a pensioner living in Scotland, hope that the Union prevails. The reason is selfish. Should Scotland become independent and the financial dreams don't work out then they are going to have to cut out a few perks. The first one is the very expensive free bus travel nationwide for the over sixties. I like that; I like going from Aberdeen to Ullapool for the weekend for free; and I want the British taxpayers to keep funding it.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 27th January 2012 at 18:47.