BAE RAF P3 procurement feasibility report
Riley Dove,
This gives a good picture of where the P-8 programme stands right now:
P-8A Poseidon - Naval Technology
In many ways it is comparable with where MRA4 was when it was cancelled, with 5 development aircraft still apparently undergoing testing and development, and low rate initial production of aircraft having commenced.
The first Indian P-8I has indeed flown, as this article illustrates:
Boeing P-8I aircraft for Indian Navy completes first flight - Economic Times
but only a few weeks ago. Also note that the article says that mission systems are still to be installed!
While the P-8 is not a concept aircraft, it is still some way from being an operational, proven MPA. However, if you want new, it's pretty much the only game in town!
I still also believe that if we ordered them tomorrow (which we won't), we wouldn't see them for 3 years!
This gives a good picture of where the P-8 programme stands right now:
P-8A Poseidon - Naval Technology
In many ways it is comparable with where MRA4 was when it was cancelled, with 5 development aircraft still apparently undergoing testing and development, and low rate initial production of aircraft having commenced.
The first Indian P-8I has indeed flown, as this article illustrates:
Boeing P-8I aircraft for Indian Navy completes first flight - Economic Times
but only a few weeks ago. Also note that the article says that mission systems are still to be installed!
While the P-8 is not a concept aircraft, it is still some way from being an operational, proven MPA. However, if you want new, it's pretty much the only game in town!
I still also believe that if we ordered them tomorrow (which we won't), we wouldn't see them for 3 years!
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Perhaps it is just as likely, and logical, that the RN will go for the P-8.
Every day that passes without Armageddon is further reassurance to the Government that we can cope fine without an MPA. And if it all goes Pete Tong, we can simply add Russia/China/whoever to our Overseas Development recipients and pay them not to float around in British waters...
Biggus: However, if you want new, it's pretty much the only game in town!
We could probably start selling a few AP-3Cs to UK (the most advanced P-3 flying, but NZ P-3K2 looks pretty good too) with the mid-east draw-down.
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Duncs,
AEOs don't concur!
They disagree by 5-10 degrees and 1 knot, to try and show that they actually have an opinion of their own!!
AEOs don't concur!
They disagree by 5-10 degrees and 1 knot, to try and show that they actually have an opinion of their own!!
None of this matters to the AEO because he has the fastest car, the biggest house and the prettiest wife.
Happy Days
TOFO,
Certainly don't want to start a bun fight over the house or good looking Mrs piece but I have to call you on the car front. Having scratched my head on this, I can't honestly think of any AEO (in my 28 years of maritime) who had a decent car, let alone a fast one? Seem to remember Terry Anning as a young snco had an E Type that he used to drive home from Kinloss to St Mawgan every weekend but that was before he became an AEO.
I can however, remember lots of Cortinas, things by British Leyland and more latterly Hyundai's and Kia's but that's about it!
None of this matters to the AEO because he has the fastest car
I can however, remember lots of Cortinas, things by British Leyland and more latterly Hyundai's and Kia's but that's about it!
T O F O,
Surely the "tactical" directional consultant worked out his own value for the targets course and speed, then compared it to the figures from the wet team, AEO and the other directional consultant before coming up with the compromise figure to be used by the system/whole crew and base future tactics on.
The compromise figure the "tactical" directional consultant settled on was of course the targets correct course and speed, AND WAS (COINCIDENTALLY?
) HIS OWN ORIGINAL ASSESSMENT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE ENTIRE CYCLE!!
Happy days indeed - even happier when the seas were full of submarines, the aircraft full of DCS and the scruffs bar full of aircrew....
I'm with Party Animal on the issue of AEOs and cars though. There were however quite a few co-pilots I knew who spend all, and I mean ALL, their money on flash cars - the irony of driving a "babe magnet" in Forres and Elgin seemed to be lost on them!!!
Surely the "tactical" directional consultant worked out his own value for the targets course and speed, then compared it to the figures from the wet team, AEO and the other directional consultant before coming up with the compromise figure to be used by the system/whole crew and base future tactics on.
The compromise figure the "tactical" directional consultant settled on was of course the targets correct course and speed, AND WAS (COINCIDENTALLY?
) HIS OWN ORIGINAL ASSESSMENT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE ENTIRE CYCLE!!Happy days indeed - even happier when the seas were full of submarines, the aircraft full of DCS and the scruffs bar full of aircrew....
I'm with Party Animal on the issue of AEOs and cars though. There were however quite a few co-pilots I knew who spend all, and I mean ALL, their money on flash cars - the irony of driving a "babe magnet" in Forres and Elgin seemed to be lost on them!!!
Biggus,
Agree - but even happier days spent in Andoya, Bodo, Bergen, Vaeloose?, Nordholz, Valkenburg, Guernsey, Lan Bihou, Moron, Gib, Nimes, Sigonella, Akrotiri, Muscat Intercon, Diego Garcia, Butterworth, Singapore, Edinburgh (UK one for JMC briefs and Adelaide one for Fincastles), Whenuapai, Fiji, Samoa, Hawaii, Comox, San Diego, Houston (gives me away!), Niagra Falls, Brunswick, Weymouth (Boston), Oceana, Jax, Patrick AFB Cocoa Beach, Homestead (Miami), Key West, Puerto Rico, Bermuda, Greenwood, Halifax, Lajes, Ascension, MPA, Rio (when the VC10 was bust!), Keflavik and various other places that have Nimrod zaps stuck to bar walls.
As for the 10W rule, the crews I flew with always went for 5DME from the Forres Little Chef!
Happy days indeed - even happier when the seas were full of submarines, the aircraft full of DCS and the scruffs bar full of aircrew.... 
As for the 10W rule, the crews I flew with always went for 5DME from the Forres Little Chef!
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Party Animal
Thanks mate, your last post brought a smile to face....first time in ages.
Yep, been to most of those....including Houston (or should that be Galveston!!)
.....Still got a certificate for my ride in a B17.
Thanks mate, your last post brought a smile to face
....first time in ages.Yep, been to most of those....including Houston (or should that be Galveston!!)
.....Still got a certificate for my ride in a B17.
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As for the 10W rule, the crews I flew with always went for 5DME from the Forres Little Chef!
Y_G
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I know that it's a while since this thread was last active, but does anyone know what the outcome of this was? Has a decision been made yet?
As an ex-RAF technician that worked on Nimrods, I was sad to see the project get scrapped when it looked like it was so close to completion, but not totally surprised given the pathetic, short sighted people that we have in the UK pulling the budget strings.
I'm currently working in Seville on the Brazilian P-3 conversion and am really impressed with the capability of the new electronics suite, but the airframes are in a shocking state and are really showing their age. I think that the RAF would be much better off going down the CASA route with a 235 or 295. Apparently a 235 goes for about €45M with the electronics suite. Seems like a bargain to me!
As an ex-RAF technician that worked on Nimrods, I was sad to see the project get scrapped when it looked like it was so close to completion, but not totally surprised given the pathetic, short sighted people that we have in the UK pulling the budget strings.
I'm currently working in Seville on the Brazilian P-3 conversion and am really impressed with the capability of the new electronics suite, but the airframes are in a shocking state and are really showing their age. I think that the RAF would be much better off going down the CASA route with a 235 or 295. Apparently a 235 goes for about €45M with the electronics suite. Seems like a bargain to me!
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latest rumour is that the RAF is looking to buy 24. They will be fully refurbished with a mission system based on the kit that came out of the MRA4. Engine choice is still being decided, but whatever the RAF go for, it's bound not to fit very well. Sources close to the project suggest that they will also be give a damned good polishing!
One squadron to go to RAF Kinloss - so stand fast on closing the place down. The other squadron is going to RAF St Mawgan - there are negotiations going on right now with the council to lease back a small parcel of Newquay Cornwall Airport.
It is also rumoured that the RAF is looking for a sponsor for the aircraft. A queue has not yet been formed.
S-D
One squadron to go to RAF Kinloss - so stand fast on closing the place down. The other squadron is going to RAF St Mawgan - there are negotiations going on right now with the council to lease back a small parcel of Newquay Cornwall Airport.
It is also rumoured that the RAF is looking for a sponsor for the aircraft. A queue has not yet been formed.
S-D
Last edited by salad-dodger; 21st May 2012 at 22:21.
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a slightly spurious figure so that once he has mixed it all up the answer comes back what the AEO wanted in the first place
S-D - I'm well aware of the power of rumour. I find it difficult to believe that having scrubbed Nimrod, made public announcements that the Army will move to Kinloss, then publicly announcing that an MPA requirement is not funded, that SofS is going to change his tune.
The idea that the RAF is somehow magically planning to deliver 24 MPA, to two bases (one which no longer has an active RAF runway, one of which is due to become an Army base), and do so in direct contravention of a series of ministerial announcements to Parliament does seem a little odd...
The idea that the RAF is somehow magically planning to deliver 24 MPA, to two bases (one which no longer has an active RAF runway, one of which is due to become an Army base), and do so in direct contravention of a series of ministerial announcements to Parliament does seem a little odd...