Sentinel Relocates to GDC
You haven't seen anything yet. Just you wait until the MOD announce they are going to disband the ASACS Sea Kings (or any other FAA platform for that matter) in order to extend the life of, or upgrade, the Sentinal .... 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My god you are right!
The party will go on for days.
No more shall they have to orbit slowly whilst licking grooves in the window.
No more shall they have to slowly witness the growth of extra limbs and the diminution of their social circle.
No more shall they have to suffer the epithet "freak"....(of course they are wrong about that one. once a freak always a freak)
The party will go on for days.
No more shall they have to orbit slowly whilst licking grooves in the window.
No more shall they have to slowly witness the growth of extra limbs and the diminution of their social circle.
No more shall they have to suffer the epithet "freak"....(of course they are wrong about that one. once a freak always a freak)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LJ,
Is this what the young uns call; “a Wah”?
See the big metal birds with one engine? They are called “single engine aeroplanes”.
See the bigger metal birds with two engines? They are called “multi engine aeroplanes”.
See where I’m going with this?
Anyway, my advice stands. Do some legwork yourself and find out exactly what it can actually do with “just a SAR/GMTI capability"….(don’t take anyone’s word for it).
Is this what the young uns call; “a Wah”?
See the big metal birds with one engine? They are called “single engine aeroplanes”.
See the bigger metal birds with two engines? They are called “multi engine aeroplanes”.
See where I’m going with this?
Anyway, my advice stands. Do some legwork yourself and find out exactly what it can actually do with “just a SAR/GMTI capability"….(don’t take anyone’s word for it).
Prop Ed, cheers for replying.
It was more the comments implying deeper knowledge; iRaven talks about how Sentinel's definitely out in 2015 post-Afghanistan, you and others seem to say with great certainty that it's not.
I wouldn't want to get into arguments over simple numbers; it means nothing to me if Sentinel's got a 9hr or an 8hr endurance in certain prevailing temperatures; but I am interested in whether or not it's well received. The GMTI stuff seems useful, but I wasn't convinced the majority of the SAR stuff was better than Reaper's; just that it was able to grab a wider area and the platform was obviously a lot faster.
Is iRaven right when he says it's not bringing much to the party, especially in terms of immediately exploitable intelligence and imagery? Or is it actually much more rapid and he's wrong; or is he right it's slow but everyone's actually happy with that?
Most importantly, he seems certain it's off after Afghanistan, and as a non-Waddington person I had thought that was as written in stone as the rest of the SDSR announcements. You seemed really sure it'd get a stay of execution; any chance you could expand on that? Has it caught some high-up eyes? And any idea what might be up for the chop to sustain it...?
It was more the comments implying deeper knowledge; iRaven talks about how Sentinel's definitely out in 2015 post-Afghanistan, you and others seem to say with great certainty that it's not.
I wouldn't want to get into arguments over simple numbers; it means nothing to me if Sentinel's got a 9hr or an 8hr endurance in certain prevailing temperatures; but I am interested in whether or not it's well received. The GMTI stuff seems useful, but I wasn't convinced the majority of the SAR stuff was better than Reaper's; just that it was able to grab a wider area and the platform was obviously a lot faster.
Is iRaven right when he says it's not bringing much to the party, especially in terms of immediately exploitable intelligence and imagery? Or is it actually much more rapid and he's wrong; or is he right it's slow but everyone's actually happy with that?
Most importantly, he seems certain it's off after Afghanistan, and as a non-Waddington person I had thought that was as written in stone as the rest of the SDSR announcements. You seemed really sure it'd get a stay of execution; any chance you could expand on that? Has it caught some high-up eyes? And any idea what might be up for the chop to sustain it...?
LJ,
Is this what the young uns call; “a Wah”?
See the big metal birds with one engine? They are called “single engine aeroplanes”.
See the bigger metal birds with two engines? They are called “multi engine aeroplanes”.
See where I’m going with this?
Anyway, my advice stands. Do some legwork yourself and find out exactly what it can actually do with “just a SAR/GMTI capability"….(don’t take anyone’s word for it).
Is this what the young uns call; “a Wah”?
See the big metal birds with one engine? They are called “single engine aeroplanes”.
See the bigger metal birds with two engines? They are called “multi engine aeroplanes”.
See where I’m going with this?
Anyway, my advice stands. Do some legwork yourself and find out exactly what it can actually do with “just a SAR/GMTI capability"….(don’t take anyone’s word for it).
Seeing as I was the lead for Reaper and some other ISTAR assets until 11 days ago (when I retired), I would be very interested to hear your definition of "multi faceted". In fact, I also ran ASTOR (before it changed to Sentinel) for the FLC in late 2009/early 2010 for ~4 months, so I believe I know a fair bit about the program and its foibles.
Now Reaper, with SAR/GMTI (with a comprehensive software suite to manipulate the collect), EO/IR, GBU-12, AGM-114, BLOS+LOS comms and other payloads is what I would call "multi-faceted"!
So do enlighten us, old bean. You seem quick to rubbish comments but slow (despite prompting) to come up with tangible facts to back up your bold expressions.
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 25th Oct 2011 at 20:52.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LJ,
This is agonizing,
Don’t listen to me. Don’t listen to anyone on here to claims to “know everything”. My “tangible facts” have no more credibility than anyone else’s on here. That is more or less the point I’ve been trying to make for a while now.
Why someone as experienced and knowledgeable as the 2Gp lead for Reaper and some other ISTAR assets until 11 days ago (not Sentinel I assume, OLD BEAN) should have to pimp for info on PPRuNe is beyond me. I’m a little embarrassed for you in that respect. However, by all means feel free to inject your extensive Sentinel knowledge into the mix. Everyone else has.
In fact, what you don’t know, just make up? No one will know the difference.
From your lofty position you still must have some old chum’s phone numbers in the various CAOCs. Call them and hear firsthand how the Sentinel is regarded in terms of current Ops? That might have a bit more cred than something “some dude who claims to be an expert” wrote on his laptop whilst sat in his pants eating potnoodles?
This is agonizing,
Don’t listen to me. Don’t listen to anyone on here to claims to “know everything”. My “tangible facts” have no more credibility than anyone else’s on here. That is more or less the point I’ve been trying to make for a while now.
Why someone as experienced and knowledgeable as the 2Gp lead for Reaper and some other ISTAR assets until 11 days ago (not Sentinel I assume, OLD BEAN) should have to pimp for info on PPRuNe is beyond me. I’m a little embarrassed for you in that respect. However, by all means feel free to inject your extensive Sentinel knowledge into the mix. Everyone else has.
In fact, what you don’t know, just make up? No one will know the difference.
From your lofty position you still must have some old chum’s phone numbers in the various CAOCs. Call them and hear firsthand how the Sentinel is regarded in terms of current Ops? That might have a bit more cred than something “some dude who claims to be an expert” wrote on his laptop whilst sat in his pants eating potnoodles?
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Prop-Ed, I think your bluff and bluster is being called. It is no great secret that ASTOR was of limited utility in Afghanistan and claiming SAR and GMTI is multi-faceted is stretching things a little.
On the other hand Libya was a far better theatre for the system and there may be the possibility that Libya could save it, but the fundamentals stay the same, it is an expensive one trick pony that falls in the "nice to have" camp.
Looking at the defence big picture, I'd rather we had an MPA (and I'm definitely not a Nimrod guy).
On the other hand Libya was a far better theatre for the system and there may be the possibility that Libya could save it, but the fundamentals stay the same, it is an expensive one trick pony that falls in the "nice to have" camp.
Looking at the defence big picture, I'd rather we had an MPA (and I'm definitely not a Nimrod guy).
The saddest thing for me, Prop-Ed, is that there is truth in all of the posts (including your mate iR). You seem to be "wire locked" into a defensive line of attack on anyone who has a bad word about Sentinel, when quite simply, every asset has issues/foibles to a lesser or larger extent.
LJ
LJ
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glasgow
Age: 61
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Prop-Ed,
I agree with LJ, totally. From what I have heard (Ladybird book of planes, or some such), Sentinel is by no means perfect, and does have issues. I also believe that you have been somewhat abrasive and defensive without actually arguing your point.
I would love to know what you believe; and why.
As has been posted previously I believe Sentinel has its uses, but is it value for money or is there a better product out there? Unfortunately in these days of being broke we can not afford much.
I do believe that Sentinel can be made in to a very useful asset, but is it worth it? What life is left in the hulls for instance? What would be the total cost?
In my opinion UAVs are not a total solution, but if the the systems fitted are better than what is within Sentinel, are we not better off going with them? Please remember that we can no longer afford what we want, not by a long shot.
Remember, it is great wearing your heart on your sleeve (I am exactly the same) but please have a good argument.
I agree with LJ, totally. From what I have heard (Ladybird book of planes, or some such), Sentinel is by no means perfect, and does have issues. I also believe that you have been somewhat abrasive and defensive without actually arguing your point.
I would love to know what you believe; and why.
As has been posted previously I believe Sentinel has its uses, but is it value for money or is there a better product out there? Unfortunately in these days of being broke we can not afford much.
I do believe that Sentinel can be made in to a very useful asset, but is it worth it? What life is left in the hulls for instance? What would be the total cost?
In my opinion UAVs are not a total solution, but if the the systems fitted are better than what is within Sentinel, are we not better off going with them? Please remember that we can no longer afford what we want, not by a long shot.
Remember, it is great wearing your heart on your sleeve (I am exactly the same) but please have a good argument.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Backwards PLT,
I’m not entirely sure how my original post on this thread, which pointed out; that the opinions of one nutjob may not be as factually accurate as he would have us believe, has turned/degenerated into my “Bluff and Bluster” being called!?
It probably won’t take Jessica Fletcher to work out what I do for a living and where I work. So, to that end, I’ve (at times) been trying to give my best steer regarding the truth/balls written and read by the PPRuNe hardcore who seem unable to find any alternative source of learning and think PPRuNe forms MOD and Governmental defense policy.
I’m not entirely sure how my original post on this thread, which pointed out; that the opinions of one nutjob may not be as factually accurate as he would have us believe, has turned/degenerated into my “Bluff and Bluster” being called!?
It probably won’t take Jessica Fletcher to work out what I do for a living and where I work. So, to that end, I’ve (at times) been trying to give my best steer regarding the truth/balls written and read by the PPRuNe hardcore who seem unable to find any alternative source of learning and think PPRuNe forms MOD and Governmental defense policy.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Away from here
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAS statement
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.ph...ace&Itemid=107
CAS statement on future for the platform. Standby for more one trick pony stuff.
CAS statement on future for the platform. Standby for more one trick pony stuff.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sentinal did very well during the recent Libya operation, no one could really argue that. However; if we decide to keep the platform (perhaps minus the ground elements?) then what do we remove in its place? SDSR was a treasury run money saving exercise. We still need to meet those savings. Any suggestions?
A friend of mine brought it into service and took it on its first deployment. A well respected operator. Whilst he acknlowledges some short falls, he felt it had done some good stuff and contributed a lot to the picture. In fact, the GMTI picture has been central to the op and will be for a while to come.
SDSR or not, there are those in the corridors that haven't yet given up on R1 - as Prop-Ed says.
Prop-Ed, don't give up the posts.
SDSR or not, there are those in the corridors that haven't yet given up on R1 - as Prop-Ed says.
Prop-Ed, don't give up the posts.
grousehunter,
Well,seeing as the entire military SAR capability has just been **** canned and will result in the closure of 22, 202, 203 and 771 Squadrons, SARTU and the Sea King fleet, how about that as a suggestion?
Well,seeing as the entire military SAR capability has just been **** canned and will result in the closure of 22, 202, 203 and 771 Squadrons, SARTU and the Sea King fleet, how about that as a suggestion?
Given that the military has always talked about ceasing Sea King SAR ops by 2016, then presumably the closure of 22, 202, 203 and 771 Sqns, etc, was already factored into SDSR planning?
I did say "presumably".....
I did say "presumably".....
