New Gen AirShips - Hybrid Air Vehicles, UK
There is no fixed standard at the moment.
The FAA has its Airship Design Criteria (P-8110-2) plus Advisory Circular 21-17.
EASA has a draft CS-30.
There is an old German-Dutch effort called Transport Airship Requirements.
None really address a hybrid air vehicle.
Best guess at the moment is that when TC comes, it is likely to be based on a mixture of the above plus special conditions.
AOC is something I know nothing about, sorry. My expertise is certification of flying machines not their operators.
The FAA has its Airship Design Criteria (P-8110-2) plus Advisory Circular 21-17.
EASA has a draft CS-30.
There is an old German-Dutch effort called Transport Airship Requirements.
None really address a hybrid air vehicle.
Best guess at the moment is that when TC comes, it is likely to be based on a mixture of the above plus special conditions.
AOC is something I know nothing about, sorry. My expertise is certification of flying machines not their operators.
@Avtur
There are some snippets about certification on Google.
e.g.
HAV Delays Hybrid Airship Flight; Selex To Study Sensors | Defense News: Aviation International News
Hybrid Air Vehicles - Airlander receives environmentally friendly transport funding
There are some snippets about certification on Google.
e.g.
HAV Delays Hybrid Airship Flight; Selex To Study Sensors | Defense News: Aviation International News
HAV is planning a 200-hour flight-test program leading to certification of the Airlander 10 under UK CAA Section B regulations, and/or EASA regulations still under development. HAV has only 40 employees, but holds 21 patents for what it describes as a "disruptive technology."
HAV received the funding through the EU’s Smart, Green and Integrated Transport Societal Challenge that aims to bolster European transport, specifically that which is resource-efficient, climate friendly and safe, the company says.
The funding will facilitate the development of a regulatory framework for EASA certification of hybrid airships so that it will be certified to a civil standard and away from the military specification that it was built to.
......
It is now working to take it towards a first UK flight, while developing it to both a military and civil specification for different requirements, hence the work to take it to an EASA-certifiable standard.
The funding will facilitate the development of a regulatory framework for EASA certification of hybrid airships so that it will be certified to a civil standard and away from the military specification that it was built to.
......
It is now working to take it towards a first UK flight, while developing it to both a military and civil specification for different requirements, hence the work to take it to an EASA-certifiable standard.
I can hear the LockMart CEO now...
"Commercial aviation - wow, that's a big market. But wait a minute - who pays the bills when we deliver seven years late? How do we generate revenue and margin from something that's not ready when we say it is? You mean... the customers don't pay us until it's ready?
"So... we do it with our shareholders' money, and then we make it back when we sell the product. So what happens if we only sell 5, not 500? Are you telling me... that... we... might... actually... LOSE MONEY?
CALL SECURITY, GET THIS IDIOT OUT OF HERE!!!!
"Commercial aviation - wow, that's a big market. But wait a minute - who pays the bills when we deliver seven years late? How do we generate revenue and margin from something that's not ready when we say it is? You mean... the customers don't pay us until it's ready?
"So... we do it with our shareholders' money, and then we make it back when we sell the product. So what happens if we only sell 5, not 500? Are you telling me... that... we... might... actually... LOSE MONEY?
CALL SECURITY, GET THIS IDIOT OUT OF HERE!!!!
This is off a facebook post by HAV:
"We're delighted to announce further progress on the re-assembly of Airlander. We're now attaching "hard structure" to the aircraft. As this photo shows, the battens have been fixed to the rear lobe of the hull, ready to attach the first of the rear engines in a couple of weeks time. The battens, made of carbon composites, provide the rigidity and strength that is needed for the engine to fit onto the very end of the Airlander.
Lots of activity in the Hangar all the time - and we'll be continuing the work throughout the Christmas and New Year period, so only a short break for us here. But having an Airlander with a reasonable amount of the hard structure (meaning fins, engines etc) on by Christmas will be a great present for all of us and, hopefully, all of our supporters."
Lots of activity in the Hangar all the time - and we'll be continuing the work throughout the Christmas and New Year period, so only a short break for us here. But having an Airlander with a reasonable amount of the hard structure (meaning fins, engines etc) on by Christmas will be a great present for all of us and, hopefully, all of our supporters."
Hybrid Air Vehicles Ltd
Ground Crew Chief Required. Please pass the word! We are seeking a second ground crew chief to support its Airlander 10 aircraft. This is a long term appointment to support Alex Travell, in all aspects of running Airlander on the ground, in the hangar and out at the mast. We need someone who can ‘take charge’, manage a small team and operate within an EASA/CAA regulated environment. You must have prior senior ground crew/crew chief experience so please only apply if you meet these criteria! Please submit a CV and covering letter by 11 January 2016 to careers@hybridairvehicles.netless
Ground Crew Chief Required. Please pass the word! We are seeking a second ground crew chief to support its Airlander 10 aircraft. This is a long term appointment to support Alex Travell, in all aspects of running Airlander on the ground, in the hangar and out at the mast. We need someone who can ‘take charge’, manage a small team and operate within an EASA/CAA regulated environment. You must have prior senior ground crew/crew chief experience so please only apply if you meet these criteria! Please submit a CV and covering letter by 11 January 2016 to careers@hybridairvehicles.netless
All the key parts that attach underneath the Hull are in place now - that is, the Fuel Module at the rear, the Payload Beam (where we can undersling loads from) and now the full Mission Module (which is where the payload - whether cargo, communications equipment or passengers - will go) and the voluminous cockpit.
There's a short video here from Forward (formerly Lola) Composites about their work on the mission module:
Horizontal Innovation - IET Conferences
Some frame grabs:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...DNCckRHUE9CVU0
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...ExFZTd3em90aDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...lZ4UXpkaUZqcm8
Horizontal Innovation - IET Conferences
Some frame grabs:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...ExFZTd3em90aDg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...lZ4UXpkaUZqcm8
Airlander 10: 92m-long aircraft to fly in UK skies for first time | Home News | News | The Independent
A groundbreaking aircraft, thought to be one of the biggest ever made, will be taking off for its first test-flight in the UK in March.
The Airlander 10, an aeroplane and helicopter hybrid invention, measures 92m in length, 43.5m in width and 26m in height.
Developed by Hybrid Air Vehicles (HAV), the aircraft has the ability to fly at 20,000 feet. But for its maiden voyage, it will be restricted to gliding within 15 nautical-miles of its hangar in Cardington, Bedfordshire, flying no higher than 4,000ft, no faster than 45mph and for no longer than two hours.
But if all goes well in the gentle test-drive, it could mark the start of a new era of passenger-flying, said Chris Daniels, head of partnerships at HAV.
“It’s absolutely in our plans [to transport passengers],” Mr Daniels told The Independent. “During the flight-test programme… we’re limited because it’s a prototype aircraft. Because it’s under flight-testing conditions, we cannot take passengers.”
.......
The Airlander 10, an aeroplane and helicopter hybrid invention, measures 92m in length, 43.5m in width and 26m in height.
Developed by Hybrid Air Vehicles (HAV), the aircraft has the ability to fly at 20,000 feet. But for its maiden voyage, it will be restricted to gliding within 15 nautical-miles of its hangar in Cardington, Bedfordshire, flying no higher than 4,000ft, no faster than 45mph and for no longer than two hours.
But if all goes well in the gentle test-drive, it could mark the start of a new era of passenger-flying, said Chris Daniels, head of partnerships at HAV.
“It’s absolutely in our plans [to transport passengers],” Mr Daniels told The Independent. “During the flight-test programme… we’re limited because it’s a prototype aircraft. Because it’s under flight-testing conditions, we cannot take passengers.”
.......
Good to see it got a mention in the press, but:
???
???
???
The Airlander 10, an aeroplane and helicopter hybrid invention,
it will be restricted to gliding
if all goes well in the gentle test-drive
I see the snake oil is being peddled:
My comments in bold
http://www.hybridairvehicles.com/dow...rlander-21.pdf
http://www.hybridairvehicles.com/dow...rlander-77.pdf
I hear that the great white elephant will fly next week as the conditions may be OK - what a great endorsement of its so called 'all weather' capability!
Then the real truth comes out:
So you need a large area for this thing to swivel around its mast (not included) and then a load of ground support equipment to load/unload it. Minimal groundcrew - my arse!
More gems contained in here: http://www.hybridairvehicles.com/dow...&A%20Sheet.pdf
LJ
My comments in bold
What are the key capabilities of the Airlander?
The Airlander is a new and revolutionary form of hybrid aircraft characterised by:
• An environmentally friendly benchmark for air transport & logistics (between 20% and 40% of the fuel
consumption and operating costs of equivalent traditional aircraft) at 20-40% of the speed
• Rotary wing functionality with fixed wing range combined with reduced operating costs or rotary wing speed without fixed wing ease of operation
• The ability to operate from land or water, snow, ice, desert - no dedicated infrastructure needed apart from a socking great big hangar like the one at Cardington to protect it from the elements whilst you work on it
• Payload flexibility – containers, infrastructure, cargo, people and combinations just like any other transport aircraft then
• An ability to revolutionise cargo delivery and land in most places, wherever required as long as it's not too windy
• Direct end-to-end transport of cargo, without transfer delay, even to inaccessible areas as long as there are people on the ground in those inaccessible areas
• Best in class platform for persistent surveillance Airlander 10 quotes 5 days and Airlander 50 just 4 days - by the time you get there it will be time to come home!
• Ability to double up as a Search and Rescue platform in hostile seas oh brilliant, at 80kts into a 60kts gale I will bee waiting a long time in those hostile seas for help to arrive!
The Airlander is a new and revolutionary form of hybrid aircraft characterised by:
• An environmentally friendly benchmark for air transport & logistics (between 20% and 40% of the fuel
consumption and operating costs of equivalent traditional aircraft) at 20-40% of the speed
• Rotary wing functionality with fixed wing range combined with reduced operating costs or rotary wing speed without fixed wing ease of operation
• The ability to operate from land or water, snow, ice, desert - no dedicated infrastructure needed apart from a socking great big hangar like the one at Cardington to protect it from the elements whilst you work on it
• Payload flexibility – containers, infrastructure, cargo, people and combinations just like any other transport aircraft then
• An ability to revolutionise cargo delivery and land in most places, wherever required as long as it's not too windy
• Direct end-to-end transport of cargo, without transfer delay, even to inaccessible areas as long as there are people on the ground in those inaccessible areas
• Best in class platform for persistent surveillance Airlander 10 quotes 5 days and Airlander 50 just 4 days - by the time you get there it will be time to come home!
• Ability to double up as a Search and Rescue platform in hostile seas oh brilliant, at 80kts into a 60kts gale I will bee waiting a long time in those hostile seas for help to arrive!
http://www.hybridairvehicles.com/dow...rlander-77.pdf
I hear that the great white elephant will fly next week as the conditions may be OK - what a great endorsement of its so called 'all weather' capability!
Then the real truth comes out:
What are the ground handling capabilities of the Airlander?
The Airlander has much better ground handling capabilities and requires far less ground crew than a traditional airship. It can land like a conventional aircraft when heavy and can power itself down onto the ground when light. In addition, each Airlander is fitted with integrated mooring mast attachment. After landing, this is connected to a mooring mast so that the Airlander is free to rotate and face the wind, similar to a weather vane. This allows the Airlander to withstand winds speeds of up to 80 knots at ground level.
Cargo can be loaded and unloaded by crane, winch, ramp or scissor lift, depending on the configuration and type of cargo. Minimal ground crew are required: two for an Airlander 10 and none for an Airlander 50.
The Airlander has much better ground handling capabilities and requires far less ground crew than a traditional airship. It can land like a conventional aircraft when heavy and can power itself down onto the ground when light. In addition, each Airlander is fitted with integrated mooring mast attachment. After landing, this is connected to a mooring mast so that the Airlander is free to rotate and face the wind, similar to a weather vane. This allows the Airlander to withstand winds speeds of up to 80 knots at ground level.
Cargo can be loaded and unloaded by crane, winch, ramp or scissor lift, depending on the configuration and type of cargo. Minimal ground crew are required: two for an Airlander 10 and none for an Airlander 50.
More gems contained in here: http://www.hybridairvehicles.com/dow...&A%20Sheet.pdf
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 20th Mar 2016 at 12:59.
Tell us how you really feel, LJ.
Maybe you can console yourself with the realization that, over the decades, the entire neo-LTA/hybrid community has consumed a relatively tiny amount of government/customer R&D money.
If I had to take a SWAG, I'd say that the total sum is a clear order of magnitude less than the average per-program overrun - that is, costs above the estimate to do what the contractor signed up to do - on major military FSD programs, which would easily be in single-digit billions. Not to mention flawed-from-the-starting-pistol cancelled projects like MRA4 or Comanche.
So if the LTA community are snake-oil salesmen, they're pikers.
Maybe you can console yourself with the realization that, over the decades, the entire neo-LTA/hybrid community has consumed a relatively tiny amount of government/customer R&D money.
If I had to take a SWAG, I'd say that the total sum is a clear order of magnitude less than the average per-program overrun - that is, costs above the estimate to do what the contractor signed up to do - on major military FSD programs, which would easily be in single-digit billions. Not to mention flawed-from-the-starting-pistol cancelled projects like MRA4 or Comanche.
So if the LTA community are snake-oil salesmen, they're pikers.
Last edited by LowObservable; 20th Mar 2016 at 15:03.
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Leon, I don't really get where you are coming from here. Every time anything gets posted about this aircraft you jump on your hobbyhorse to trash it. As LowObservable notes, it's hardly consuming vast amounts of defence cash - more gets spent when a major project gets a new IPT leader and they change all the letter headings. How about giving them a chance to show what they can do and then if its rubbish spout on about it afterwards. The thing is so nearly finished that we will soon all see for ourselves the facts rather than the very emotional opinions for and against that get trotted out at the moment. You normally post sensible stuff so I don't know how this project has tweaked your tail but there is clearly some baggage here. It makes you look a bit daft, which is a shame. If you want to jump up and down about wasted money there are lots of more promising examples you could rail at
One of the real problems with LTA/hybrid - and HAV themselves walked into it with the LEM-V go-around - is that for some reason, everyone forgets that every such aircraft that isn't a repro-Goodyear or smaller is a new type of flying vehicle. I think HAV is showing more sense this time and treating the first AirLander as a demonstrator of what could be done, rather than promising to go fight a war in three years from program start.