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Red Arrows Jet Crash

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Red Arrows Jet Crash

Old 22nd Aug 2011, 22:58
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Just seen this! Not familiar with that paper so maybe someone can enlighten me on it's reputation??


Red Arrows pilot Jon Egging's jet 'may have hit bird' | Metro.co.uk

BW
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Old 22nd Aug 2011, 23:11
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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maybe someone can enlighten me on it's reputation
It doesn't really have one, apart from being the bane of rubbish collectors on the capital's rail network. Put it another way, I'd be surprised if it got a scoop on any major news story.
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 01:18
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by grizzled View Post
I take it you haven't been following the AF447 thread on Tech...
Sadly that has a lot to do with at least one poster (possibly more) posting under a series of aliases, asking the same questions every few pages or so, and people attempting to be helpful to them (including myself for some time) not spotting the pattern. To be honest, given how prolific said poster is, I'm impressed it has stayed as on-target as it has for as long as it has.

As for this one, all I can say is that it's a rotten shame, whatever the cause turns out to be. As someone who has been awestruck by the Reds and many other display flyers out there, be careful out there, folks!

Last edited by DozyWannabe; 23rd Aug 2011 at 02:03.
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 04:58
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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For G-CPTN

You asked earlier about inverted ejection. The limitation on the Hawk when I flew it (1979-80) was that you could eject inverted as low as 350 ft provided you had no rate of descent.
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 06:59
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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When you break formation to recover on to base leg for landing, could this ever involve more g or a lot of it for longer than the display itself? I've always assumed that, by definition, you are dumping speed at idle thrust, so any high g would be too short-lived to induce g-lock. But you might pull a lot momentarily for positioning purposes. Is that correct?
In level flight g is equal to the reciprocal of the cosine of the angle of bank. It is unrelated to airspeed. A 60 inclined turn in a PA28 at 120knots gives the same g as a 60 inclined turn in a Typhoon at 500knots - that is to say 2g.
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 08:33
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Having checked the MB website, and the sequence of events following initiation of an ejection, It seems strange that Flt Lt Egging was found with his chute, yet the seat apparently was still in the plane / cockpit wreckage?

I seem to recall many years ago a Harrier(?) flying unmanned over the irish sea, apparently due to inadvertant firing of the drogue on the seat.

FT

Last edited by Flyt3est; 23rd Aug 2011 at 09:04. Reason: Further research on MB website
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 09:08
  #147 (permalink)  
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It seems strange that Flt Lt Egging was found with his chute, yet the seat apparently was still in the plane / cockpit wreckage?
I can't find it now but I thought that the guys who found him found the seat first in the river then the parachute.
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 09:43
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Exascot - Yes the reports seem sketchy, and my comment that the seat was in the cockpit wreckage was an assumption based on loose reports. I note a lack of witnesses to seeing the parachute in the air??
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 10:56
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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To All Posters

He was a very competent military flier who died doing his job . He joins the list of those who have done the same over many years. We salute him, his wife and his team, each of whom could have suffered the same fate. We don't know what happened, we should wait and see. I hope the Arrows will continue to thrill the crowds.
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 15:44
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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All very sad and my thoughts go out to Flt Lt Jon Egging's remarkable widow, his family, friends and colleagues in the team. I hope that the true facts emerge quickly so that they may know with certainty what went wrong and find their peace.

I sincerely hope that the team recovers from this tragedy and survives the next round of defence spending cuts that threatens their continued existence. Some MP's have recently (before the accident) expressed the view that the 8.8m per annum budget is money wasted.

The show of public support that has been evident this past few days must surely speak for itself: the Red Arrows are one of the few things left in Britain that we can still legitimately be proud of. They are the best. They must keep flying ... at any cost.

Last edited by Seat 32F; 24th Aug 2011 at 00:10.
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 16:15
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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I too feel a kinship with the Red Arrows. I'm neither British nor a military fast jet pilot, just a civilian corporate pilot who served his US military time in Europe over two decades ago. While there, I had the opportunity to see the team perform at Farnborough in '88. I too would like to see them continue to represent the UK with style and pride. I hope it works out that way.

Military flying in general and jet demo flying in particular is by it's nature an activity which exposes it's participants to a higher level of hazard than most other organized flying. It's testament to the professionalism and skill of these team members that mishaps are as rare as they are. Yet still the occasional mishap will unfortunately occur. It's the nature of the beast.

Whatever the cause(s) behind this one, it will be revealed in due course. Some of the speculation appears well reasoned and of course there is the rest. I don't mind withholding my conjecture until a few more facts are presented. There just isn't much reliable information to work with yet.

Best regards,

westhawk
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 16:50
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Watching the Reds, as I have a number of times, makes me feel proud to be British. There is something about them that's just that little bit extra special over and above other nation's display teams.

As far as i'm concerned Jon Egging was a hero pilot who served his country with honour and died doing what he loved. He'll be greatly missed. RIP.
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 17:11
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Been out of the loop for a couple of days.

I watched the SKY news interview of his wife and wanted to throttle the inane woman who interviewed her. I thought Flt Lt Eggings wife showed tremendous courage and bravery to speak about her husband so soon after this tragic accident.

Sincere condolences to all who knew Flt Lt Egging.

RIP John.
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Old 23rd Aug 2011, 23:19
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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I watched the SKY news interview of his wife and wanted to throttle the inane woman who interviewed her.
Indeed. Mrs Egging displayed incredible dignity and elegance in the face of her personal loss. She is an example to us all.
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Old 24th Aug 2011, 00:58
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Having checked the MB website, and the sequence of events following initiation of an ejection, It seems strange that Flt Lt Egging was found with his chute, yet the seat apparently was still in the plane / cockpit wreckage?

I seem to recall many years ago a Harrier(?) flying unmanned over the irish sea, apparently due to inadvertant firing of the drogue on the seat.

FT
A number of the events in the operation of MB Mk10 seats fitted to the Hawk are initiated by the seat moving out of the cockpit and not the pulling of the black and yellow handle. Two of them (firing of the drogue gun and initiation of the barostatic time release) will result in parachute deployment and aircrew/seat separation. (The other two are canopy MDC firing as the seat starts to move and initiation of the rocket motor as the seat fully exits the cockpit). Operation of the manual override handle will also fire the drogue gun and initiate parachute deployment along with aircrew/seat separation, though the Hawk may have an interlock to stop that from operating unless the B/Y handle is pulled. The Harrier accident in the late 1980s is covered here
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Old 24th Aug 2011, 09:50
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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In October Jon Egging was due to take part in a charity cycle ride from coast to coast across the UK. This was with other Red Arrows and the RAF Historic Flight. It was to raise money for the RAF Association and the charity fly2help.
Donations may be made at :- Virgin Money Giving | Fundraising | Jon Egging's Coast-to-Coast Challenge
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Old 24th Aug 2011, 10:29
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Cycle ride.

It would appear from the comments left in the last day or so, that John's widow, Emma will be doing the ride, in his memory. Now if THAT doesn't deserve a few quid from all and sundry, I don't know what does. I'm in for a tenner.
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Old 24th Aug 2011, 10:34
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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That's right - Thanks tezzer.
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Old 24th Aug 2011, 11:45
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Not familiar with that paper so maybe someone can enlighten me on it's reputation??
Owned by the same group as the Daily Mail.

I watched the Reds by accident at Whitby Regatta the week before - we had no idea the Regatta was on, we only called in so our little lad could watch a steam train and build a sandcastle and wondered why it was so busy ! I hadn't seen them for years and they were fantastic of course - so sad to be reading this a week later.
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Old 24th Aug 2011, 12:38
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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More 'helpful speculation' here: Flash of ‘fire’ on doomed Red Arrow | The Sun |News DTel has also picked up the story, so it must be true. Unless, of course, what our spotter photographed is an anti-collision light. Perhaps the header should have read "Flash of 'fire' inside light bulb on doomed Red Arrow".... However, the sub caption is absolutely spot on: "Light caught on film moments before crash."
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