AAC MIDDLE WALLOP
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AAC MIDDLE WALLOP
After my initial attempt, I am informed that this is the appropriate thread for my question.
A comment made by a reliable source close to MOD indicates that AAC Middle Wallop's closure is now on the Strategic Defence Review agenda, with a move of assets to Wattisham. Not intended immediately, but only a few years away.
Anyone out there who can shed some light on this?
A comment made by a reliable source close to MOD indicates that AAC Middle Wallop's closure is now on the Strategic Defence Review agenda, with a move of assets to Wattisham. Not intended immediately, but only a few years away.
Anyone out there who can shed some light on this?
Maybe
I worked in MOD through Tony's SDR in '97. Middle Wallop was due to close then and disperse its functions to other bases (Topcliffe, Wattisham, Dishforth and Shawbury spring to mind but I can't be sure, memory fades). However, Army are past masters at keeping their historic turf. So they rushed on with WAH 64 simulator at MW and hey presto! Too expensive to move it, so keep MW open. Handily, the Museum of Army Aviation is right next door and another option for AAC pers to move around the various Army units/HQ around SPTA whilst staying in same house (and probably drawing BSA then CEA too).
So, MW closing through SDSR/PR12......don't hold your breath.
Batco
So, MW closing through SDSR/PR12......don't hold your breath.
Batco
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Ref the OP's question:
I'm not in the know in any way but as the RAF has recently had it's MOB's cut then logic would dictate that RN/AAC will suffer similar cuts.
And if you look at the likely future size of AAC (~30 Wildcat and ~60 Apache) then consolidation of MOB's seems more probable than possible.
Feel sure the beancounters are mulling all "options" over as we speak
I'm not in the know in any way but as the RAF has recently had it's MOB's cut then logic would dictate that RN/AAC will suffer similar cuts.
And if you look at the likely future size of AAC (~30 Wildcat and ~60 Apache) then consolidation of MOB's seems more probable than possible.
Feel sure the beancounters are mulling all "options" over as we speak
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I'm sure this goes back a long way and and is probably linked into the MFTS solution for training bases.
Shawbury or Linton to Close by 2012
Posted 3rd Nov 2007, 16:19.
Looks like it might all be finally coming home to roost. Remember that the flying training system will probably be even smaller in the future than expected 5 years ago, so it may not only be one base that is lost!
Shawbury or Linton to Close by 2012
Posted 3rd Nov 2007, 16:19.
Like all good rumours this one has an element of truth. The MFTS competitors said they could do the job on 5 bases not the current six (the 6 are Cranwell, Culdrose,Linton, Middle Wallop, Shawbury and Valley). So its not just a toss-up between Linton and Shawbury its a 6 way spread bet. So time for fantasy training group: which 5 bases would you use and how would you lay down flying training from entry to before OCU for all 3 services on them? Of course feel free to use other bases and delete all 6 of the current ones but you'll need good reasoning to back that up.
Looks like it might all be finally coming home to roost. Remember that the flying training system will probably be even smaller in the future than expected 5 years ago, so it may not only be one base that is lost!
Last edited by LFFC; 12th Aug 2011 at 22:31.
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Fair observation. Close Cranwell (completely) and MW.
Send RAF POs to Sandhurst, and Army student pilots to Shawbury. Given the reduction in numbers, collapse Linton into Valley. Three airfields closed, crab officers get to find out all about "trying harder at school", output of flying training meets demand, jobza.
Send RAF POs to Sandhurst, and Army student pilots to Shawbury. Given the reduction in numbers, collapse Linton into Valley. Three airfields closed, crab officers get to find out all about "trying harder at school", output of flying training meets demand, jobza.
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Flying Training & Middle Wallop
The HALS is in the wrong place & the Fixed Wing runways cut the airfield into segments (which, to be honest, compromises effective flying operations for Rotary). Apache have to go elsewhere to simply fly circuits & other rotary spend much of their time training on Everleigh where there is no crash cover. MW isn't being operated as well as it could or should be. It needs to get rid of FW ops and build a HALS in the middle of the field and have a professional long-term view of how it would function best.
The Wildcat is probably going to Yeovilton so that leaves some Squirrels and the Apace Conversion Sqn (ignoring the dying Gazelle & single 212). Put the Apaches with all the others at Wattisham and safe a substantial amount in duplication of resources. The Squirrel training could easily be done at Shawbury but the over-reliance of civvy instructors wouldn't sit well with the AAC there. AAC ground training could be absorbed into any one of a load of bases within Southern or Eastern England - the numbers are small in comparison.
Much is always said of the 'strategic' proximity of SPTA, which has some validity but we are only talking 'skids-on' options here as most other training can be/is done in the general Low Flying System.
Training RAF pilots at Sandhurst is a top idea. The RAF Officer Training System is dreadful, especially the leadership training which is probably not much different to that conducted in Tescos (but with boots). The IOT course was extended by 3 months a few years back specifically to address leadership but some schooly-lefty pinko didn't make the connection with 'Military Leadership' so it's all group hug stuff and geared around admin staff.
On the topic of real estate, the Lynx sim is soon to be redundant, the Thales Apache Sim is in a shed which could move to Wattisham for less than the income from the real estate and the housing patch looks as though it was built for it's resale potential anyway.
Or we could just put the Pumas there when the Merlins go to the Navy and make all rotary pilots either Navy (Merlin & Sea King) or Army (Apache & Chinook) & close Benson instead?
The Wildcat is probably going to Yeovilton so that leaves some Squirrels and the Apace Conversion Sqn (ignoring the dying Gazelle & single 212). Put the Apaches with all the others at Wattisham and safe a substantial amount in duplication of resources. The Squirrel training could easily be done at Shawbury but the over-reliance of civvy instructors wouldn't sit well with the AAC there. AAC ground training could be absorbed into any one of a load of bases within Southern or Eastern England - the numbers are small in comparison.
Much is always said of the 'strategic' proximity of SPTA, which has some validity but we are only talking 'skids-on' options here as most other training can be/is done in the general Low Flying System.
Training RAF pilots at Sandhurst is a top idea. The RAF Officer Training System is dreadful, especially the leadership training which is probably not much different to that conducted in Tescos (but with boots). The IOT course was extended by 3 months a few years back specifically to address leadership but some schooly-lefty pinko didn't make the connection with 'Military Leadership' so it's all group hug stuff and geared around admin staff.
On the topic of real estate, the Lynx sim is soon to be redundant, the Thales Apache Sim is in a shed which could move to Wattisham for less than the income from the real estate and the housing patch looks as though it was built for it's resale potential anyway.
Or we could just put the Pumas there when the Merlins go to the Navy and make all rotary pilots either Navy (Merlin & Sea King) or Army (Apache & Chinook) & close Benson instead?
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If there is scope at Sandhurst to accept a larger training commitment; you should send the RLC Officers back there to learn how to manage and lead without reference to those skills previously learnt at Deepcut.
Wallop will soon enjoy the same status as Netheravon and Upavon. That HQ JHC was built away from an airfield might be politically correct insofar as not advertising single service biase, but for sure Defence Estates have missed a trick and so sealed the fate of DAAvn in its present state.
That said, IMHO the colocation of all helicopter support elements at an airfield such as Hullavington would have been the optimal if expensive answer. Even if no flying sqn was actually based there. However that boat has well and truly sailed, even though MoD Stafford or at least TSW in addition to Colerne (21 Sigs) could have closed and the JHSU hangar given back to Odiham for their new Chinooks. I suppose the same could be possible at Benson if and when Merlin flies away.
Wallop will soon enjoy the same status as Netheravon and Upavon. That HQ JHC was built away from an airfield might be politically correct insofar as not advertising single service biase, but for sure Defence Estates have missed a trick and so sealed the fate of DAAvn in its present state.
That said, IMHO the colocation of all helicopter support elements at an airfield such as Hullavington would have been the optimal if expensive answer. Even if no flying sqn was actually based there. However that boat has well and truly sailed, even though MoD Stafford or at least TSW in addition to Colerne (21 Sigs) could have closed and the JHSU hangar given back to Odiham for their new Chinooks. I suppose the same could be possible at Benson if and when Merlin flies away.
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"Training RAF pilots at Sandhurst is a top idea. The RAF Officer Training System is dreadful, especially the leadership training which is probably not much different to that conducted in Tescos (but with boots). The IOT course was extended by 3 months a few years back specifically to address leadership but some schooly-lefty pinko didn't make the connection with 'Military Leadership' so it's all group hug stuff and geared around admin staff." I have to disagree with that as its now out of date.
Although what is considered to be "robust training" varies depending upon how the term robust is interpreted, IOT has indeed been the subject of some adverse criticism, and I should know, having made some critical comments myself as an instructor of ex-IOT students on a Phase 2 course, but there has been a relatively recent overhaul of the IOT course, seemingly for the better as regards leadership and military values etc. Another issue is that the RAF, like most of the Military, can currently afford to be very choosy about who makes the grade and who doesn't. However, once the recruiting machine has to start winding up again (which it always does) there is always a temptation to let people through on the benefit of the doubt (Blimey, I bet one of them was me!)
As regards location, RAF Cranwell will always be the spiritual home of the RAF and so will never close (probably, well, who knows...).
Although what is considered to be "robust training" varies depending upon how the term robust is interpreted, IOT has indeed been the subject of some adverse criticism, and I should know, having made some critical comments myself as an instructor of ex-IOT students on a Phase 2 course, but there has been a relatively recent overhaul of the IOT course, seemingly for the better as regards leadership and military values etc. Another issue is that the RAF, like most of the Military, can currently afford to be very choosy about who makes the grade and who doesn't. However, once the recruiting machine has to start winding up again (which it always does) there is always a temptation to let people through on the benefit of the doubt (Blimey, I bet one of them was me!)
As regards location, RAF Cranwell will always be the spiritual home of the RAF and so will never close (probably, well, who knows...).
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Sorry for the thread drift, but it looks like another military training airfield is about to be closed as well.
Skydive Weston in Oxfordshire angry over closure.
Kind of works in nicely with this development just down the road:
London Oxford Airport to install new Radar System ready for the Olympics.
... and maybe the Weston Otmoor eco-town plan hasn't entirely gone away either.
Skydive Weston in Oxfordshire angry over closure.
The RAF said it could not underwrite the club and was reviewing how facilities at the base were used.
London Oxford Airport to install new Radar System ready for the Olympics.
With a steady increase in both business aviation traffic and aspirations to entice further commercial airline activity, the go-ahead for the new radar system is one of the most significant steps forward in the airport’s history.
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Completely disregarding such things as regimental/service histories and traditions for a moment, I can see the day in the distant future when our armed forces are combined under one banner in a similar fashion to the way the Canadians operate.
Our forces are shrinking in many ways and having fewer bases and camps to run is one by-product of this.
Our forces are shrinking in many ways and having fewer bases and camps to run is one by-product of this.
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'crab officers get to find out all about "trying harder at school"'
Where did this little Crab or Crabette officer gem start?
Why is it that all Crabs think that everyone aspires to be like them?
G
Where did this little Crab or Crabette officer gem start?
Why is it that all Crabs think that everyone aspires to be like them?
G
Last edited by gijoe; 13th Aug 2011 at 20:47. Reason: Fingers and thumbs...
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So basically we will be relying on the crabs to completely train Army pilots? Hmm, great idea. Means it will take a lot longer to beat those horrid civilianised traits they already pick up at Shawbury....
We have a few Lance Corporals who do but they tend to be over qualified.
Why is it that all Crabs think that everyone apsires to be like them?
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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similar fashion to the way the Canadians operate.
Wouldn't it be simpler to move AAC fixed wing flying to an existing fixed wing base and leave MW as 100% rotary?