CHF - Merlin Mk 4
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Oh yes, so it has.....................................n't
DSEi 2011: Puma 2 makes quiet progress | Shephard Group
Must try harder or whatever the Navy equivalent is
DSEi 2011: Puma 2 makes quiet progress | Shephard Group
Must try harder or whatever the Navy equivalent is
Wizard - all true but definitely an EC view of the world. Nimrod was flying and about to enter service and then was binned. The Puma has been a hot topic over the past few weeks - even more so since the 14 CH47s were contracted. As for it being the "preferred choice" for SF well, outside the urban environment that's a load of EC marketing spiel - even the extra tank and CAFTS isn't going to turn it into a long range insertion platform a la CH47/CV-22.
If I were in CHF, or a supporter of them, I'd be lobbying real hard for Puma 2; if the Puma is binned I can't see any way CAS will give up 2 Sqns of Merlins - I don't think a trite "he's been ordered" swings it. The original Transfer was predicated on 24 CH47s - if the RAF loses Puma as well as the 10 Chinooks it's not the same ballgame. IMHO it would be a transfer of Puma crews & numberplate to the new CH47 Sqn and probably the end of the road for CHF
If I were in CHF, or a supporter of them, I'd be lobbying real hard for Puma 2; if the Puma is binned I can't see any way CAS will give up 2 Sqns of Merlins - I don't think a trite "he's been ordered" swings it. The original Transfer was predicated on 24 CH47s - if the RAF loses Puma as well as the 10 Chinooks it's not the same ballgame. IMHO it would be a transfer of Puma crews & numberplate to the new CH47 Sqn and probably the end of the road for CHF
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Times Article
Interesting article in the Times this week with Dr Fox announcing (quietly) that the number of Seakings in Afhgan would be reduced due to the improving situation, and also to allow the crews to train on 'more capable airframes' in preparation for the SK withdrawal in 2016. Merlins per chance?
Just how long does it take for a qualified and combat ready member of rotary winged aircrew to convert to Merlin or even Wildcat?
I can understand that a cadre of experienced guys will set up and run the 700 series sqn which kicks off Merlin for the Navy but the essentials of operating the aircraft don't take four years, surely. The simulators at Benson, for example, provide type conversion and tactical instruction and one assumes there will be some secondment of crews to the RAF and vice versa.
I smell a political rat here! The rat in question could be nibbling in several different directions.
Old Duffer
I can understand that a cadre of experienced guys will set up and run the 700 series sqn which kicks off Merlin for the Navy but the essentials of operating the aircraft don't take four years, surely. The simulators at Benson, for example, provide type conversion and tactical instruction and one assumes there will be some secondment of crews to the RAF and vice versa.
I smell a political rat here! The rat in question could be nibbling in several different directions.
Old Duffer
High Spirits,
Whilst accepting the operational imperatives, I still don't buy the long timescales.
If the RN selects crews and begins to feed them into the conversion/training system; probably in lieu of RAF personnel, and if the RAF exchanges some personnel with the RN, it ought to be possible to declare at least one sqn operational in 18 months (set aside for a moment any navalisation required to the cabs themselves).
That sqn might perforce be based at Benson in the interim but there's no reason (as we've seen with Harrier) why a sqn manned by mixed crews cannot carry the 84? number plate and operate as such.
I'm not sure how many aircraft there are now (23 + 6 minus the one that was bent and a few out of the system for trials/upgrades etc).
My main concern hinges around the continued IMHO vulnerability of the Wildcat and Puma projects: let's hope I'm very wrong (Mrs O-D thinks I am most of the time).
O-D
Whilst accepting the operational imperatives, I still don't buy the long timescales.
If the RN selects crews and begins to feed them into the conversion/training system; probably in lieu of RAF personnel, and if the RAF exchanges some personnel with the RN, it ought to be possible to declare at least one sqn operational in 18 months (set aside for a moment any navalisation required to the cabs themselves).
That sqn might perforce be based at Benson in the interim but there's no reason (as we've seen with Harrier) why a sqn manned by mixed crews cannot carry the 84? number plate and operate as such.
I'm not sure how many aircraft there are now (23 + 6 minus the one that was bent and a few out of the system for trials/upgrades etc).
My main concern hinges around the continued IMHO vulnerability of the Wildcat and Puma projects: let's hope I'm very wrong (Mrs O-D thinks I am most of the time).
O-D
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O-D,
I suggest you go to Benson and talk to the boys and girls about how much resource is available at home; Aircrew , instructors and aircraft to train on. Add to that, support to Ops and you will quickly see how empty the pot is.
I have no doubt the transfer could take place on your timescale, but alas we live in austere times. I have said for some time that this will take a while due to resource shortage. I don't think I will be proved wrong.
I suggest you go to Benson and talk to the boys and girls about how much resource is available at home; Aircrew , instructors and aircraft to train on. Add to that, support to Ops and you will quickly see how empty the pot is.
I have no doubt the transfer could take place on your timescale, but alas we live in austere times. I have said for some time that this will take a while due to resource shortage. I don't think I will be proved wrong.
High Spirits,
Let's agree to disagree!
As an aside, I saw a letter in (I think) the Daily Torygraph t'other day which costed out the retention of Ark Royal - something like £115M to 2015. The writer then commented that Eric Pickles could find £250M to restore weekly bin collections.
Ipso facto, our armed forces can be left bare but at least the rubbish gets collected.
O-D
Let's agree to disagree!
As an aside, I saw a letter in (I think) the Daily Torygraph t'other day which costed out the retention of Ark Royal - something like £115M to 2015. The writer then commented that Eric Pickles could find £250M to restore weekly bin collections.
Ipso facto, our armed forces can be left bare but at least the rubbish gets collected.
O-D
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Currently we are coping quite nicely indeed without the Ark where as a whole swathe of the country are struggling with fortnightly bin collection so I see nothing wrong with Mr Pickles decision
Edited for accuracy
Edited for accuracy
Last edited by Seldomfitforpurpose; 2nd Oct 2011 at 19:54.
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Further delays and costs in the transfer of the Merlin Mk3/MK3As may occur in marinising them ... folding tail, folding rotor head (new stronger design required if BERP 4 blades want to be used by CHF), otherwise like Chinook they will not get into hangar on Ocean / Illustrious.
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I enjoy the friendly banter but I am afraid the plans remain in place, as a senior source told us today, whilst he berated the boys in light blue for hogging Joint posts.
That's if the MAA is really a Joint Organisation - it will be when the 3 star is deposed and made Head of Defence Safety or whatever!
Also glad to see today that TJB has made 3*
That's if the MAA is really a Joint Organisation - it will be when the 3 star is deposed and made Head of Defence Safety or whatever!
Also glad to see today that TJB has made 3*
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Buzz in the Swordfish Restaurant is that RN conversions start at the end of this year.
Si, when Timo goes off to be CinCAir/CAS (only one post from 2012) the test will be whether the RN get a shot at Dir MAA - no shortage of candidates this time. Of course with Timo at the top the battles will be fought in the open once again.
Interesting reportage of debate at Cranwell where Prof Eric was almost booed.
Si, when Timo goes off to be CinCAir/CAS (only one post from 2012) the test will be whether the RN get a shot at Dir MAA - no shortage of candidates this time. Of course with Timo at the top the battles will be fought in the open once again.
Interesting reportage of debate at Cranwell where Prof Eric was almost booed.