Reasons why i want to PVR......
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: S England
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Widger,
A good post and I don't disagree with your points, but you make my point, don't you? You had good reasons for leaving......... so you left. Many won't, but will still be on sites like this one, arguing why they should.
If you want to leave, but 'can't' because of the pension trap or boarding school trap, that is a life style choice and indicates that the pros still out weigh the cons for those individuals. You can't say that cons out weigh the pros and then choose to stay, it's a contradiction, isn't it?
A good post and I don't disagree with your points, but you make my point, don't you? You had good reasons for leaving......... so you left. Many won't, but will still be on sites like this one, arguing why they should.
If you want to leave, but 'can't' because of the pension trap or boarding school trap, that is a life style choice and indicates that the pros still out weigh the cons for those individuals. You can't say that cons out weigh the pros and then choose to stay, it's a contradiction, isn't it?
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I sympathise with those that are on the point of PVRing...I did so myself many years back now, and partly for similar reasons.
However...comma
Do not look at civvy employment through rose tinted glasses. It is madness to suggest that your "equivalents" in civvy street are on much more money...unless you are a doctor or similar.
It is equally nonsensical to suggest the civvy employers are better than public sector employers...again that just does not stack up.
There are well paid jobs out here and there are very good employers too. But there are shedloads of crap jobs and shedloads of very crap employers and they are in the massive majority.
Not trying to argue in anyway against the PVR message...just be truthful with yourself and take a major reality check before you pull the handle.
However...comma
Do not look at civvy employment through rose tinted glasses. It is madness to suggest that your "equivalents" in civvy street are on much more money...unless you are a doctor or similar.
It is equally nonsensical to suggest the civvy employers are better than public sector employers...again that just does not stack up.
There are well paid jobs out here and there are very good employers too. But there are shedloads of crap jobs and shedloads of very crap employers and they are in the massive majority.
Not trying to argue in anyway against the PVR message...just be truthful with yourself and take a major reality check before you pull the handle.
How To Reduce PVRs
A little over 10 years ago, I was asked by the CinC of the day (STC then) what could be done to improve pilot retention.
I responded: "Give me 3 squadrons of F-16s, and base them at Chivenor.
He invited me to leave his office!
I was serious, but I wasn't taken seriously!
That might still work now, even with the arrival of Typhoon!
I responded: "Give me 3 squadrons of F-16s, and base them at Chivenor.
He invited me to leave his office!
I was serious, but I wasn't taken seriously!
That might still work now, even with the arrival of Typhoon!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Erehwon
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Much is made of the volatility of civvy employment.
In the 10 years I flew commercially, I worked for 6 different companies. I enjoyed it.
I then was made redundant from EAT (DHL), it was the best thing that ever happened. I'm now working all the hours I want, minimum 37 hours and am treated as a valuable person with an opinion they WANT to hear.
For all the reasons I had when I exercised my NGR, however bad I thought it was then, it's factors worse now.
I have no idea how you guys/girls still serving manage to keep that top lip stiff. You have my respect.
I don't subscribe to the 'if you don't like it then leave' school as life is seldom that simple. It almost 'feels' like the betrayal of a dream for this pile of manure to be the new reality. Name one thing that's better . . .
But there are still dreams to be had in a new direction. Step out, you can be more masters of your own destiny than you are as politicians' punch bags.
Best of luck.
In the 10 years I flew commercially, I worked for 6 different companies. I enjoyed it.
I then was made redundant from EAT (DHL), it was the best thing that ever happened. I'm now working all the hours I want, minimum 37 hours and am treated as a valuable person with an opinion they WANT to hear.
For all the reasons I had when I exercised my NGR, however bad I thought it was then, it's factors worse now.
I have no idea how you guys/girls still serving manage to keep that top lip stiff. You have my respect.
I don't subscribe to the 'if you don't like it then leave' school as life is seldom that simple. It almost 'feels' like the betrayal of a dream for this pile of manure to be the new reality. Name one thing that's better . . .
But there are still dreams to be had in a new direction. Step out, you can be more masters of your own destiny than you are as politicians' punch bags.
Best of luck.
As TOFO says, there are some crap jobs out here...but do you need to take them?
It takes two people to get one job.
First, you have to be offered the job. Second, you have to accept the job - if you want it.
During the interview you should/could be offered a trip around the place of employment and If you're not offered it - Ask for one!
I didn't do the tour at one quite reputable place - and regretted not doing so. I left after qualifying for the minimum Pension as it would have been a waste to leave without it.
It's your career - you steer it.
It takes two people to get one job.
First, you have to be offered the job. Second, you have to accept the job - if you want it.
During the interview you should/could be offered a trip around the place of employment and If you're not offered it - Ask for one!
I didn't do the tour at one quite reputable place - and regretted not doing so. I left after qualifying for the minimum Pension as it would have been a waste to leave without it.
It's your career - you steer it.
Join Date: May 2007
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I remember asking the then head of manning (can't remember the title - AVM someone) at a conference at the RAeS whether he agreed with me that a career in the RAF and a proper family life were entirely incompatiable (he had set out in his talk that loads of people were leaving, and as I had just PVR'd I thought I'd be helpful....)
His answer...
"well.....I'm divorced...."
So that did it for me. And yes, my ac type went too..... but I still enjoyed the Tutor to the bitter end!
I'd agree with all those who have basically said if you are not happy, then PVR. Otherwise, you only have yourself to blame - and get on with it with less whining. Fun as it is to read of course
His answer...
"well.....I'm divorced...."
So that did it for me. And yes, my ac type went too..... but I still enjoyed the Tutor to the bitter end!
I'd agree with all those who have basically said if you are not happy, then PVR. Otherwise, you only have yourself to blame - and get on with it with less whining. Fun as it is to read of course
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: roughly near Everleigh DZ
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Stoppers,
Yup, spot on, bet you wouldn't have pvr'd when you were having fish & chips with KM in the champagne bar at the Burg Al Arab though...........
I thought about pvr but it seemed to involve some admin so couldn't be arrsed
Yup, spot on, bet you wouldn't have pvr'd when you were having fish & chips with KM in the champagne bar at the Burg Al Arab though...........
I thought about pvr but it seemed to involve some admin so couldn't be arrsed
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Oh, er, one other reason not to pvr,
You get home from night flying to find asian beach volleyball on C4,
I'm right behind the Kazakstani's, they're all over the Japanese girls at the mo.
mmm, sweet dreams all and happy endings....
You get home from night flying to find asian beach volleyball on C4,
I'm right behind the Kazakstani's, they're all over the Japanese girls at the mo.
mmm, sweet dreams all and happy endings....
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hiq et Ubique
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So why exactly did you start this thread? It seems to me that you have plenty of reasons to PVR, so go ahead, hit the button and stop the moaning.
Or are you looking for people to give you a cuddle and make you feel better, or a round of applause maybe? If that's the case, tell the people you know, those around you who care.
All you'll get on here are a load of people already on your band wagon, stirring up more bad-feeling, or people like me telling you to wind your neck in.
If you must do the Facebook thing and tell the world how you're feeling, do it with with actions and log on to JPA.
Good luck finding that greener grass, there's a lot of people out there looking for it.
Or are you looking for people to give you a cuddle and make you feel better, or a round of applause maybe? If that's the case, tell the people you know, those around you who care.
All you'll get on here are a load of people already on your band wagon, stirring up more bad-feeling, or people like me telling you to wind your neck in.
If you must do the Facebook thing and tell the world how you're feeling, do it with with actions and log on to JPA.
Good luck finding that greener grass, there's a lot of people out there looking for it.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Blimey MAD Boom, ease up fella. I don't see a problem with Pprune including 'Faceprune' threads and it makes a pleasant change (for me) from the 'we should have kept the Harrier' and 'my Service it better than your Service' tosh. These threads I ignore - it is only people expressing their views and I can choose whether I want to hear (read) them or not.
I am sure you will be interested to hear why I PVR'ed A very lucrative offer of an easy job in a sunny climate came along - for me it was a no brainer and in my case the sand is certainly browner on the other side.
Blue skies.
I am sure you will be interested to hear why I PVR'ed
A very lucrative offer of an easy job in a sunny climate came along - for me it was a no brainer and in my case the sand is certainly browner on the other side.Blue skies.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Perhaps people feel the need to post because they feel (rightly or wrongly) that the system is failing to listen to its most important asset, its people.
I pressed the button before I went OOA, it having come down to pure lifestyle/quality of life/enjoyment issues. I always promsied myself that the day I stopped enjoying it I would leave, that day happened back in October last year and having taken some time to consider my options (and making sure I at least had a CPL/IR in my pocket) I ejected.
Am I sad? Of course I am, I wanted to see out my service to 55. Do I blame the RAF for the decisions taken in SDSR? Not really, it was a sh*tty stick handed over by the politicians and they had no choice but to grab it. What has influenced my decision-making process since is the piss-poor management of personnel since. I don't mean at Stn lvl, I think they are doing all they can with what little they have but I no longer understand what the RAF is about, what sets it apart, what its aims and objectives are (sure they are written down somewhere but we haven't been following them for years) and this is from someone who has been in for 25 years.
I've rolled with the changes (for better or worse), sucked it up, manned up, dried my eyes etc etc etc. BUT, enough is enough. When an individual with 5000 hours, 2000 as a Captain, QFI experience on light and large 4-jet aircraft, simulator development experience, glass-cockpit experience, trials and eval experience, procurement experience and a shedload of other stuff is effectively chucked on the scrapheap without so much as a thank you (in fact CMD effectively indicated that Maritime Aviation in the RAF had been a complete waste of time, shows how much a politician knows. If he's got that impression from the Senior Management, then I've been working for the wrong outfit for 25 years), then it's time to ply my trade elsewhere.
To those who choose (and there is always a choice) to remain, I wish you the very best of luck. To those, like me, who decide to call it a day, man up, dry your eyes and look to the future!
I pressed the button before I went OOA, it having come down to pure lifestyle/quality of life/enjoyment issues. I always promsied myself that the day I stopped enjoying it I would leave, that day happened back in October last year and having taken some time to consider my options (and making sure I at least had a CPL/IR in my pocket) I ejected.
Am I sad? Of course I am, I wanted to see out my service to 55. Do I blame the RAF for the decisions taken in SDSR? Not really, it was a sh*tty stick handed over by the politicians and they had no choice but to grab it. What has influenced my decision-making process since is the piss-poor management of personnel since. I don't mean at Stn lvl, I think they are doing all they can with what little they have but I no longer understand what the RAF is about, what sets it apart, what its aims and objectives are (sure they are written down somewhere but we haven't been following them for years) and this is from someone who has been in for 25 years.
I've rolled with the changes (for better or worse), sucked it up, manned up, dried my eyes etc etc etc. BUT, enough is enough. When an individual with 5000 hours, 2000 as a Captain, QFI experience on light and large 4-jet aircraft, simulator development experience, glass-cockpit experience, trials and eval experience, procurement experience and a shedload of other stuff is effectively chucked on the scrapheap without so much as a thank you (in fact CMD effectively indicated that Maritime Aviation in the RAF had been a complete waste of time, shows how much a politician knows. If he's got that impression from the Senior Management, then I've been working for the wrong outfit for 25 years), then it's time to ply my trade elsewhere.
To those who choose (and there is always a choice) to remain, I wish you the very best of luck. To those, like me, who decide to call it a day, man up, dry your eyes and look to the future!
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Tante Grazie
It's hotter than a snake's ass in a wagon rut out here. It's so hot........etc.
Thoroughly enjoyed the first week in post, it's diffferent and I think we are making a difference (only time will really tell!). First time in a year I have actually felt like I am making a contribution, shame it will be my last!
Take care,
Ciao.
Thoroughly enjoyed the first week in post, it's diffferent and I think we are making a difference (only time will really tell!). First time in a year I have actually felt like I am making a contribution, shame it will be my last!
Take care,
Ciao.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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SFO,
Nail squarely on head.
Glad to see you've found yourself something decent on the other side.
Am I right in thinking you may have been a QFI at a certain non-scouse UAS at the RAF's premier airfield in the North-west?
Father Jack
Nail squarely on head.
Glad to see you've found yourself something decent on the other side.
Am I right in thinking you may have been a QFI at a certain non-scouse UAS at the RAF's premier airfield in the North-west?
Father Jack
Join Date: Mar 2003
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[quoteSo why exactly did you start this thread? It seems to me that you have plenty of reasons to PVR, so go ahead, hit the button and stop the moaning. ][/quote]
There really is no need for this kind of attitud., The fact is that people have had enough of the constantly changing, and degrading of the TOS, that most feel that the only option left is to leave.
When the RAF take away (throw away) all you have ever known, it is no wonder people are worried, and concerned for their future.
I do not know the answer, but some kind of solidarity among those remaining in the RAF would be a good start. Back-stabbing and bitching is exactly what the gov'ment want to hear.
Y_G
There really is no need for this kind of attitud., The fact is that people have had enough of the constantly changing, and degrading of the TOS, that most feel that the only option left is to leave.
When the RAF take away (throw away) all you have ever known, it is no wonder people are worried, and concerned for their future.
I do not know the answer, but some kind of solidarity among those remaining in the RAF would be a good start. Back-stabbing and bitching is exactly what the gov'ment want to hear.
Y_G
