RAF "Running Hot"
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The opposition [Ghadafi and Co] must read this stuff and gain from it. The Taliban/Iran and any other 'bastard' out there who hates us must be quacking in their boots reading that the West is going broke and can't support their armed forces. This was how the Soviet Union failed... Are we next?
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"This was how the Soviet Union failed... Are we next?"
yep. the Chinese and Indians will inherit the Earth
what does the west have? Collapsing economy, dwindling industrial manufacturing capacity, increasingly aging effeminate, dilletante, morbidly fat unfit, ill and unskilled population, with rapidly diminishing natural reosurces and gutless clueless governments who play-act politics instead of actually running the country for survival
Best thing we could do is stand down our armed forces and use the money saved to pay the Indians to protect our interests globally. We outsource everything else to them, why not outsource our wars?
At least the Indians know whats required. Check how many Somali pirates they've arrested and sunk, compared to our efforts
yep. the Chinese and Indians will inherit the Earth
what does the west have? Collapsing economy, dwindling industrial manufacturing capacity, increasingly aging effeminate, dilletante, morbidly fat unfit, ill and unskilled population, with rapidly diminishing natural reosurces and gutless clueless governments who play-act politics instead of actually running the country for survival
Best thing we could do is stand down our armed forces and use the money saved to pay the Indians to protect our interests globally. We outsource everything else to them, why not outsource our wars?
At least the Indians know whats required. Check how many Somali pirates they've arrested and sunk, compared to our efforts
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Quote from Armed Forces Minister Nick Harvey 'But the MoD continued to have the resources necessary to carry out operations as the UK's efforts in Libya and Afghanistan showed, he added.'
Seems rather like an intensive care doctor saying 'Our intervention has kept the patient alive therefore he/she is capable of running a marathon whilst juggling 6 burning clubs and rewriting the general theory of relativity'
Seems rather like an intensive care doctor saying 'Our intervention has kept the patient alive therefore he/she is capable of running a marathon whilst juggling 6 burning clubs and rewriting the general theory of relativity'
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A bit late...
With all due respect to ACM Bryant..
It's a bit late now- it was blatently obviously to anyone at grass roots level that Ellamy was going to have problems with sustainment if it ran longer than a couple of months.
Whilst we plebs don't know what goes on in the corridors of power- was all this communicated to the politicians?
Or was it a case of 'oh great it's a war, lets get stuck in so we don't get any more cuts and worry about what happens in two months'?
It's a bit late now- it was blatently obviously to anyone at grass roots level that Ellamy was going to have problems with sustainment if it ran longer than a couple of months.
Whilst we plebs don't know what goes on in the corridors of power- was all this communicated to the politicians?
Or was it a case of 'oh great it's a war, lets get stuck in so we don't get any more cuts and worry about what happens in two months'?
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Methinks that DC ought to do a lot more "listening" to what his military advisors (of all services) are telling him.
As I have said before on pprune, meaningful foreign policy and defence costs ££££'s and the polititians (all parties) need to decide what priority to give to this. If the answer is only £££, or worse ££ then it is time to get off the world stage, give up membership of NATO, the UN security council, and then perhaps we might have a sustainable defence policy.
What is happening is that the MOD spouts the political message, Nick Harvey continues to deny the reality of the effects of 20 years continuous opeations and his government continue to proceed with further planned cuts regardless.
It's the old economic dilemma of "guns or butter" where you can have one but not both. In an unpredictable world, wars in Afg and Libya, instability across regions of the world which matter to the UK's future - there is in fact a strong case for additional defence spending not less IMHO.
Carry on like this and in 2015 we won't have anything left apart from 2 big boats without a trained worked-up crew, with no aircraft or weapons and 4 ageing SSBN's (all without any escorts); and the army (what's left of it) will be without any FJ, SH or AT.
What is worse is the effect on morale, recruitment and retention - all the hard-won experience, expensive training and goodwill will be lost for ever. I though things were turning bad in the 1980's after "options for change" when I was in the RAF but looking back they were halcyon days......
MB
As I have said before on pprune, meaningful foreign policy and defence costs ££££'s and the polititians (all parties) need to decide what priority to give to this. If the answer is only £££, or worse ££ then it is time to get off the world stage, give up membership of NATO, the UN security council, and then perhaps we might have a sustainable defence policy.
What is happening is that the MOD spouts the political message, Nick Harvey continues to deny the reality of the effects of 20 years continuous opeations and his government continue to proceed with further planned cuts regardless.
It's the old economic dilemma of "guns or butter" where you can have one but not both. In an unpredictable world, wars in Afg and Libya, instability across regions of the world which matter to the UK's future - there is in fact a strong case for additional defence spending not less IMHO.
Carry on like this and in 2015 we won't have anything left apart from 2 big boats without a trained worked-up crew, with no aircraft or weapons and 4 ageing SSBN's (all without any escorts); and the army (what's left of it) will be without any FJ, SH or AT.
What is worse is the effect on morale, recruitment and retention - all the hard-won experience, expensive training and goodwill will be lost for ever. I though things were turning bad in the 1980's after "options for change" when I was in the RAF but looking back they were halcyon days......
MB
This was a report to MPs that has been leaked so CinC won't get a shoeing but there wiLl be the inevitable search for the guilty in MB, even though its as likely the leak could have been within the Palace of Westminster.
But much of what has been supported as said was also in the Haddon-Cave report sect 19.34 onwards
But much of what has been supported as said was also in the Haddon-Cave report sect 19.34 onwards
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I have no doubt that 'Call Me Dave' will want to 'shoot the messenger' - with apologies to Sir Simon!
I said to Mrs Whisty, when CMD so eagerly called for the No Fly zone in Libya - 'Truly the heir to Blair'. Desperately keen to secure his place in history as a determined war leader. Truly breathtakingly stupid ignorance of history involving us in another nation's civil disturbances.
I also said that I would bet a pound to a pinch of racoon's poo poo that, like the great Kirkaldian, he would not be willing to pay for it. It's easy being right about politicians - just adopt cynicism as the default systems mode!
One rather suspects that should CMD get shirty with CinC Air, Sir Simon will not be confuseable with anyone who gives a sh*t. Peeps like he will rise to great challenges in any field they choose.
Peeps like CMD have extremely limited skill sets; lying, thieving, getting the wrong people killed and causing FREDs (thats F'ing Ridiculous Economic Disasters!). I was going to say that I would be disappointed if one of my kids became a politician but, on reflection, I believe that I would be disappointed if one of my turds became a politician.
I said to Mrs Whisty, when CMD so eagerly called for the No Fly zone in Libya - 'Truly the heir to Blair'. Desperately keen to secure his place in history as a determined war leader. Truly breathtakingly stupid ignorance of history involving us in another nation's civil disturbances.
I also said that I would bet a pound to a pinch of racoon's poo poo that, like the great Kirkaldian, he would not be willing to pay for it. It's easy being right about politicians - just adopt cynicism as the default systems mode!
One rather suspects that should CMD get shirty with CinC Air, Sir Simon will not be confuseable with anyone who gives a sh*t. Peeps like he will rise to great challenges in any field they choose.
Peeps like CMD have extremely limited skill sets; lying, thieving, getting the wrong people killed and causing FREDs (thats F'ing Ridiculous Economic Disasters!). I was going to say that I would be disappointed if one of my kids became a politician but, on reflection, I believe that I would be disappointed if one of my turds became a politician.
Whilst we plebs don't know what goes on in the corridors of power- was all this communicated to the politicians?
The problems diminish the higher up the structure they go because nobody wants to be a failure.
Result - Politicians are none the wiser for SAC Bloggs having to do back to back tours because there is no cover.
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I can't see how anyone can get a 'kicking' for this leak. If it were a statement to MPs wouln't it be available via Hansard anyway?
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You do the fighting, I'll do the talking...
THS
Seems as though the ACM has just had a boot up the a**e.
BBC News - PM attacks RAF warning over Libya
Seems as though the ACM has just had a boot up the a**e.
BBC News - PM attacks RAF warning over Libya
Last edited by Grabbers; 21st Jun 2011 at 11:36. Reason: d'oh, forgot the link
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The prime minister has criticised military chiefs who have spoken out in public about the UK's role in Libya.
It comes after the RAF's second-in-command said "huge" demands were being placed on equipment and personnel.
Mr Cameron said: "There are moments when I wake up and read the newspapers and think: 'I tell you what, you do the fighting and I'll do the talking'."
Last week, the head of the Royal Navy also questioned whether the operation in Libya could be sustained.
Speaking at a news conference in London, Mr Cameron said: "I'm absolutely confident that we can keep this pressure up, we can maintain this mission for as long as is necessary.
BBC News - PM attacks RAF warning over Libya
It comes after the RAF's second-in-command said "huge" demands were being placed on equipment and personnel.
Mr Cameron said: "There are moments when I wake up and read the newspapers and think: 'I tell you what, you do the fighting and I'll do the talking'."
Last week, the head of the Royal Navy also questioned whether the operation in Libya could be sustained.
Speaking at a news conference in London, Mr Cameron said: "I'm absolutely confident that we can keep this pressure up, we can maintain this mission for as long as is necessary.
BBC News - PM attacks RAF warning over Libya
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I think perhaps the PM may have aimed at the wrong target here, if there is any 'wrong doer' here it is sure the leak?
ACM Bryant was responding to questions from MPs which are something that the military are, with a few exceptions, compelled to answer. That the answer to those questions may not please the PM when he is eating his toast is one thing, the fact that those answers leaked from the Palace of Westminster though is more an issue for those who command than those who serve.
I wonder if anyone from the Army will step up to the plate now that the RN and RAF have been publically slapped down for voicing their concerns through various channels or are they a little too close to the Conservatives?
ACM Bryant was responding to questions from MPs which are something that the military are, with a few exceptions, compelled to answer. That the answer to those questions may not please the PM when he is eating his toast is one thing, the fact that those answers leaked from the Palace of Westminster though is more an issue for those who command than those who serve.
I wonder if anyone from the Army will step up to the plate now that the RN and RAF have been publically slapped down for voicing their concerns through various channels or are they a little too close to the Conservatives?
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One always thought the RAF never ran anywhere 
As for Teflon Dave, how long does he think he can keep on ignoring the basic facts and those employed to give him those facts, one does love his I will do the talking attitude....... all so much hot air.
As for Teflon Dave, how long does he think he can keep on ignoring the basic facts and those employed to give him those facts, one does love his I will do the talking attitude....... all so much hot air.