Goodbye Para Pay?
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We need the Para's if the UK has expeditionary aspirations but why must they be paid this all the time? on top of this why do Submariners get submarine pay when skimmers only get sea pay when (gasp!) AT SEA!
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A_A
1st I don't believe that Service personnel could ever be paid enough, But I think most of them know that and lets face it, If its money that is your motivation for joining up then your joining for the wrong reason.
...I'm sorry but if you wanted to do it then money shouldn't have been a consideration, maybe its me, but having worked at faslavatory for 8 years and seen plenty of JR's turning to for work in BMW's one can only surmise that the pay isn't that bad.
... in fact - as a PTO in the Civil Serpents (LT RN Equiv) I was paid less per day than a Killick Weaponeer RNR (My "Hobby") so yes, you weren't paid enough but more than your civilian counterparts. and BTW - I went to sea for a day on board an SSN and cant understand what all the fuss is about.
...getting well dug in now..
1st I don't believe that Service personnel could ever be paid enough, But I think most of them know that and lets face it, If its money that is your motivation for joining up then your joining for the wrong reason.
Would you bother with the level of commitment and all the crap that goes with it simply to be treated as just another schmuk or would you, reasonably, expect to be given some small reward for your consistent and continuous commitment? £6 a day is nothing for the amount of work these people do daily to remain fit for duty... I ran 6-10 miles a day with a 55lb pack every day for £4 and that was 25+ years ago... Don't tell me I was overpaid, please...
... in fact - as a PTO in the Civil Serpents (LT RN Equiv) I was paid less per day than a Killick Weaponeer RNR (My "Hobby") so yes, you weren't paid enough but more than your civilian counterparts. and BTW - I went to sea for a day on board an SSN and cant understand what all the fuss is about.
...getting well dug in now..
What are we back to in Combat Jumps then....Suez Canal in the 50's?
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althenick,
Who exactly are our civilian counterparts? I can't think of anyone employed in the civil service that spends as many nights out of bed in uninviting, often hostile environments doing the type of work done by our soldiers, sailors and airmen . I have no doubt that money was not the driving motivator when we all volunteered our services, but, it certainly plays a part in how long we continue to put up with the separation from our loved ones and the often punishing hours we are required to put in to do more with less.
I have no doubt that civil servants have an important role to play, but don't kid yourself on that just because the tax payer pays your wages, you're able to draw a direct comparison with anyone in the Armed Forces.
(Oh, and the Civil Service grade you quoted as a "Lt RN equivilant" is no such thing. It is merely a mechanism for determining what grade of accomadation you are entitiled to should you have to spend the odd night out of bed!)
Who exactly are our civilian counterparts? I can't think of anyone employed in the civil service that spends as many nights out of bed in uninviting, often hostile environments doing the type of work done by our soldiers, sailors and airmen . I have no doubt that money was not the driving motivator when we all volunteered our services, but, it certainly plays a part in how long we continue to put up with the separation from our loved ones and the often punishing hours we are required to put in to do more with less.
I have no doubt that civil servants have an important role to play, but don't kid yourself on that just because the tax payer pays your wages, you're able to draw a direct comparison with anyone in the Armed Forces.
(Oh, and the Civil Service grade you quoted as a "Lt RN equivilant" is no such thing. It is merely a mechanism for determining what grade of accomadation you are entitiled to should you have to spend the odd night out of bed!)
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I went to sea for a day on board an SSN and cant understand what all the fuss is about.
I ran 6-10 miles a day with a 55lb pack every day for £4 and that was 25+ years ago... Don't tell me I was overpaid, please...
Last edited by Trim Stab; 27th May 2011 at 16:43.
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Practically mass parachute jumps went out after WW2
right now we'd be hard pressed to get enough planes together to drop a Battalion and when every local kid has an AK-47 the casualty rate would be worse than Arnhem
The Paras are an "elite regiment" the British Army has a real problem with this sort of thing - what they need are more of the PBI but we prefer to keep an antiquated skill instead
right now we'd be hard pressed to get enough planes together to drop a Battalion and when every local kid has an AK-47 the casualty rate would be worse than Arnhem
The Paras are an "elite regiment" the British Army has a real problem with this sort of thing - what they need are more of the PBI but we prefer to keep an antiquated skill instead
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TS:
I'm afraid not old chap... An Airborne soldier starts many hours before his battle will begin drawing and prepping kit, weapons, rations, comms etc. He then flies for hours, often at low level before throwing himself from the aircraft with 100+lbs of equipment and 50lbs of parachutes. As he does this he finds himself in a unique situation for an attacker. He's outnumbered and surrounded. Upon landing he reorgs and marches as much as twenty miles with that 100+lbs of kit. Then the battle begins... They begin the process knowing that 10% of them will not survive to see P-Hour +1 and in a worst case scenario 70% will be lost in the first 24 hours. That, dear chap, is why we run so much with heavy weights... Because we start fighting at a point where others would be spent... 
No infantryman does all that... It's why most infantrymen are infantrymen. Because they either chose not to go through selection or because they are well aware that they are not up to it, (that is not a criticism of them - not everyone can be a submariner either - I sure as hell wouldn't want to be one).
Heathrow:
Yet another short sighted opinion. Were we to end up fighting China, India or such powers rather than pee-ant little tinpot dictators in small countries with piddly little cowardly armies then you might be correct. However, since I'm quite confident that you cannot state categorically that we won't be fighting a significant enemy in the future then I'm happy to point out that your opinion is naive. Did you ever throw something away only to think, a few days later, "Darn, I could have used that for this..."?
Why should you get paid more just for running around with a backpack on? That's what infantry do.
No infantryman does all that... It's why most infantrymen are infantrymen. Because they either chose not to go through selection or because they are well aware that they are not up to it, (that is not a criticism of them - not everyone can be a submariner either - I sure as hell wouldn't want to be one).
Heathrow:
but we prefer to keep an antiquated skill instead
I'm afraid not old chap... An Airborne soldier starts many hours before his battle will begin drawing and prepping kit, weapons, rations, comms etc. He then flies for hours, often at low level before throwing himself from the aircraft with 100+lbs of equipment and 50lbs of parachutes. As he does this he finds himself in a unique situation for an attacker. He's outnumbered and surrounded. Upon landing he reorgs and marches as much as twenty miles with that 100+lbs of kit. Then the battle begins... They begin the process knowing that 10% of them will not survive to see P-Hour +1 and in a worst case scenario 70% will be lost in the first 24 hours. That, dear chap, is why we run so much with heavy weights... Because we start fighting at a point where others would be spent...
Speciality pay NOW should go to linguists, int experts, EOD guys. They're today's spearhead soldiers, not paras.
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I'm afraid not old chap... An Airborne soldier starts many hours before his battle will begin drawing and prepping kit, weapons, rations, comms etc. He then flies for hours, often at low level before throwing himself from the aircraft with 100+lbs of equipment and 50lbs of parachutes. As he does this he finds himself in a unique situation for an attacker. He's outnumbered and surrounded. Upon landing he reorgs and marches as much as twenty miles with that 100+lbs of kit. Then the battle begins... They begin the process knowing that 10% of them will not survive to see P-Hour +1 and in a worst case scenario 70% will be lost in the first 24 hours. That, dear chap, is why we run so much with heavy weights... Because we start fighting at a point where others would be spent...
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RA:
Lesson 1: Know your enemy.
My nickname has two parts... Think!
Lesson 2: Never underestimate your enemy.
I'm earning a nice six figures doing highly technical work. Not everyone wants to do the easy stuff first - some of us wanted some fun first.
You're not a very good troll... One hopes you can afford your internet connection.
Lesson 1: Know your enemy.
OMG Airborne you are even more of a hero than minidumb. I am however slightly confused as to why your prune name is Airborne Aircrew. You hung underneath some silk and a few strings. You can’t really count that as being aircrew.
Lesson 2: Never underestimate your enemy.
What you have to realise is that you don't have to be very bright to be a para, in fact the thicker the better as you then don't really realise what you are actually letting yourself in for. If you had worked harder at school you could have joined as a Technician and enjoyed a better standard of living
You're not a very good troll... One hopes you can afford your internet connection.
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My nickname has two parts
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Airborne Aircrew.
I really do think you should be agreeing with TS and his comments.
"AA - been there done that, got the t-shirt and more. I still don't uderstand why you think paras should be paid more than other infantry. Speciality pay should be linked to what is relevant NOW rather than what was relevant fifty years ago."
Bearing in mind his age, he was clearly telling you that during his time as a meat bomb his skills were irrelevant
Oh, but he still took the pay for being useless and outmoded in modern times
I really do think you should be agreeing with TS and his comments.
"AA - been there done that, got the t-shirt and more. I still don't uderstand why you think paras should be paid more than other infantry. Speciality pay should be linked to what is relevant NOW rather than what was relevant fifty years ago."
Bearing in mind his age, he was clearly telling you that during his time as a meat bomb his skills were irrelevant
Oh, but he still took the pay for being useless and outmoded in modern times
Parachuting is a bit over rated is it not....after all it is just a means of getting to work for Para's and Paratroopers.
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I knew a chap who went aircrew, having been a para, I could imagine him having a similar nickname without being confused, I can also imagine slightly dense people struggling to follow the idea, despite hints.
The paras have demonstrated often enough that they are superlative soldiers however delivered to the battlefield, they are bloody tough and run on duracells when they need to - I would have thought that in a world future where we weren't going to fight major conflicts but lots of police actions and suchlike (otherwise we wouldn't be getting rid of the RN, tanks, MPA, and all the other bits and bobs that are confidently expected to be surplus to requirements) then we'd want as high a quality soldier as possible. Please tell me how making the forces into a small, amorphous blob improves our ability to do more with less?
Honestly, it's like watching dogs fighting over scraps here, every time the flaming politicians decide to trim another fiver off the defence budget there's an unholy rush to pick one of our own to have a go at in the hope of drawing blood. I'll laugh my **** off the day the Isle of Man invades.
The paras have demonstrated often enough that they are superlative soldiers however delivered to the battlefield, they are bloody tough and run on duracells when they need to - I would have thought that in a world future where we weren't going to fight major conflicts but lots of police actions and suchlike (otherwise we wouldn't be getting rid of the RN, tanks, MPA, and all the other bits and bobs that are confidently expected to be surplus to requirements) then we'd want as high a quality soldier as possible. Please tell me how making the forces into a small, amorphous blob improves our ability to do more with less?
Honestly, it's like watching dogs fighting over scraps here, every time the flaming politicians decide to trim another fiver off the defence budget there's an unholy rush to pick one of our own to have a go at in the hope of drawing blood. I'll laugh my **** off the day the Isle of Man invades.
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Hi to all, and thanks for the replies, I'll try and answer them as respectfully as possible as I did not mean to inflame...
Done it for charity - scared the **** out of me' also been on the end of an RAF SK winch - didnt like that either (The Pilot thought I could do with inspecting the port funnel on my ship - either that or he was crap 
) - my point is that you do it because you want to do it. if HMG gave you good people a 50% pay increase tomorrow I would be the last to complain. But remember your there by choice.
Then why did I have responsibilty for comms projects that required the navy/ RAF to provide LT and above? I never believed this myself until i became a Project Manager.
And BTW when in Moscow camp (belfast - became my 2nd home) I always got accom in the SR's mess - The officers mess was always full of - officers!
I'll bet you've flown in an aircraft too... Not quite the same as jumping out of it though, is it?
) - my point is that you do it because you want to do it. if HMG gave you good people a 50% pay increase tomorrow I would be the last to complain. But remember your there by choice.
(Oh, and the Civil Service grade you quoted as a "Lt RN equivilant" is no such thing. It is merely a mechanism for determining what grade of accomadation you are entitiled to should you have to spend the odd night out of bed!)
And BTW when in Moscow camp (belfast - became my 2nd home) I always got accom in the SR's mess - The officers mess was always full of - officers!
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althenick,
Well done you for spending the night in Moscow camp
, join the club. What do you want - a biscuit? Project Manager, well done again. But as far as where you think you stand in military terms, my statement still stands (ask the RSM at Arborfield who threw all the civil servents who apparently had "equivalent rank" status out of his mess when they decided to book themselves a room and frequent the bar without asking)!
You still haven't answered my first question on who exactly does what we do under the same conditions in the civil service? That is / was the point here!
Have a nice weekend
Well done you for spending the night in Moscow camp
, join the club. What do you want - a biscuit? Project Manager, well done again. But as far as where you think you stand in military terms, my statement still stands (ask the RSM at Arborfield who threw all the civil servents who apparently had "equivalent rank" status out of his mess when they decided to book themselves a room and frequent the bar without asking)!You still haven't answered my first question on who exactly does what we do under the same conditions in the civil service? That is / was the point here!
Have a nice weekend