Typhoon Pilots 'unfit for flying' Sent Home
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Yes but there is a difference between a detachment declared dry at the outset and a group of serving personnel in Cyprus being deprived of recreational drinks by the foolish actions of 2 people in Italy, and the poorly thought out reaction of a detachment commander.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Jane, it was you that drew attention to alcohol being a western problem when as you must admit it is more universal.
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Remarkably astute of you. But I fail to see how this stunning observation impacts upon the subject under discussion. Perhaps you could drag me up to your level of enlightenment?
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I do like to see the Cold War Warriors getting all flustered beneath their tartan rugs and hear the irate rustling of their copies of the Daily Mail. Given that most of you spent most of your time serving between conflicts, your views of current operational practices are welcome. Historical, but welcome.
I maintain that alcohol and being (in command whilst) on operations must be balanced very carefully. If you can't balance them, you should concentrate on the task in hand and have a shandy when you get back. Given we're all anon here, I don't see what your point is on that front.
I maintain that alcohol and being (in command whilst) on operations must be balanced very carefully. If you can't balance them, you should concentrate on the task in hand and have a shandy when you get back. Given we're all anon here, I don't see what your point is on that front.
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Good point there mr dutch cap. If you are struggling with your balance whilst drinking that could a sign that you have drunk too much. As for drinking shandy what are you? You're a big girls blouse that's what you are. Only girls and logistics officers drink shandy, unless you are thinking of having a different type of shandy when you get home.
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@ Really Annoyed
Don't think we claim to be naughtier...drinking and shagging being grown up pastimes and basically legal (provided nobodies 10 year old daughter is involved). Perhaps it is just human nature for old timers to see their service through rose tinted glasses. That said it was the increasing prevalence and self importance of the fun police that provided a great deal of the "push" factor when I legged it.
One other thing...what's with jumping on here, complaining about the content and context of every thread. Little bit weird don't you think?
I am addicted to Pprune because I am a sad old loser with nothing to do but count my huge pension every day...what's your excuse?
Don't think we claim to be naughtier...drinking and shagging being grown up pastimes and basically legal (provided nobodies 10 year old daughter is involved). Perhaps it is just human nature for old timers to see their service through rose tinted glasses. That said it was the increasing prevalence and self importance of the fun police that provided a great deal of the "push" factor when I legged it.
One other thing...what's with jumping on here, complaining about the content and context of every thread. Little bit weird don't you think?
I am addicted to Pprune because I am a sad old loser with nothing to do but count my huge pension every day...what's your excuse?
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after reading so much guff in this thread and so much mutual self-justification of the unacceptable, I now begin to understand why Duncan Sandys was so keen on missiles.
Its also interesting that all the "support" of these two seems to come from RAF (or ex-RAF) members. I see (apparently) nowt from naval crews or overseas commentators.
Its also interesting that all the "support" of these two seems to come from RAF (or ex-RAF) members. I see (apparently) nowt from naval crews or overseas commentators.
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Jamesdevice
Erm, no
I find myself in the unfamiliar position of defending crabs.
The RN generally doesn't beat itself up about alcohol. We quite enjoy it! Having spent some time on a US dry carrier, I know just how bad they are.
Erm, no
I find myself in the unfamiliar position of defending crabs.
The RN generally doesn't beat itself up about alcohol. We quite enjoy it! Having spent some time on a US dry carrier, I know just how bad they are.
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Its also interesting that all the "support" of these two seems to come from RAF (or ex-RAF) members. I see (apparently) nowt from naval crews or overseas commentators.
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JamesDevice,
Are you a military aviator? Genuine question as I'm interested in your mindset.
Cannot defend these chaps too hard, but I'm disappointed that there are some around here that are opposed to the idea of "looking after your own."
From what I've heard, the Gioia police and locals were not upset with the chaps in anyway, just wanted to make sure they were home safe. The incident was blown up by the RAFP whose number was the only the local feds had.
It seems this particular Flt Lt PC Plod's mission is to punish and clamp rather than protect and support.
My guess is that it was someone in his department that leaked the story.....
Are you a military aviator? Genuine question as I'm interested in your mindset.
Cannot defend these chaps too hard, but I'm disappointed that there are some around here that are opposed to the idea of "looking after your own."
From what I've heard, the Gioia police and locals were not upset with the chaps in anyway, just wanted to make sure they were home safe. The incident was blown up by the RAFP whose number was the only the local feds had.
It seems this particular Flt Lt PC Plod's mission is to punish and clamp rather than protect and support.
My guess is that it was someone in his department that leaked the story.....
Last edited by TurbineTooHot; 30th May 2011 at 19:15.
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As I mentioned on another thread:
To repeat myself, I have the utmost respect for those on operations, and those who have been. But for those here who use their experiences in a high moralistic and willy-waving manner, do please f**k off chaps.
I have the utmost admiration for those of any generation who are or have been on active service, and continue to show my respect in a variety of ways. I have less time for those few who choose to denigrate the many who have had little or no 'operational' experience. Following WW2, they all wore their uniforms voluntarily, and that most were never exposed to enemy action does not detract from their readiness to do so in the professional manner of their day, often in difficult circumstances. Their relative lack of medals is thankfully a sign of a slightly more peaceful yesteryear, which can be regarded as partly due to their contribution.
Jindy, if I recall that comment might have been directed at me, but as I am sure you can appreciate there has been a huge culture change over the last 10-15 years across the Services in general and the RAF in particular. Getting rat-arsed in the Mally, Schnelly or the Mess on a Clutch airfield in a predominantly 8-5 air force - frequent Tacevals notwithstanding - is a world away from ops over Libya or, in particular Afghanistan. I find that I have little time for the 'desert dodgers' (qv) and they will get their professional comeuppance.
As acting Det Cdr I sent 2 guys home from a ME location just after 9/11 because of alcohol issues - the locals would have been rather less accommodating than either the Polizia or the Caribineiri.
The matter was dealt Sqn Ldr to Sqn Ldr and nothing was written up. I wish I had, in retrospect, because this was part of a pattern of behaviour of one of the guys and the matter ended up in Court. Earlier professional intervention may have avoided this from getting far, far worse.
Don't take those un supporting of these guys as prudes. I like to drink and it is a key feature of my hosting duties in my current and sadly final appointment as SRAFO. But these guys knew the rules and are grown up enough to know what was expected of them. I agree that its a pity that the story got into the public domain - but as I mentioned before, our people are under 24/7 scrutiny.
As acting Det Cdr I sent 2 guys home from a ME location just after 9/11 because of alcohol issues - the locals would have been rather less accommodating than either the Polizia or the Caribineiri.
The matter was dealt Sqn Ldr to Sqn Ldr and nothing was written up. I wish I had, in retrospect, because this was part of a pattern of behaviour of one of the guys and the matter ended up in Court. Earlier professional intervention may have avoided this from getting far, far worse.
Don't take those un supporting of these guys as prudes. I like to drink and it is a key feature of my hosting duties in my current and sadly final appointment as SRAFO. But these guys knew the rules and are grown up enough to know what was expected of them. I agree that its a pity that the story got into the public domain - but as I mentioned before, our people are under 24/7 scrutiny.
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I am curious as to why the 700 or so military personnel are staying in hotels(apparently 4* ones at that). Does this not pose a major security risk, or do these hotels have armed guards, 24 hours per day. Is there no service accommodation available nearby; if not rooms in the mess then somewhere to pitch a few 12x12 tents?
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No, because whilst it does not prove that drinking is good for reputation, it does prove that it does not destroy a reputation.
Unfortunately these types of event do, in some peoples eyes, tarnish a reputation. Like it or not, you are in the public eye...
Things that you used to be able to get away with, you no longer can. It's not always right, but its a fact of modern life.
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Damn, Mess accommodation - why didn't they think of that?
As for pitching tents on the airfield: genius. Right next to the long, wide road involved in nice and quiet 24 hour ops. Just the ticket for ensuring a jet's planted somewhere.
Wake up mate.
As for pitching tents on the airfield: genius. Right next to the long, wide road involved in nice and quiet 24 hour ops. Just the ticket for ensuring a jet's planted somewhere.
Wake up mate.
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It may surprise some of you but there are plenty of people (from all walks of life) that don't give a flying **** about the public eye...especially when the public eye is a euphemism for what some dritzekt journo or his editor has decided is morally right for the next ten minutes.
Some of us have decided to live by the law, to do right by one another, and to get on with our jobs as we think best. Not to spend our life sucking up to the mob rule.
I took an oath of allegiance to the Monarch and to my country. Not to some ars*wipe rag like the Daily Mail.
The guff on here is coming from the morally outraged. Tourist posts rule all.
Some of us have decided to live by the law, to do right by one another, and to get on with our jobs as we think best. Not to spend our life sucking up to the mob rule.
I took an oath of allegiance to the Monarch and to my country. Not to some ars*wipe rag like the Daily Mail.
The guff on here is coming from the morally outraged. Tourist posts rule all.
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"and to get on with our jobs as we think best."
Therein lies the crux of the problem
You're supposed to do your job as you're expected and ordered to do.
Not as you "think best"
Therein lies the crux of the problem
You're supposed to do your job as you're expected and ordered to do.
Not as you "think best"
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Damn, Mess accommodation - why didn't they think of that?
As for pitching tents on the airfield: genius. Right next to the long, wide road involved in nice and quiet 24 hour ops. Just the ticket for ensuring a jet's planted somewhere.
Wake up mate.
Yeah of course, how stupid of me. Just like the tonka guys during Desert Storm- unlike the rest of the aviation community who put up with tent city, they had to book themselves into the bloody Sheraton!! Nice way to go to war. Lets hope some irate Libyan, who doesn't like to have his country bombed by the west in the name of oil, doesn't do anything silly.
As for pitching tents on the airfield: genius. Right next to the long, wide road involved in nice and quiet 24 hour ops. Just the ticket for ensuring a jet's planted somewhere.
Wake up mate.
Yeah of course, how stupid of me. Just like the tonka guys during Desert Storm- unlike the rest of the aviation community who put up with tent city, they had to book themselves into the bloody Sheraton!! Nice way to go to war. Lets hope some irate Libyan, who doesn't like to have his country bombed by the west in the name of oil, doesn't do anything silly.