RAF Reaper Drones to be controlled from the UK
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"...but these won't really need flying jackets or aircrew socks!"
But you can bet your bottom dollar that they will have them, and wear badge adorned grow-bags rather than blues.
But you can bet your bottom dollar that they will have them, and wear badge adorned grow-bags rather than blues.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
But they will be clean grow bags without hydraulic oil or grubby knees. The flying gloves will not have real dirt on them.
Do they have to go SCRE and learn R2I techniques in case they get cornered in a bar in Vegas or Lincoln?
Do they have to go SCRE and learn R2I techniques in case they get cornered in a bar in Vegas or Lincoln?
Reaper crews still have to walkrounds and so get "hydraulic oil and grubby knees" - alright not in Lincoln, but in Theatre. There is a fire risk in a ground control station that is rammed full of high voltage electrics/electronics and man made fibres/plastics - also the ankle pockets in flying suits come in useful for documents whilst sitting "in the chair". Loose articles can be as big a problem as in an aeroplane - things can get jammed in a ground control station's controls just as easily as they can in aeroplane and also possibly cause a short that leads to a fire. Also, flying suits are far more comfortable to sit in for hours on end (OK, crews don't sit "in the chair" for the whole 14hr flight, but 2 spells of 4hrs a day is quite possible). Finally, getting in and out of "the chair" needs a garment that won't snag on the controls and snap them off - belt loops are bad for this.
So what RPAS crews need is a flame retardant, comfortable garment with zip pockets and pen holders - now we could get RPAS suits or is there something "off the peg" in the uniform inventory? Oh, yes, a flying suit!
Funny how the USAF came to the same conclusion too!
LJ
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
There is a fire risk in a ground control station that is rammed full of high voltage electrics/electronics and man made fibres/plastics - also the ankle pockets in flying suits come in useful for documents whilst sitting "in the chair". Loose articles can be as big a problem as in an aeroplane - things can get jammed in a ground control station's controls just as easily as they can in aeroplane and also possibly cause a short that leads to a fire. Also, flying suits are far more comfortable to sit in for hours on end (OK, crews don't sit "in the chair" for the whole 14hr flight, but 2 spells of 4hrs a day is quite possible). Finally, getting in and out of "the chair" needs a garment that won't snag on the controls and snap them off - belt loops are bad for this.
On the fire point, that presumably is why the E3 Mission Sim staff and software teams wear flying suits (not)
The only valid argument for flying suits is comfort and convenience. The latter as a convenient place to stow chinagraphs and notebooks.
So what RPAS crews need is a flame retardant, comfortable garment with zip pockets and pen holders - now we could get RPAS suits or is there something "off the peg" in the uniform inventory? Oh, yes, a flying suit!
Funny how the USAF came to the same conclusion too!
PN
Last time I looked the E3 mission sim wasn't crammed into an ISO container with 2 aircrew at one end, the electronics in the middle, a narrow passageway and a single door at the other!
The 3rd person in the control station is the Mission Coord (MiC) who is normally in CS95 and sits next to the door and has no controls to snag or worry about loose articles.
Ah, GK and the push back from a "golden hamster" - now that brings back memories!
LJ
On the fire point, that presumably is why the E3 Mission Sim staff and software teams wear flying suits (not)
The 3rd person in the control station is the Mission Coord (MiC) who is normally in CS95 and sits next to the door and has no controls to snag or worry about loose articles.
Ah, GK and the push back from a "golden hamster" - now that brings back memories!
LJ
Loose articles can be as big a problem as in an aeroplane...
Those drone operators remind me of the weird looking 'Brains'-type people you used to see in the Command Crew SAC-comic of the 1970s who sat in front of Minuteman consoles all dressed up in shiny flying suits and cravats (or 'ascots' in spam-speak). Scintillating prose would reveal that 1Lt Dooby had been awarded the 'Missileer of the Month' citation for running the checklist to overcome the air conditioning outage in some dank hole in South Dakota....
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Do they strap in? Do they experience seat rumble and strap tightening as in the early Vulcan flight sim?
PS, this is a semi-serious question. My co gave me a demo of the Vulcan sim at Waddo with its simulated movement. He sat casually in the driver's seat, in civvies, and not strapped in.
The power came up, brakes off and there is no other way to describe it but we careered down the runways with a slight zig-zag and a startled look on his face. Had he been properly dressed and strapped in things would have been different.
PS, this is a semi-serious question. My co gave me a demo of the Vulcan sim at Waddo with its simulated movement. He sat casually in the driver's seat, in civvies, and not strapped in.
The power came up, brakes off and there is no other way to describe it but we careered down the runways with a slight zig-zag and a startled look on his face. Had he been properly dressed and strapped in things would have been different.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 16th May 2011 at 11:09.
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Although the banter aimed at RPAS crews is humorous on forums such as this - and in the crew-room at Creech and elsewhere - and their own social network accounts; they do a tiring, relentless, high pressure, vital and deadly serious job. Their minds are focussed, their routine awful. They are very aware of the world 'below' them, and the very nature of the messaging from the JTAC on the radio brings a serious, sobering side to their long hours in the wee hours. The routine is fatiguing, the schedule on-going, but despite the apparent glitz of the Nevada lifestyle to an outside observer, each and every one of them look forward to the few days off with family and friends, whilst hiding the scars of their working life 50 miles north.
There is no glamour to the vision they endure, there is little public acknowledgement of their work, and their commitment to duty. Their knowledge of ROE, critical to the success of their weapon system, is precise, and the awareness of themselves as effective war-fighters remains within themselves.
Feel free to continue to knock the MQ-9 team, and their US bretheren on the MQ-1 and 9 (and other things) but I will raise a glass to each and every one of them, their MCs, Ops Staff, Int crews, comms techs, and other agencies that participate within their front line secure compound, and other yet largely unknown organisations that support, assist and co-operate with them. Their un-acknowledged sacrifice, and (typically 3+ years) of duty is a simply awesome task. - well done lads.....and ladies....
There is no glamour to the vision they endure, there is little public acknowledgement of their work, and their commitment to duty. Their knowledge of ROE, critical to the success of their weapon system, is precise, and the awareness of themselves as effective war-fighters remains within themselves.
Feel free to continue to knock the MQ-9 team, and their US bretheren on the MQ-1 and 9 (and other things) but I will raise a glass to each and every one of them, their MCs, Ops Staff, Int crews, comms techs, and other agencies that participate within their front line secure compound, and other yet largely unknown organisations that support, assist and co-operate with them. Their un-acknowledged sacrifice, and (typically 3+ years) of duty is a simply awesome task. - well done lads.....and ladies....
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Originally Posted by jamesdevice
The fact we're having to send King Airs into Afghanistan to do the job of the drones due to lack of satellite bandwidth should be enough to make you ask questions
It turns out that having "eyes on target" that are physically located at the same place the FMV ball is looking actually has quite a lot of value to the boots on the ground.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The future is RPAVs. The Sentinel will have no role post AFG.
What will the RPAV sqns do post-AFG assuming there is a severe outbreak of peace in the world?
What will the RPAV sqns do post-AFG assuming there is a severe outbreak of peace in the world?
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Although the banter aimed at RPAS crews is humorous on forums such as this - and in the crew-room at Creech and elsewhere - and their own social network accounts; they do a tiring, relentless, high pressure, vital and deadly serious job. Their minds are focussed, their routine awful. They are very aware of the world 'below' them, and the very nature of the messaging from the JTAC on the radio brings a serious, sobering side to their long hours in the wee hours. The routine is fatiguing, the schedule on-going, but despite the apparent glitz of the Nevada lifestyle to an outside observer, each and every one of them look forward to the few days off with family and friends, whilst hiding the scars of their working life 50 miles north.
There is no glamour to the vision they endure, there is little public acknowledgement of their work, and their commitment to duty. Their knowledge of ROE, critical to the success of their weapon system, is precise, and the awareness of themselves as effective war-fighters remains within themselves.
Feel free to continue to knock the MQ-9 team, and their US bretheren on the MQ-1 and 9 (and other things) but I will raise a glass to each and every one of them, their MCs, Ops Staff, Int crews, comms techs, and other agencies that participate within their front line secure compound, and other yet largely unknown organisations that support, assist and co-operate with them. Their un-acknowledged sacrifice, and (typically 3+ years) of duty is a simply awesome task. - well done lads.....and ladies....
There is no glamour to the vision they endure, there is little public acknowledgement of their work, and their commitment to duty. Their knowledge of ROE, critical to the success of their weapon system, is precise, and the awareness of themselves as effective war-fighters remains within themselves.
Feel free to continue to knock the MQ-9 team, and their US bretheren on the MQ-1 and 9 (and other things) but I will raise a glass to each and every one of them, their MCs, Ops Staff, Int crews, comms techs, and other agencies that participate within their front line secure compound, and other yet largely unknown organisations that support, assist and co-operate with them. Their un-acknowledged sacrifice, and (typically 3+ years) of duty is a simply awesome task. - well done lads.....and ladies....
But PN makes a point. UAVs do a good job in a static environment. When life gets a tad more stretched and flexible, having reach is a good thing.
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Spot on LJR. It's worthy of note that the RPA crews aren't the one's here bickering about wearing flying suits, being awarded medals etc etc, but are quietly going about their work that has more effect than most people will ever know.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I was not referring to flexibility or reach but what of flying training. As there is no real feel the whole process could presumably be done in a simulator. Would the 'drones' be simply stacked in stores* ready to be wheeled out in the future?
*I am thinking Swiss Air Force Hunters that used to be suspended from the roofs of their shelters rather than occupy floor space.
*I am thinking Swiss Air Force Hunters that used to be suspended from the roofs of their shelters rather than occupy floor space.
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Reaper
Firstly, I have nothing but admiration for the work of the guys/gals that operate the Predator/ Reaper at Creech - they do a difficult, demanding job and deserve the respect of everyone else in the armed services.
However, it's worth remembering that the MQ-1C Grey Eagle (a smaller version of the Reaper) is currently operated by the US Army. The MQ-1C Grey Eagle weighs 1.5 tons, carries 136 kg/300 pounds of sensors internally, and up to 227 kg/500 pounds of sensors or weapons externally. It has an endurance of up to 36 hours and a top speed of 270 kilometers an hour. Grey Eagle has a wingspan 18 meters/56 feet and is 9 meters/28 feet long. The Grey Eagle can land and take off automatically, and carry four Hellfire missiles (compared to two on the Predator), or a dozen smaller 70mm guided missiles. The Grey Eagle is operated by non-aircrew rated enlisted personnel.
Both the Grey Eagle and the US Air Force Global Hawk are flown by the operater making various mouse inputs on a computer screen. Therefore, since the US Air Force could have opted for a similar control system for the Reaper, I suspect the current 'pilot' system was selected more to appease aircrew and ensure there was less resistance to the introduction of RPAS than any other reason.
Proletarian
However, it's worth remembering that the MQ-1C Grey Eagle (a smaller version of the Reaper) is currently operated by the US Army. The MQ-1C Grey Eagle weighs 1.5 tons, carries 136 kg/300 pounds of sensors internally, and up to 227 kg/500 pounds of sensors or weapons externally. It has an endurance of up to 36 hours and a top speed of 270 kilometers an hour. Grey Eagle has a wingspan 18 meters/56 feet and is 9 meters/28 feet long. The Grey Eagle can land and take off automatically, and carry four Hellfire missiles (compared to two on the Predator), or a dozen smaller 70mm guided missiles. The Grey Eagle is operated by non-aircrew rated enlisted personnel.
Both the Grey Eagle and the US Air Force Global Hawk are flown by the operater making various mouse inputs on a computer screen. Therefore, since the US Air Force could have opted for a similar control system for the Reaper, I suspect the current 'pilot' system was selected more to appease aircrew and ensure there was less resistance to the introduction of RPAS than any other reason.
Proletarian