Operation Crossbow Sunday 15th May 2100
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Operation Crossbow Sunday 15th May 2100
Looks like an interesting documentary to be shown on the role of Photogs in the Second World bout of unpleasantness.
BBC News - Operation Crossbow: How 3D glasses defeated Hitler
BBC News - Operation Crossbow: How 3D glasses defeated Hitler
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Pity it's not o over here, I wouldn't mind watching that.
I grew up being told what it was like living with V1's flying across London and parents watching them to see if they had to run to the shelter or not.
I grew up being told what it was like living with V1's flying across London and parents watching them to see if they had to run to the shelter or not.
Originally Posted by 500N
I grew up being told what it was like living with V1's flying across London and parents watching them to see if they had to run to the shelter or not.
She had not long started work at the munitions factory at the end of the road they lived in (about 2 miles east of RAF Northolt) and was on her way to work with her friend who lived across the road, and were almost at the factory when the V1 came over and cut out. She said it looked as if it was coming straight for them, and she remembers just freezing and not moving, whereas her friend crouched down and turned away from it as it was going to hit. My aunt said she can still vividly remember the feeling of the blast wave blowing her hair back as she just stood there rooted to the spot. Ironically, she was completely unscathed, whereas her friend who was next to her crouching down facing the other way, took a nasty shrapnel hit in her buttock….which still put my aunt into fits of laughter all the years later when recounting the story
As a side story, if that V1 had impacted about 300 yards further south on the other side of the A40 it would have landed in the middle of the German/Italian POW camp that was there.
Detecting these weapons and attacking the sites was only one aspect of the counter-air effort. Through the DOUBLECROSS system run out of St Jame's Palace by John Masterman, German agents that had been 'turned' falsely reported back to their German handlers the fall of shot of both V1s and V2s. The Luftwaffe changed the MPI to 'Sarf London', believing that the V1s, aimed at Charing Cross, were falling long, in spite of tracking devices on some F103s correctly showing the POI. This resulted in more imapcts on the likes of Lewisham etc, rather than in central London. Additionally, there was a IO campaign through both the press and BBC radio to falsely indicate where devices had impacted - and this presented both parties a real dilemma. The 'medja' resented having to tell porkies, in spite of wartime censorship, as they knew that Londoners would quickly realise that radio and newspapers were no more than propaganda organs.
The Luftwaffe also tried air-launched V1s to get around this supposed inaccuracy; indeed one managed to get as far as Birmingham (indeed about 1500 - 15% - of all V1s directed at the UK). Monitoring Enigma traffic revealed that the Germans trusted 'their agents but assumed that tracking devices were working incorrectly; indeed were 'stolen' by radio deception. Read 'Most Secret' by R V Jones; 'Official History of M15' by Chris Andrew. Masterman published a summary of DOUBLECROSS in the early 1970s (before ENIGMA was declassified) and it is chilling reading of the disposal of a significant number of German agents in the UK when they ceased to useful to the UK war effort (ie executed in the moat of the Tower of London, amongst other places).
The Luftwaffe also tried air-launched V1s to get around this supposed inaccuracy; indeed one managed to get as far as Birmingham (indeed about 1500 - 15% - of all V1s directed at the UK). Monitoring Enigma traffic revealed that the Germans trusted 'their agents but assumed that tracking devices were working incorrectly; indeed were 'stolen' by radio deception. Read 'Most Secret' by R V Jones; 'Official History of M15' by Chris Andrew. Masterman published a summary of DOUBLECROSS in the early 1970s (before ENIGMA was declassified) and it is chilling reading of the disposal of a significant number of German agents in the UK when they ceased to useful to the UK war effort (ie executed in the moat of the Tower of London, amongst other places).
Last edited by Whenurhappy; 13th May 2011 at 12:03.
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Whenurhappy
My grand mother used to tell me exactly that story. It's interesting hearing it from someone else in more detail.
GeeRam
My mother used to live in Croydon and they used to watch the V1's and wait to see where and whether the engine started coughing and spluttering before deciding to run.
My mother and her brothers and sisters would be up the fruit trees in the garden picking the fruit (trying to be self sufficient in time of war) and talking about "into fits of laughter all the years later when recounting the story", when my mother and grand mother used to tell the story, it was hard to believe that my mother was the fastest from the top of the cherry tree to the air raid shelter.
They said the worst aspect of course was when one impacted close to them, finding out who had been killed.
Didn't the RAF also try flying alongside the V1's and using the wing tips to "tip" the V1 off balance so it crashed in the countryside ?
Talking about Shrapnel, my Grand mother and the other daughter (my mum's sister) were walking up the tree lined street back home when a Stuka came down low and shot them up. My grand mother said she lay flat on top of my aunt and the bullets passed either side of them. She said she could see the pilot's face he was that close. What the pilot didn't know what that an AA gun was located on the hill on the Golf Course and he flew right ad got shot down over it as someone called her later to say we got him.
Can't remember the street name but it will come to me and I'll add it then.
Edit - They were shot up on Upfield Avenue, off Addiscombe Road and the AA gun was located on Lloyd Park / Shirley Park Golf Club (according to Google).
What's interesting, once when visiting my Aunt, my mother could still tell me which houses in neighbouring streets were hit by bombs or V1's.
My grand mother used to tell me exactly that story. It's interesting hearing it from someone else in more detail.
GeeRam
My mother used to live in Croydon and they used to watch the V1's and wait to see where and whether the engine started coughing and spluttering before deciding to run.
My mother and her brothers and sisters would be up the fruit trees in the garden picking the fruit (trying to be self sufficient in time of war) and talking about "into fits of laughter all the years later when recounting the story", when my mother and grand mother used to tell the story, it was hard to believe that my mother was the fastest from the top of the cherry tree to the air raid shelter.
They said the worst aspect of course was when one impacted close to them, finding out who had been killed.
Didn't the RAF also try flying alongside the V1's and using the wing tips to "tip" the V1 off balance so it crashed in the countryside ?
Talking about Shrapnel, my Grand mother and the other daughter (my mum's sister) were walking up the tree lined street back home when a Stuka came down low and shot them up. My grand mother said she lay flat on top of my aunt and the bullets passed either side of them. She said she could see the pilot's face he was that close. What the pilot didn't know what that an AA gun was located on the hill on the Golf Course and he flew right ad got shot down over it as someone called her later to say we got him.
Can't remember the street name but it will come to me and I'll add it then.
Edit - They were shot up on Upfield Avenue, off Addiscombe Road and the AA gun was located on Lloyd Park / Shirley Park Golf Club (according to Google).
What's interesting, once when visiting my Aunt, my mother could still tell me which houses in neighbouring streets were hit by bombs or V1's.
Last edited by 500N; 13th May 2011 at 12:48.
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15th May 2100
Sisemen, must confess to having the same first reaction BUT just in case you're not tongue in cheek, it's 2100 hours
Full marks to the BBC for programming so far in advance - trouble is I ain't got a recorder that goes that far. 
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" Who is George Peppard? "
An actor. Was in Breakfast at Tiffany's then went downhill from there to the Colonel in the A Team
LOL
An actor. Was in Breakfast at Tiffany's then went downhill from there to the Colonel in the A Team
LOL
Poor joke!
He was in the film version of Operation Crossbow, and decided to leave Sophia Loren alive (as you would - well, back then anyway).Unfortunately, the old bat who owned the hotel shot her...
He was in the film version of Operation Crossbow, and decided to leave Sophia Loren alive (as you would - well, back then anyway).Unfortunately, the old bat who owned the hotel shot her...
Yes, the film 'Operation Crossbow', the first half of which was almost spot on as regards what actually happened 
and there was the second half that George was in, which wasn't 
.
and there was the second half that George was in, which wasn't .
Have not seen a mention of Constance Babington-Smith who I think was the first PI to identify a V1 launch site from recce photos. Used to see her around Cambridge in the early 70s.
Last edited by Wander00; 14th May 2011 at 10:26.
Constance Babington-Smith 'Evidence in Camera'.
Constance Babington-Smith's book 'Evidence in Camera' is a superb piece of work. I bought a dog-eared copy many. many years ago from the 'Withdrawn' desk at the Taupo Public Library in New Zealand. I had it for years. Unfortunately it vanished in one of my frequent moves (possibly from Leeming to, err, hmm, Hereford)*. I have a feeling that I might have loaned it to someone. The book was published long before Enigma was declassified, so the mapping of Occupied Europe wasn't entirely random.
If anyone has a copy of that book that they have no future use for, please PM me.
* Err, no, not that Hereford. The old one, now the current one, oh, I mean what was RAF Credenhill - but isn't that where 'Them' are, oh yes, but before then...just
If anyone has a copy of that book that they have no future use for, please PM me.
* Err, no, not that Hereford. The old one, now the current one, oh, I mean what was RAF Credenhill - but isn't that where 'Them' are, oh yes, but before then...just
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GeeRam
You sure it wasn't a V2? The last V1 sites to target the UK were over run in Oct 1944. After that they only hit mainland european targets. The V2 didn't stop until about Mar 45.
You sure it wasn't a V2? The last V1 sites to target the UK were over run in Oct 1944. After that they only hit mainland european targets. The V2 didn't stop until about Mar 45.
Last V-2s did land in London Area in late March 45, one of them around that time nearly wasted my mother and her family. V-1s were still hitting the UK after the French sites were overrun as they were air launched from He-111s
Last V-1 strike on the UK was on 29 March 1945, when an air launched weapon impacted in Hertfordshire, this being the last air attack on the UK by a hostile power.
Last V-2 Stirke on the UK was on 27 March 1945 when two missiles landed in London and resulted in the last British death from direct air attack by a hostile power.
Last V-2 Stirke on the UK was on 27 March 1945 when two missiles landed in London and resulted in the last British death from direct air attack by a hostile power.