Stealth UH60(?) used in OBL raid...
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And the Pakis didn't see them on their radar ..... LO chinooks????
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rh200
The link is a few posts above yours.
Re the "you ever heard of a silent chinook?"
They could have been following a few minutes behind.
The link is a few posts above yours.
Re the "you ever heard of a silent chinook?"
They could have been following a few minutes behind.
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Crab,
I get the whole 'compound is just made for recirculation' angle. However, the helicopter had just flown a significant distance and therefore burned petrol. Even with a running takeoff on departure the hover performance would not have been an issue even in recirc. Unless they had refuelled enroute of course. That just leaves vortex ring. Either way as you said, if they screwed up the perf calculation that's a bit dull.
I get the whole 'compound is just made for recirculation' angle. However, the helicopter had just flown a significant distance and therefore burned petrol. Even with a running takeoff on departure the hover performance would not have been an issue even in recirc. Unless they had refuelled enroute of course. That just leaves vortex ring. Either way as you said, if they screwed up the perf calculation that's a bit dull.
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The country is virtually at war - there's a real war in the country next door .....they are at daggers drawn with India ..."and the radar on that side of the country wasn't turned on..."
Oh come on - really does anyone believe this ....really!
Oh come on - really does anyone believe this ....really!
Sasless - no crystal ball, just the official sources quoted in FA18's post. If what they (including the director of the CIA) say is correct then someone didn't cover all the bases in their pre-flight planning - usually SF ops are planned meticulously, as far as possible, and predicting recirculation from such a LS is not rocket science.
High spirits - if the op was launched from Tarbela Dam they didn't have far to fly and even so, 12 heavily armed SEALs is still a hefty payload.
I have fallen out of the sky flying into a similar sized and equally high walled (albeit wriggly tin) LS and landed much harder than intended - not hot, high or particularly heavy - just caught out by the massive power requirement to hover when the whole disc is experiencing recirculation.
High spirits - if the op was launched from Tarbela Dam they didn't have far to fly and even so, 12 heavily armed SEALs is still a hefty payload.
I have fallen out of the sky flying into a similar sized and equally high walled (albeit wriggly tin) LS and landed much harder than intended - not hot, high or particularly heavy - just caught out by the massive power requirement to hover when the whole disc is experiencing recirculation.
There are good landings and great landings. Good ones you survive. Great ones you can use the aircraft again.
Fact: we don't know if there was mechanical failure or not.
Fact: Mission Success
Fact: They all survived
All of the above = Good Landing
Fact: it is a rumour network, so speculation is OK I guess.
I heard that they externally loaded in an old blackhawk with a "figure this one out China, Tail Boom", dropped it on the wall, then set in on fire to give us something to natter about.
Fact: we don't know if there was mechanical failure or not.
Fact: Mission Success
Fact: They all survived
All of the above = Good Landing
Fact: it is a rumour network, so speculation is OK I guess.
I heard that they externally loaded in an old blackhawk with a "figure this one out China, Tail Boom", dropped it on the wall, then set in on fire to give us something to natter about.
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Oi Doors off
"I heard that they externally loaded in an old blackhawk with a "figure this one out China, Tail Boom", dropped it on the wall, then set in on fire to give us something to natter about."
Get your own conspiracy theory, or pay me royalties!
"I heard that they externally loaded in an old blackhawk with a "figure this one out China, Tail Boom", dropped it on the wall, then set in on fire to give us something to natter about."
Get your own conspiracy theory, or pay me royalties!
Tourist,
sorry old chap. Didn't realise you had raised something along those lines, or maybe I am Chinese and just reversed engineered your theory
I guess mine won't work as well, but it still looks possible.
A big part of me hopes that it is a wind up, it would be great if it is. Who said the Yanks don't have a sense of humour
Maybe it was the British exchange pilots idea
Doors Off
sorry old chap. Didn't realise you had raised something along those lines, or maybe I am Chinese and just reversed engineered your theory
I guess mine won't work as well, but it still looks possible.A big part of me hopes that it is a wind up, it would be great if it is. Who said the Yanks don't have a sense of humour
Maybe it was the British exchange pilots ideaDoors Off
President Obama Interview on CBS 60 Minutes
Link to CBS 60 Minutes interview with President Obama on planning & execution of UBL raid (full episode on line) shown in the USA last night. Worth a look - some interesting details.
Watch 60 Minutes on CBS.com. Full Episodes, Clips and Behind the Scenes footage.
Watch 60 Minutes on CBS.com. Full Episodes, Clips and Behind the Scenes footage.
I am not quite as indifferent as most seem to be in this discussion, regarding what may have been a mission planning issue, or a technique gaff during the mission. 
Compromise of classified tech isn't a good thing. Crashing it to be exploited isn't good at all.
While I am glad Osama got his taste of high speed lead, and the Pakistanis are embarassed (which I see as a good thing), I am not pleased that the "stealth" features are somewhat out in the open.
"We had our radars turned off."
Why not? It's not as if Afghanistan has any strike aircraft heading south anytime soon, and it could have been assumed that the Yanks were not a hostile air threat.
Hmm, they may revisit that assumption again, as they used to when they scrambled fighters against tankers over Afghanistan a few years back ...
Whoops ...
Compromise of classified tech isn't a good thing. Crashing it to be exploited isn't good at all.
While I am glad Osama got his taste of high speed lead, and the Pakistanis are embarassed (which I see as a good thing), I am not pleased that the "stealth" features are somewhat out in the open. "We had our radars turned off."
Why not? It's not as if Afghanistan has any strike aircraft heading south anytime soon, and it could have been assumed that the Yanks were not a hostile air threat.
Hmm, they may revisit that assumption again, as they used to when they scrambled fighters against tankers over Afghanistan a few years back ...
Whoops ...
Originally Posted by Lonewolf 50
Compromise of classified tech isn't a good thing. Crashing it to be exploited isn't good at all. 
While I am glad Osama got his taste of high speed lead, and the Pakistanis are embarassed (which I see as a good thing), I am not pleased that the "stealth" features are somewhat out in the open.
While I am glad Osama got his taste of high speed lead, and the Pakistanis are embarassed (which I see as a good thing), I am not pleased that the "stealth" features are somewhat out in the open.Join Date: May 2011
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secret USA technology used in raid
Apparently the yanks have new intelligent spy-drones known as Crows & Ravens
Could Crows Have Helped Bring Down Bin Laden? · OPB News
Could Crows Have Helped Bring Down Bin Laden? · OPB News
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Would appear German TV in it's haste to find the badge for Seal Team 6 found one and then ran it with the news.....
German TV: 'Star Trek' terrorists killed bin Laden | Technically Incorrect - CNET News
So it is official
'Star Trek' terrorists killed bin Laden, the badge they found and used was one for the Marquis, the bad guys on the Star Trek TV series Voyager.
ROFL
German TV: 'Star Trek' terrorists killed bin Laden | Technically Incorrect - CNET News
So it is official
'Star Trek' terrorists killed bin Laden, the badge they found and used was one for the Marquis, the bad guys on the Star Trek TV series Voyager.
Unfortunately, in its haste to offer a SEAL logo, someone at the station actually mustered the logo of the "Star Trek" Maquis Special Operations Seals Team VI--a bunch of nasty little 24th century terrorists.
Fair point, hoodie.
That Seal Team Six is being so glibly discussed in the media is yet another case of OPSEC violations in the name of glory mongering, this time by someone in the executive branch/DoD. (I doubt the SEAL Team Six folks are glory mongers, it's the mukky muks up high in DoD who too often play that card ...)
Most of the SEALS I ever met or worked with were low key, completely not Hollywood types, and not attention grabbers. Same with other SOF folks I had the chance to work with.
As the joke used to go, Delta Force doesn't exist ... but if you mention them, expect a visit in the late night by some quiet and deadly folk wearing NVG's.
Well, I'm not keen for our "cloak and dagger" folks to be outed. Anyone read "Feather Men" recently?
That Seal Team Six is being so glibly discussed in the media is yet another case of OPSEC violations in the name of glory mongering, this time by someone in the executive branch/DoD. (I doubt the SEAL Team Six folks are glory mongers, it's the mukky muks up high in DoD who too often play that card ...)
Most of the SEALS I ever met or worked with were low key, completely not Hollywood types, and not attention grabbers. Same with other SOF folks I had the chance to work with.
As the joke used to go, Delta Force doesn't exist ... but if you mention them, expect a visit in the late night by some quiet and deadly folk wearing NVG's.
Well, I'm not keen for our "cloak and dagger" folks to be outed. Anyone read "Feather Men" recently?
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""We had our radars turned off."
Why not? It's not as if Afghanistan has any strike aircraft heading south anytime soon, and it could have been assumed that the Yanks were not a hostile air threat."
No, but what about India ?
Anything stopping them flying around and coming in from the Afghan side ?
.
Why not? It's not as if Afghanistan has any strike aircraft heading south anytime soon, and it could have been assumed that the Yanks were not a hostile air threat."
No, but what about India ?
Anything stopping them flying around and coming in from the Afghan side ?
.
Besides the fact that the USAF (and ISAF/NATO) still has radar coverage over Afghan airspace? US might advise the Indians "no funny stuff, if you please" and would be in a position to stop them if it got really nasty.
I don't see your scenario as realistic, 500N.
I don't see your scenario as realistic, 500N.
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I understand that. What is ISAF /NATO were not there ?
Afghan would still not be a threat but the door might be open
to a surprise back door attack.
Either way, I suppose I just always look for the least obvious route.
Afghan would still not be a threat but the door might be open
to a surprise back door attack.
Either way, I suppose I just always look for the least obvious route.
I see what you're saying, 500N. When the outsiders eventually wander off, what sort of EW and air surveillance radar capability will Afghanistan maintain?
Good question.
Good question.
DISCOVERY CHANNEL SPECIAL
Killing Bin Laden
One-Hour Special Premieres Sunday, May 15 at 10PM ET/PT
Due to air in the UK on Wednesday.
TJ
Killing Bin Laden
One-Hour Special Premieres Sunday, May 15 at 10PM ET/PT
Due to air in the UK on Wednesday.
TJ
The remains of the destroyed helicopter have been recovered to US soil. The US 'required' Pakistan to return the wreckage - seems a lot of trouble to go to for just a burnt out UH60, unless it was heavily modified!
BBC News - Pakistan returns helicopter used in Bin Laden operation
BBC News - Pakistan returns helicopter used in Bin Laden operation