Did the RAF trial the "A-10 Gattling Gun" ?
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Did the RAF trial the "A-10 Gattling Gun" ?
Was discussing all things RAF last night and the conversation came around to this peculiar topic. One of the blokes was convinced the RAF had strapped a couple of gats onto a jet and went to a range and unloaded. He recalls the pilot as saying "the plane felt as though it had stopped in mid-air" when he opened up.
Can anybody confirm this or is this just one too many pints of Guinness?
Can anybody confirm this or is this just one too many pints of Guinness?
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but then again wasn't it also in the Phantom?....
A gun that wizzes round and disgourges 6,000 rounds a minute...... bearing in mind UK military plc made the SLR none automatic because we would supposedly waste to many rounds...
now where is my box of Swan Vestas 
Damn VX u beat me to it
A gun that wizzes round and disgourges 6,000 rounds a minute...... bearing in mind UK military plc made the SLR none automatic because we would supposedly waste to many rounds...
now where is my box of Swan Vestas Damn VX u beat me to it
Yes, we had the SUU-23A pod fitted on occasions to the F-4. But it only fired 20mm shells, rather than the 30mm of the Hunter or A-10.
I was once told (by a QWI, so it must have been true...clack, clack, ride up, early pickle, mutter, mutter...out of range!) that in a half second burst the 4 Adens of the Hunter would put more explosive on the target than the SUU-23A of the F-4... Except that you'd then have to reach round with your right arm to reset all the CBs by feel, doing a passable impression of James Herriott attempting to correct a breech birth in a cow.
Tourist is quite correct; the A-10 was indeed built around the mighty GAU-8 30mm Gatling-type cannon.
I was once told (by a QWI, so it must have been true...clack, clack, ride up, early pickle, mutter, mutter...out of range!) that in a half second burst the 4 Adens of the Hunter would put more explosive on the target than the SUU-23A of the F-4... Except that you'd then have to reach round with your right arm to reset all the CBs by feel, doing a passable impression of James Herriott attempting to correct a breech birth in a cow.
Tourist is quite correct; the A-10 was indeed built around the mighty GAU-8 30mm Gatling-type cannon.
Canberra NF
There was a plan for a Canberra intruder: AI radar, gun pack, rockets etc. But the dates didn't match up. By the time they could have got it into service it would have been too late. There was also a proposal for an interceptor: AI.18, Red Dean, gun pack - plus an optional rocket pack (as per Lightning) for those hard to reach high-altitude targets. Same problem.
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I dont think we ever seriously looked at the A10 to my knowledge. I remember the A10 being seen as a bit of a white elephant because of survivability at slower speeds during the Cold War. Just shows how times change. Mind you, we all changed our views when one came back after a TLP mission with half a fin and a goose embedded in what was left.
With the limited number of hits needed for a kill with 20mm HEI the Suu23 actually had a certain amount of movement on the barrel to improve dispersion. That way you had a better Pk for a snapshot, its says 'ere. High scores with the F4 podded fit on the banner were quite rare. I never saw 3 guns fitted. Air to air we needed fuel more than bullets.
The F3 gun was fixed so the scores were better but you needed the "hotline" sight.
With the limited number of hits needed for a kill with 20mm HEI the Suu23 actually had a certain amount of movement on the barrel to improve dispersion. That way you had a better Pk for a snapshot, its says 'ere. High scores with the F4 podded fit on the banner were quite rare. I never saw 3 guns fitted. Air to air we needed fuel more than bullets.
The F3 gun was fixed so the scores were better but you needed the "hotline" sight.
Last edited by Geehovah; 28th Apr 2011 at 19:25.
Even I once managed 52% against the flag in Akrotiri in my brief time on the F-4....
But that was by using a hybrid technique unapproved by the QWIs.....
Still, it worked.
But that was by using a hybrid technique unapproved by the QWIs.....
Still, it worked.
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The Yanks developed a podded version of the A-10 gun (GPU-5/A) for use on the F-16 etc - IIRC it was used by the New York ANG during GW1, but dropped pretty quickly as it was hard to fire accurately due to vibration.
Don't think we ever tried it.
Don't think we ever tried it.
IIRC the triple gun fit was used in SEA for night interdiction against traffic on the Ho Chi Minh trail and known, informally, as "Pedro the gunfighter". Not as glamourous as A-A but important in context.
The majority of the USAF held the same prejudice about the A10's survivability and sent much of the 1980s trying to replace it with F16s - GW1 came along at a fortuitous time. The USAF only held the A-X competition due to pressure from the US Army. As a RW mate there's no plank I'd rather fly (and the sums wouldn't be too hard....).
The majority of the USAF held the same prejudice about the A10's survivability and sent much of the 1980s trying to replace it with F16s - GW1 came along at a fortuitous time. The USAF only held the A-X competition due to pressure from the US Army. As a RW mate there's no plank I'd rather fly (and the sums wouldn't be too hard....).
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Wander00
There was a Canberra as you describe, but it was a USAF B57 Canberra.
It had a gun pack and low light TV, but also had better crew visibility than RAF Canberra crews had.
There was a Canberra as you describe, but it was a USAF B57 Canberra.
It had a gun pack and low light TV, but also had better crew visibility than RAF Canberra crews had.
Even I once managed 52% against the flag in Akrotiri in my brief time on the F-4....
Bleedin' good fun for strafe though
Agree about the strafe! We had a fun time after the South Atlantic war learning strafe again on the F-4 and on one memorable trip I surprised myself with quite a good score at Cowden or Donna Nook or wherever it was!
Re. the Canberra, the Boulton-Paul gunpack which could be fitted to the B(I)8 held 4 x Hispano 20mm cannon. Again, not in the same league as the 4 x Aden 30 mm in the Hunter, but from what I've heard it was quite fun firing the thing.
Re. the Canberra, the Boulton-Paul gunpack which could be fitted to the B(I)8 held 4 x Hispano 20mm cannon. Again, not in the same league as the 4 x Aden 30 mm in the Hunter, but from what I've heard it was quite fun firing the thing.
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GAU-12
On the subject of Gatling guns, I never understood why we didn't get the 25mm GAU-12U "Equalizer" (bl**dy stupid name) fitted to the Harriers at the same time as the USMC instead of the ADEN 25.
Does anyone know why? Can the story now be told?
S41
Does anyone know why? Can the story now be told?
S41
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Squirrel 41,
I photographed the development and test firing of the 25mm Aden planned for the Harrier GR5 ( instead of the AV-8B's GAU-12 ).
This was at a time, remember, when BAe had become cosy with Royal Ordnance; I would think lucrative contracts were the main 'target' !
The 25mm was supposed to give higher muzzle velocity and I think rate of fire than the proven 30mm, and a different firing system - the 30mm of course was actually a development of a WWII German design.
One thing the 25mm did feature which struck me as a good idea was a burst limiter whereby the pilot could select the number of rounds per squeeze of the trigger, and a rounds remaining count in the HUD, though I have a feeling there was some argument over the method that data was gathered and its' accuracy.
Whatever the smart-arse theory, I can aver that the most danger when in front of a 25mm was of being hit by it's own innards !
Repeated tests never got over that.
When I once mentioned in public that the thing was a lemon and why didn't we use the GAU-12, a designer from Royal Ordnance got very upset and quoted me a lot of figures on the lines of 'we were better for rate of fire, and this, and this'...well as I understand it,'better' includes actually working, which the 25mm did not.
I always thought gatling guns came about to provide barrel cooling, and from what I have seen, the theory stands !
Adopting the GAU-12 would have been admitting a mistake, and just as with binning harriers & Ark Royal then immediately committing to yet another war, mistakes can never be admitted.
I am told by armourers that the GAU-12 is not perfect, but weight issues aside I suspect it's more effective at taking out bad chaps than strakes are, and a handy option for knobbling vehicles like jeeps compared to a Maverick or Brimstone ...
I photographed the development and test firing of the 25mm Aden planned for the Harrier GR5 ( instead of the AV-8B's GAU-12 ).
This was at a time, remember, when BAe had become cosy with Royal Ordnance; I would think lucrative contracts were the main 'target' !
The 25mm was supposed to give higher muzzle velocity and I think rate of fire than the proven 30mm, and a different firing system - the 30mm of course was actually a development of a WWII German design.
One thing the 25mm did feature which struck me as a good idea was a burst limiter whereby the pilot could select the number of rounds per squeeze of the trigger, and a rounds remaining count in the HUD, though I have a feeling there was some argument over the method that data was gathered and its' accuracy.
Whatever the smart-arse theory, I can aver that the most danger when in front of a 25mm was of being hit by it's own innards !
Repeated tests never got over that.
When I once mentioned in public that the thing was a lemon and why didn't we use the GAU-12, a designer from Royal Ordnance got very upset and quoted me a lot of figures on the lines of 'we were better for rate of fire, and this, and this'...well as I understand it,'better' includes actually working, which the 25mm did not.
I always thought gatling guns came about to provide barrel cooling, and from what I have seen, the theory stands !
Adopting the GAU-12 would have been admitting a mistake, and just as with binning harriers & Ark Royal then immediately committing to yet another war, mistakes can never be admitted.
I am told by armourers that the GAU-12 is not perfect, but weight issues aside I suspect it's more effective at taking out bad chaps than strakes are, and a handy option for knobbling vehicles like jeeps compared to a Maverick or Brimstone ...