Decompression....
I am out here 3-4 times a year for 6-8 weeks. With the catchall of RSOI ( which sadly has little relevance to the job I do) and now the decompression, they add at least another week to a relatively short det. All in all, it means another 4 weeks away a year, carrying out catchall, arse covering policies when in my very humble opinion, I don't need to do.
Before I get shouted at; I do at least 7 days pre det training, which covers all the good stuff of weapons/mines/100m shoot etc. But on top, we now have to do the RSOI which is aimed at a more 'fresh' recruit. We were told how to open bottles of water, how to set up PT in Fobs, how to wipe our backsides - the list goes on!! All of which had no relevance to my job, or life in Kandahar/Kabul on a main base.
When I return from det, I have a debrief with my Flt Cdr, there is Trim, and we have immense support in Kandahar should we witness anything, feel pressure, have concerns.
Before I get shouted at; I do at least 7 days pre det training, which covers all the good stuff of weapons/mines/100m shoot etc. But on top, we now have to do the RSOI which is aimed at a more 'fresh' recruit. We were told how to open bottles of water, how to set up PT in Fobs, how to wipe our backsides - the list goes on!! All of which had no relevance to my job, or life in Kandahar/Kabul on a main base.
When I return from det, I have a debrief with my Flt Cdr, there is Trim, and we have immense support in Kandahar should we witness anything, feel pressure, have concerns.
As a Pilot who also has a similar det rotation cycle to you, it seems that having to do RSOI/Decompression etc only serves to increase our time away, and put more strain on families, and our Squadron's (planning etc). IMHO, whilst doing RSOI/Decompression, we are not doing anything "productive". If you add up all this time wasted doing RSOI/Decompression, it runs into a good few weeks per person per year. Thats a lot of "wasted" time.
I'm sure RSOI and decompression are useful to some. But not to somebody doing my particular job. RSOI is irrelevant to me. As for decompression, Life at KAF is relatively pleasant, and feel the resources would be best used elsewhere.
Just a thought.... I can do a 2 month det and have to do decompression. A young (brave!) squaddie can do 2 months, getting shot at, having a few mates blown up, generally being very stressed, then goes on R&R after 2 months and doesn't have to do Decompression..........
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I agree that unnessecary time away from home is a bad thing but do we have the capacity to decide on individual cases (of units or people) as to whether or not decomp is needed? Do we have the knowledge to see what is going on in someones head who may not know themselves or may be doing a good job of hiding something? If we do can the airbridge manage so much flexibility, is it managing now?
I think on balance it's needed in enough cases to make it worthwhile and prob the best system we'll get.
Regarding RSOI, if you go on a 6/9/12 month tour you only do it once, so if you're cycling through theatre on regular shorter dets you should be able to organise something quite easily. I think already if you've done it inside 6 months you don't need it again.
Jocky, I think you'd do well to think a little before posting, Off Hot may have only just posted but could have been reading the forum for a long time, maybe he/she just got a new username? With few exceptions no-ones views are worth more than anyone elses!
I think on balance it's needed in enough cases to make it worthwhile and prob the best system we'll get.
Regarding RSOI, if you go on a 6/9/12 month tour you only do it once, so if you're cycling through theatre on regular shorter dets you should be able to organise something quite easily. I think already if you've done it inside 6 months you don't need it again.
Jocky, I think you'd do well to think a little before posting, Off Hot may have only just posted but could have been reading the forum for a long time, maybe he/she just got a new username? With few exceptions no-ones views are worth more than anyone elses!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
From a chat with a colonel a couple of years ago I would guess Army. The submarine service has long done this and the Army copied them. Having learnt the lesson they are probably keen to avoid moral problems with light blue 'skivving' off home early.
Decompression
As I understand it, decompression is considered an absolute necessity for
all before returning back to UK.
Why isn't it compulsory before returning on the mid tour break? Surely the
risks are just the same.
Just a thought.
all before returning back to UK.
Why isn't it compulsory before returning on the mid tour break? Surely the
risks are just the same.
Just a thought.
Last edited by AARON O'DICKYDIDO; 26th Apr 2011 at 09:06. Reason: Correction of statement
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I like the way someone who joined the Army wants a more individualistic approach to his treatment.
Seriously - I doubt there are the resources to deal with this in any other way. We certainly don't have the med staff across the Forces to give a more individual service. KISS as the vast majority are doing 6 monthers and better to put people through it than risk non-qualified people making decisions on individuals that might not be right. Rather inconvenience a few and catch all than let them go by and miss potential problems.
Seriously - I doubt there are the resources to deal with this in any other way. We certainly don't have the med staff across the Forces to give a more individual service. KISS as the vast majority are doing 6 monthers and better to put people through it than risk non-qualified people making decisions on individuals that might not be right. Rather inconvenience a few and catch all than let them go by and miss potential problems.
In general terms I agree with you, Mr C, but there really does need to be some sort of dispensation from all this for guys that are out there 2 or 3 times a year, every year - a whole month per year on "non-core" business is a significant waste of money.
The chances of KAF-based personnel getting out of RSOI are now zero, as a 3-day RSOI is conducted at Bastion as part of the deployment process. Since the only useful bit of RSOI at KAF used to be the famil with the IDF alarms and the common rocket attack directions, getting a Bastion-specific RSOI appears a complete waste of time, as well as being 3 times longer than it was only a few weeks ago. Was the 'old' KAF RSOI really that unsafe?
The Bastion RSOI includes a full-kit 2.5 mile march to the range for weapon zeroing. Those who deploy without a personal weapon, such as FJ aircrew, have to sit and watch everyone else shoot before marching back again. The time could be much better spent getting ROE updates, reviewing theatre flying orders, etc... but no, sit in the sand for 6 hours doing bugger-all. Unbelievable.
The chances of KAF-based personnel getting out of RSOI are now zero, as a 3-day RSOI is conducted at Bastion as part of the deployment process. Since the only useful bit of RSOI at KAF used to be the famil with the IDF alarms and the common rocket attack directions, getting a Bastion-specific RSOI appears a complete waste of time, as well as being 3 times longer than it was only a few weeks ago. Was the 'old' KAF RSOI really that unsafe?
The Bastion RSOI includes a full-kit 2.5 mile march to the range for weapon zeroing. Those who deploy without a personal weapon, such as FJ aircrew, have to sit and watch everyone else shoot before marching back again. The time could be much better spent getting ROE updates, reviewing theatre flying orders, etc... but no, sit in the sand for 6 hours doing bugger-all. Unbelievable.
Thread Starter
I am convinced that a Sqn boss ( they do operate out here, so have a good feel for it, along with Execs) is ably placed to say that his Sqn members do not need to do decom.
I can only talk for the way we operate out here, and given the frequency of dets ( 4 a year) this COULD be looked at. Adding at least a week ( RSOI and decom) every time you are in theatre is simply crazy.
In simple terms, it means an extra 4 weeks a year is spent carrying out 'coverall' policy. Add at least a weeks annual deployment training, various SERE lectures, weapon zeroing, live shoots and you are easily up at 6 weeks. Whilst 6 weeks may not sound alot, multiply that by numbers of personnel on the Sqn and suddenly, you have an extremely inefficient system happening.
The knock on effects are people back home having to work harder and cover these extended periods away. You then have to consider family life and in general, just a quality of life. I know i'm in the forces, but we are now looking at 6-7 months away a year AT LEAST.
This comes at a time of cuts, pay freezes, worries over pensions etc etc. As said, RSOI and decom have merits, but I truly believe this could be looked at in more detail and it is a question I am asking of CAM already.
I can only talk for the way we operate out here, and given the frequency of dets ( 4 a year) this COULD be looked at. Adding at least a week ( RSOI and decom) every time you are in theatre is simply crazy.
In simple terms, it means an extra 4 weeks a year is spent carrying out 'coverall' policy. Add at least a weeks annual deployment training, various SERE lectures, weapon zeroing, live shoots and you are easily up at 6 weeks. Whilst 6 weeks may not sound alot, multiply that by numbers of personnel on the Sqn and suddenly, you have an extremely inefficient system happening.
The knock on effects are people back home having to work harder and cover these extended periods away. You then have to consider family life and in general, just a quality of life. I know i'm in the forces, but we are now looking at 6-7 months away a year AT LEAST.
This comes at a time of cuts, pay freezes, worries over pensions etc etc. As said, RSOI and decom have merits, but I truly believe this could be looked at in more detail and it is a question I am asking of CAM already.
Of course, back in the days of a Royal Air Force, rather than a North-West Frontier Support Force, 'decompression' merely meant yet another Ruddles and vindaloo session in Stamford, followed by 25-45K in 3 sec the following day at AMTC North Luffenham...
Remind me once again, WTF are the UK's armed forces actually there for in Afghanistan? Brave deeds aside, what exactly is the 'end game'?
Remind me once again, WTF are the UK's armed forces actually there for in Afghanistan? Brave deeds aside, what exactly is the 'end game'?
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I think the 2 issues of RSOI and Decomp are distinct. Decomp is one thing. Teaching SO3's how to wipe their arse and open bottles of water, instead of spending quality time with family, is a bit of a joke and shows some pretty poor decision making.
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The cynic in me thinks that this is smoke & mirrors for airlink accountability rather then sincere concern for all and sundry. Which could be why it is not applicable to R&R journeys; for IIRC, they have a higher priority then tourex travel. If this is so, I would prefer it for the system to be up front and admit that the airlink is threaders.
Teaching SO3's how to wipe their arse and open bottles of water...
Would the alternative be that they might need 'open at other end' stickers on water bottles? And as for the other 'training objective'....
Last edited by BEagle; 26th Apr 2011 at 15:37.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
DR, that did occur to me. A device to match troops out to airlift home.
What happens if 300 troops fly into AKR but the next jet only has capacity for 299?
What happens if 300 troops fly into AKR but the next jet only has capacity for 299?
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One might argue that the issues of decompression are different for a short R&R visit versus a longer-term return to "normal" domestic life - I am sure that there are stats somewhere that will have been considered. One thing for sure though: if decompression were deemed necessary before R&R visits then I think that we can all guess the only possible outcome 
.
.
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You lot really look for a Mover's conspiracy where ever you can don't you?
Decompression makes sense for the vast majority of the poor b'stards who are out there, forward, doing the business. I have sympathy with those who are on regular short tours and don't perceive a need for their own decompression and they may well be right. This board is populated by the minority of the 9500 blokes out there and the system will always cover the majority. Can you imagine the press coverage if some rotary mate who was exempt decompression lost the plot and did something bad? As I said, I have sympathy for those on the regular returns but using the current system means that 'the costs fall where they lie' ie the sqns bear the brunt of the wasted man days. Anything else would incur a cost somewhere else and that isn't going to happen.
Everyone I have spoken to who did a hard tour saw the value in decompression.
Decompression makes sense for the vast majority of the poor b'stards who are out there, forward, doing the business. I have sympathy with those who are on regular short tours and don't perceive a need for their own decompression and they may well be right. This board is populated by the minority of the 9500 blokes out there and the system will always cover the majority. Can you imagine the press coverage if some rotary mate who was exempt decompression lost the plot and did something bad? As I said, I have sympathy for those on the regular returns but using the current system means that 'the costs fall where they lie' ie the sqns bear the brunt of the wasted man days. Anything else would incur a cost somewhere else and that isn't going to happen.
Everyone I have spoken to who did a hard tour saw the value in decompression.
Thread Starter
Mr C! I really don't see anything that is looking for a Mover's conspiracy. The movers working out in Kaf, Bastion and Kabul are a good lot, working hard, with limited numbers!!
I really can't comment for other fleets or trades, but i KNOW that the job I ( we) do has yet to cause any adverse reaction, and that's a good 8-9 years worth of Dets.
I can tell you that stress does comes from getting into and out of theatre for all the reasons we are well aware of. Now we have the addition of decom ( and RSOI) which for us is completely unnecessary. As said, I will be following this up to see if Centre of Aviation Medicine has had an input or even consulted.
Once again, I can only speak for my fleet and the experiences that we have had. And thus, I do believe that our Sqn bosses are more than capable of making an educated and balanced decision on whether we need to do this or not, concurrent with aviation medical advice. We always have a Flt Cdr auth in theatre, Execs and the bosses are out here regularly and these guys are able to make an informed decision.
The greater impact for me is yet another few days away from my children, friends and family.
I really can't comment for other fleets or trades, but i KNOW that the job I ( we) do has yet to cause any adverse reaction, and that's a good 8-9 years worth of Dets.
I can tell you that stress does comes from getting into and out of theatre for all the reasons we are well aware of. Now we have the addition of decom ( and RSOI) which for us is completely unnecessary. As said, I will be following this up to see if Centre of Aviation Medicine has had an input or even consulted.
Once again, I can only speak for my fleet and the experiences that we have had. And thus, I do believe that our Sqn bosses are more than capable of making an educated and balanced decision on whether we need to do this or not, concurrent with aviation medical advice. We always have a Flt Cdr auth in theatre, Execs and the bosses are out here regularly and these guys are able to make an informed decision.
The greater impact for me is yet another few days away from my children, friends and family.
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Although the RSOI package is far from ideal for some with a 'one size fits all' policy, don't forget some of the reason for it is so that those that 'don't' get a feeling and empathy for the experience likely to be faced of those that 'do' (that is not meant in any way derogatory to either group).
Anyway, back to decompression......
Anyway, back to decompression......
Last edited by TheWizard; 27th Apr 2011 at 10:05. Reason: Clarity for some people
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I hadn't considered this. With all the stressful things I did during my service I'd best find a shrink............................................
I have to say, being serious, this should be for operational commanders to decide if his or her staff need decompresison on the way home. Or am I missing something?
I have to say, being serious, this should be for operational commanders to decide if his or her staff need decompresison on the way home. Or am I missing something?
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The few hours between getting off a C17 and getting onto a B757 caused me more stress than an entire Op Tour! I learnt all about sh*t locations previously never heard of before, and to add insult to injury, it p*ssed down.
Decomp:
Never in the field of human conflict have so many been so depressed for the benefit of so few.
Now we are talking!!!!!
Note: Total respect to the civvy hosties on the 757 who let everbody sleep wherever they wanted to whilst they tip toed around them. Probably totally illegal but very pragmatic and well appreciated.
Decomp:
Never in the field of human conflict have so many been so depressed for the benefit of so few.
Now we are talking!!!!!
Note: Total respect to the civvy hosties on the 757 who let everbody sleep wherever they wanted to whilst they tip toed around them. Probably totally illegal but very pragmatic and well appreciated.