Decompression....
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I'm sad enough to have looked this up now.
I commend anyone who questions their need to decompress to look up LFSO 3209 on the intranet. In particular, they should refer to Annex A and points 7 to 9. It provides the references your CoC would need to present the case up the chain. So - there is an established route to staff it up if you want to. I hope that helps someone.
I commend anyone who questions their need to decompress to look up LFSO 3209 on the intranet. In particular, they should refer to Annex A and points 7 to 9. It provides the references your CoC would need to present the case up the chain. So - there is an established route to staff it up if you want to. I hope that helps someone.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Here is the link to the leaflet.
Leaflet 32 - Stress at work
The clues are in the title.
BFG - British Forces Germany
LFSO - Land Forces Standing Orders
Time for the blues to stand aside perhaps?
When I was in a green dominated civil service organisation, whenever anyone directed me to LFSO I would refer them to the fact that we were not in LAND and if and orders were relevant they were AIR and if they wished me to abide by the content of a LAND document then they should re-issue it with their own imprimatur.
Leaflet 32 - Stress at work
The clues are in the title.
BFG - British Forces Germany
LFSO - Land Forces Standing Orders
Time for the blues to stand aside perhaps?
When I was in a green dominated civil service organisation, whenever anyone directed me to LFSO I would refer them to the fact that we were not in LAND and if and orders were relevant they were AIR and if they wished me to abide by the content of a LAND document then they should re-issue it with their own imprimatur.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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P_N - no it isn't.
I specifically said the Intranet, not the internet. I am referring to a Restricted document and you are referring to something else.
I specifically said the Intranet, not the internet. I am referring to a Restricted document and you are referring to something else.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Mr CH, I concede:
http://www2.armynet.mod.uk/linkedfil..._comdguide.pdf
Refers to LFSO 3209 so I believe the links are both relevant if not exactly your LFSO. And I did not Intranet but what with the leaks and FOI who knows what you will find in open source.
http://www2.armynet.mod.uk/linkedfil..._comdguide.pdf
Refers to LFSO 3209 so I believe the links are both relevant if not exactly your LFSO. And I did not Intranet but what with the leaks and FOI who knows what you will find in open source.
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If you do a 5, 6,8 week det and have to decompress, why doesn't your replacement come out 2 days earlier and you decompress then go home as planned.
Where do I find on JPA the Trade Union Membership form, Sorry I forgot, I'm British Mil and I do what I'm told to do, whether I agree with it or not.
P.S 1100 Plus days away under my belt
Where do I find on JPA the Trade Union Membership form, Sorry I forgot, I'm British Mil and I do what I'm told to do, whether I agree with it or not.
P.S 1100 Plus days away under my belt
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relevant
why doesn't your replacement come out 2 days earlier and you decompress then go home as planned.
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An interesting LFSO.
The name would imply that the SO applied to the whole of LF - this would include the RAF SHF (as part of JHC) but would not (for instance) apply to 1RTR (AIR Command) or 1 RIFLES (NAVY Command (as part of 3 (Cdo) Bde)). However, the detail of the document only applies to the Army - though it's not clear if this is the whole Army or just the Army elements of Land Forces (my guess is that it is the former as I would imagine that CINC LF has full command over Army personnel in other commands the same way that CINC AIR has full command of RAF personnel in NC, LF, PJHQ etc).
There is nothing in this document that would apply it to, say, a Tornado or RAF Regt squadron as they are neither part of the Army nor part of Land Forces. Furthermore, HERRICK is not a LF op. It is a Joint Op under CJO to which NC, LF, and AIR provide capabilities and personnel.
So if there is a joint policy, it isn't the LFSO. It should be issued by PJHQ (commanded by an RAF officer) who are responisble for deploying, sustaining and recovering the UK Forces deployed under Op HERRICK. The LFSO refers to a PJHQ FRAGO on decompression.
If then, it is a PJHQ policy it would appear to be unfiar to blame the implementation on the Army when it has been directed by an organisation commanded by an air marshal.
The name would imply that the SO applied to the whole of LF - this would include the RAF SHF (as part of JHC) but would not (for instance) apply to 1RTR (AIR Command) or 1 RIFLES (NAVY Command (as part of 3 (Cdo) Bde)). However, the detail of the document only applies to the Army - though it's not clear if this is the whole Army or just the Army elements of Land Forces (my guess is that it is the former as I would imagine that CINC LF has full command over Army personnel in other commands the same way that CINC AIR has full command of RAF personnel in NC, LF, PJHQ etc).
There is nothing in this document that would apply it to, say, a Tornado or RAF Regt squadron as they are neither part of the Army nor part of Land Forces. Furthermore, HERRICK is not a LF op. It is a Joint Op under CJO to which NC, LF, and AIR provide capabilities and personnel.
So if there is a joint policy, it isn't the LFSO. It should be issued by PJHQ (commanded by an RAF officer) who are responisble for deploying, sustaining and recovering the UK Forces deployed under Op HERRICK. The LFSO refers to a PJHQ FRAGO on decompression.
If then, it is a PJHQ policy it would appear to be unfiar to blame the implementation on the Army when it has been directed by an organisation commanded by an air marshal.
Last edited by Climebear; 28th Apr 2011 at 13:38.
Champagne anyone...?
P.S 1100 Plus days away under my belt
As for doing what I'm told, well yes indeed no-one here is suggesting we go on strike over it merely that it is a bollocks plan introduced sweepingly by those who are hard of thinking. Still, we need more folk like you - folk who are quite prepared to charge stark-naked at Jerry without asking any difficult questions of the h'officers.
Pip pip.
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I've only ever decompressed once and I view it as a complete waste of time/energy/effort (as it currently stands)........
I woke up at 4am and proceeded to complete a full days work 6am-6pm, then I ate, and packed my kit, picked up at 7.30pm and taken to the air terminal.
THEN THE "PROCESSING" STARTS....
I sat around for 2 hours until my flight from Basrah to Kuwait
I sat around for 3 hours in a brightly lit tent (with an open door for the smokers......and more annoyingly mosquitoes!!!!!)
I board my flight to Akrotiri and arrive at 4am
We are bussed to Camp Radio Sonde were we are greeted by several JOLLY pongo's who brief us on our stay:
H&S, Programme, etc "...and yuo'll all have to stay around until 7am when the boss will get here and brief you!", "complusary Tunnel Beach attendance", "if you want to do watersports, then you'll have to pass an ARMY swim test"
Sorry, but NO! - I've been awake for over 24hrs!!! - It's no wonder that some poor squaddie was killed by a speedboat only a few months later.
I went to bed with the intention of getting up at about 2pm to attend the beach (get my beach tick) and not end up like the blokes in the DVD/Powerpoint presentation we were given in Basrah (of a bloke asleep on the beach with a tanline/sunburn line creeping up his back!)
When I awoke, it was too windy for watersports, so everyone had come back from the beach!
We had a BBQ, some cypriot tried to flog us suits, then a comedy show from the same guys I had seen in Bastion 2 years earlier (with the same jokes!)
Next morning, bussed back to Akrotiri and flew home.
As I said, it's a waste of time as it stands - It's either 24hrs too long, or 24hrs too short.
Give us a day to rest/sleep/relax before dropping "compulsary" events on us!
I woke up at 4am and proceeded to complete a full days work 6am-6pm, then I ate, and packed my kit, picked up at 7.30pm and taken to the air terminal.
THEN THE "PROCESSING" STARTS....
I sat around for 2 hours until my flight from Basrah to Kuwait
I sat around for 3 hours in a brightly lit tent (with an open door for the smokers......and more annoyingly mosquitoes!!!!!)
I board my flight to Akrotiri and arrive at 4am
We are bussed to Camp Radio Sonde were we are greeted by several JOLLY pongo's who brief us on our stay:
H&S, Programme, etc "...and yuo'll all have to stay around until 7am when the boss will get here and brief you!", "complusary Tunnel Beach attendance", "if you want to do watersports, then you'll have to pass an ARMY swim test"
Sorry, but NO! - I've been awake for over 24hrs!!! - It's no wonder that some poor squaddie was killed by a speedboat only a few months later.
I went to bed with the intention of getting up at about 2pm to attend the beach (get my beach tick) and not end up like the blokes in the DVD/Powerpoint presentation we were given in Basrah (of a bloke asleep on the beach with a tanline/sunburn line creeping up his back!)
When I awoke, it was too windy for watersports, so everyone had come back from the beach!
We had a BBQ, some cypriot tried to flog us suits, then a comedy show from the same guys I had seen in Bastion 2 years earlier (with the same jokes!)
Next morning, bussed back to Akrotiri and flew home.
As I said, it's a waste of time as it stands - It's either 24hrs too long, or 24hrs too short.
Give us a day to rest/sleep/relax before dropping "compulsary" events on us!
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Almost identical experience
My experience of decomp was entirely negative. I tagged along with another unit that I'd never met and we were stuck at Radiosonde with no option of the beach due to bad weather. The showers were cold, the beds were crap and entertainment lacklustre. And the most annoying thing of all was the beer scam. Yes a dirty underhand scam. You paid 5 euro for 2 beer tokens (oh yes, euros that I hadn't seen or been able to get hold of for months - genius!). Then you could exchange your token, one at a time for an open can of beer. When finished you exchanged your empty can for another one. But if you didn't want the other can (due to manic depression on being stuck at Radiosonde) then you lost your money....
....and some scammer kept either your money or your beer. Nice gig if you can get it.
Waste of time for anyone who has family/a life at home.
Whinge over.
....and some scammer kept either your money or your beer. Nice gig if you can get it.
Waste of time for anyone who has family/a life at home.
Whinge over.
Any RAF guys in a position to try out the "LFSOs don't apply to anyone except LAND forces" line, please post the results on here.... I think I will work on it for the next time my unit deploys!
Thread Starter
Right!! Decompression complete and I can assure you all that it is an UTTER waste of time for guys who are behind the wire and frequently on short dets.
The food is substantially worse than Kandahar, let alone Bastion and other bases! On arrival in Cyprus, you are 'not allowed' the fresh fruit and juices as they are pay as you dine.
Next comes the herding on and off the buses to the beach, where you have to spend 6 hours before the next bus ride to Camp Blood hound, where once again the food is really quite poor.
The comedy show is reasonable, however the NON air conditioned 40 man rooms are far from ideal.
The worst part is being spoken down to by a padre and a mental health 'expert' who read off his briefing sheet. To a man, we all felt 5 years old and completely patronised.
The staff are extremely friendly and do their best dressed in 'Butlins' polo shirts. However, this counts as an OOA for them ( 4 month det) and I wonder how many of them have actually been on an operational tour in Afgan? The ones I spoke to certainly had not.
The biggest point for me was that Marines who had been out for 2 1/2 months were going home on R and R and apparently, even with their horrendous recent experiences, were ok to go straight there. Yet, someone who has lived in 'comfort' for 5 weeks, good bed, good food, wifi, phone calls, no threat and behind the wire has to decom??!!!
All in all, this is another ass covering exercise that is costing an absolute fortune and more importantly, reducing our operational effectiveness and turn around time.
The food is substantially worse than Kandahar, let alone Bastion and other bases! On arrival in Cyprus, you are 'not allowed' the fresh fruit and juices as they are pay as you dine.
Next comes the herding on and off the buses to the beach, where you have to spend 6 hours before the next bus ride to Camp Blood hound, where once again the food is really quite poor.
The comedy show is reasonable, however the NON air conditioned 40 man rooms are far from ideal.
The worst part is being spoken down to by a padre and a mental health 'expert' who read off his briefing sheet. To a man, we all felt 5 years old and completely patronised.
The staff are extremely friendly and do their best dressed in 'Butlins' polo shirts. However, this counts as an OOA for them ( 4 month det) and I wonder how many of them have actually been on an operational tour in Afgan? The ones I spoke to certainly had not.
The biggest point for me was that Marines who had been out for 2 1/2 months were going home on R and R and apparently, even with their horrendous recent experiences, were ok to go straight there. Yet, someone who has lived in 'comfort' for 5 weeks, good bed, good food, wifi, phone calls, no threat and behind the wire has to decom??!!!
All in all, this is another ass covering exercise that is costing an absolute fortune and more importantly, reducing our operational effectiveness and turn around time.
