Typhoon - Lack of Spares. No shocks there then
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Typhoon - Lack of Spares. No shocks there then
BBC News - RAF Typhoon jets 'grounded owing to spares shortages'
Ahhh "Robbing", brings back so many happy memories.
The committee claimed that the RAF was having to cannibalise aircraft for spare parts in order to keep the maximum number of Typhoon
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Originally Posted by dkh51250
BAE should be picking up the tab for any airframe shortfalls.
Don't ask why the MoD put in place such bone programme inhibitors: it didn't; the Treasury did.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
that wonderful barely enough just too late principle
Prior to 13.1.88 MoD had a max/min stock level system. The "min" level included War Reserve so during peacetime you never actually got down to the "min" level. In theory.
On 13.1.88, AMSO decided to scrap all consumable spares held both at MoD and Industry to support 4th line repair. Henceforth, spares demands that were at inability took the procurement lead time (at least 12 months for many) to be satisfied. Of course, this meant the spares that were scrapped had to be replaced more or less immediately, but as they were now to be bought on an "as required" basis, the unit price rocketed. (Try going to a supplier and asking for one Travelling Wave Tube. Something that cost £8k each for Qty 50, now cost £20k for a one-off, due to production yield etc. That's a typical FW example of the day).
To complement this wasteful policy, from 1.10.90 any demand for a repairable or limited class store (LRUs etc) was allowed to go to inability and only then was a requisition raised to initiate contract action for a repair contract. Again, the lead time was in many cases 12 months. (Contract negotiation, order spares, repair etc).
As part of this policy, the concept of holding War Reserve serviceable was ditched as another savings measure. AMSO successfully met their target by managing to rid us of much War Reserve "just in time" for the outbreak of GW1.
The later introduction of "just in time" was actually a desperate attempt to rescind these policies by acknowledging that front line units usually required whatever they were demanding PDQ.
When generations have been brought up under the old systems I describe, "just in time" is unlikely to work very well!
And then along came "Integrated Operational Support" contracts..... God help us.
It's a frightening scenario .....
...you've laid out for us, Tuc.
I often wonder if ANY of these very clever chaps ever see the results of their thinking?
I remember a long time ago being told about "Monte Carlo" simulation where you created a lot of likely outcomes and then rolled dice to answer the question "What do we do if......happens" Surely there must be a modern equivalent? Do they ever use it?
I did hear first hand of a young sharp graduate sent in by the management consultants who queried why we kept such large stocks of ammunition when the "just in time" practice would fill the bill. It took a much older and wiser head to say "Listen son you're a squaddie in a forward outpost. You're under fire and you run out of bullets. How do you propose resupplying him in that situation"
"I hadn't thought of that....!"
Answer was the management consultants hired an independent consultant with direct sevice experience to sort out the FUBAR (and bill MOD for the second consultant's fee.)
T'would make you weep.
The Ancient Mariner
I often wonder if ANY of these very clever chaps ever see the results of their thinking?
I remember a long time ago being told about "Monte Carlo" simulation where you created a lot of likely outcomes and then rolled dice to answer the question "What do we do if......happens" Surely there must be a modern equivalent? Do they ever use it?
I did hear first hand of a young sharp graduate sent in by the management consultants who queried why we kept such large stocks of ammunition when the "just in time" practice would fill the bill. It took a much older and wiser head to say "Listen son you're a squaddie in a forward outpost. You're under fire and you run out of bullets. How do you propose resupplying him in that situation"
"I hadn't thought of that....!"
Answer was the management consultants hired an independent consultant with direct sevice experience to sort out the FUBAR (and bill MOD for the second consultant's fee.)
T'would make you weep.
The Ancient Mariner
I think the Libya Debacle is showing up just how lacking an ability there is to keep a minor operation going for any length of time both in resources and crew.
Russians no doubt are taking all this in as now would be an ideal time to start playing games out of the North Atlantic for a couple of weeks.
I'd ask how it has come to this but shareholders of the suppliers are smiling.
Least the almost 100 year old expression from WW1 is still apt, the Donkeys are still in charge.
Russians no doubt are taking all this in as now would be an ideal time to start playing games out of the North Atlantic for a couple of weeks.
I'd ask how it has come to this but shareholders of the suppliers are smiling.
Least the almost 100 year old expression from WW1 is still apt, the Donkeys are still in charge.
This is old news. How many more times are journalists going to re-hash an old story in order to get an attention grabbing headline?
House of Commons Oral Evidence - Public Accounts Committee - 9th March 2011.
Corrected Evidence - 860-i
Public Accounts Committee - Thirtieth Report - Management of the Typhoon Project
House of Commons - Management of the Typhoon Project - Public Accounts Committee
TJ
House of Commons Oral Evidence - Public Accounts Committee - 9th March 2011.
Corrected Evidence - 860-i
Public Accounts Committee - Thirtieth Report - Management of the Typhoon Project
House of Commons - Management of the Typhoon Project - Public Accounts Committee
TJ
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What It boils down to is that we either fund our armed forces properly or stop pretending that we are still a world player and poking our nose into things.
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Shock horror aircraft get robbed lol......... They must be living in a dream world, never happened on Tornados at war did it..............
LOL
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Lack of stores
More Battles have been lost to lack of Supply and Logistics that you can shake a stick at. By the sounds of it (I have been out for 8 years) the RAF Supply network as been taken back 40 years, by handing most of the Supply network to the Army (God Bless Them). Back in the late 70s when the RAF Supply got its first real time computer, the AMSO could for the first time there and then see what he had in stock and where it was located and in the case of reparables what condition they were in and how long it would take to get them back on the shelf. In the RAF not a spare part large or small ever belonged to an individual unit or Sqn it was always owned by the bigger RAF, and could be moved to where it was needed by command authority or even by some SAC working in PPC (Priority Progression Cell). This global visual of your assets was developed over many years in conjunction with the engineers and worked quite well. Don’t get me wrong nothing was ever perfect and there was always some chap who could not get a pair of shoes or socks, and to the average Joe the effectiveness of the Supply network was only what he could see in front of his nose which is understandable. But the bigger system did deliver especially to where it was important i.e. Aircraft grounded by spares in some far flung land. As the previous post stated Max and Min stocks were the life blood of any Stacker worth his salt, especially when it was done manually before effective computer systems. Even under the manual system daily reports were still signaled to Command reporting major or important items which would affect operations. In the Army this was never the case in fact once issue forward from depot it vanished into a black hole and only at regimental level did they have visual on assets. So you had the case of one regiment of Tanks U/S for spares only to have a regiment down the road with a load of spare that no one could see. In the first Gulf war the only way for the Army in Germany to prep their tanks and other important vehicles was to place adverts of BFBS TV asking all QM to report stocks, all the RAF had to do to find out about Aircraft bits and bobs was to ring command or PPC as ask for a global and they could tell you where all the bit were located and what levels of serviceability they were at, it is just as important to know what you have not got as it is important to know what you have got. So after years of developing a system for the tracking and locating valuable assets it looks as if has been kicked into touch and given over to Army. I am sure the current RAF Suppliers or (Logs Sup) or whatever they are called are doing the best job possible, but it seems the system behind them is going to Rat ****. The Military have never been like industry and unexpected wars or operation sometimes bite you in the Bum, so effective stock reserves or manpower reserves are still a must or you will fail or at least not be able to go on for very long.
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Originally Posted by tucumseh
Prior to 13.1.88 MoD had a max/min stock level system.
Then came the Consultants: KPMG. They conjoured up a series of "levers" that any simpleton could pull to make desirable things happen inside the Support Chain. The Consultant's findings and recommendations cost a lot of money to produce and there was no way anyone was to be allowed to argue with them. You don't always actually get what you pay for.
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TEEEJ
It might be old news in one form or the other, but at the end of the day the more times that it is reported by our press the more chance that the problems will be resolved.
The general public still support our Armed Forces and the politicians hate news stories like this…..so keep them coming.
I for one do not hold anybody responsible for the lack of spares. It is the way it was, the way it is, and the way it will always be. But there is a chance that something will be done to resolve the issues when these problems are continually highlighted to the general public.
NutLoose
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It might be old news in one form or the other, but at the end of the day the more times that it is reported by our press the more chance that the problems will be resolved.
The general public still support our Armed Forces and the politicians hate news stories like this…..so keep them coming.
I for one do not hold anybody responsible for the lack of spares. It is the way it was, the way it is, and the way it will always be. But there is a chance that something will be done to resolve the issues when these problems are continually highlighted to the general public.
NutLoose
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Lewis Page can f*ck off, along with Sharkey. I'm getting fed up with this inane drivel.
Buy american, it's the best. The Americans never have overspend. All their equipment is on time and cost.Ballocks!
In the words of Malcom Tucker;-
"F*ck the F*ck off!"
I'm going the pub................
Buy american, it's the best. The Americans never have overspend. All their equipment is on time and cost.Ballocks!
In the words of Malcom Tucker;-
"F*ck the F*ck off!"
I'm going the pub................
