Spare a thought for these guys.
Thread Starter
Spare a thought for these guys.
The Japanese aircrew [and ground technicians] deserve our thoughts and best wishes for exposing themselves in the nuclear plant crisis. 
In a desperate bid to prevent that from happening, crews flying CH-47 Chinook helicopters alternated flights, limiting their exposure during the four flyovers of their 12-minute mission
In a desperate bid to prevent that from happening, crews flying CH-47 Chinook helicopters alternated flights, limiting their exposure during the four flyovers of their 12-minute mission
Red On, Green On
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Who-ever thought up the idea didn't then do a dummy run over a safe site first. If 5% of the water released hit the target I'd be surprised, having seen the news footage. Big cahunas, but not really any point to their risk-taking.
Mrs Artist wondered if they could get fire-fighting tugs close inshore - the pumps on those things are huge.
Mrs Artist wondered if they could get fire-fighting tugs close inshore - the pumps on those things are huge.
)
Can they not fly in NBC suits?
NBC suits only really protect against alpha radiation and ingestion of radioactive material.
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The usual 'hats off' remark is grossly inappropriate to what these crews are being asked to do. Never could a more important bit of voice marshalling and anticipation be asked for. I'm sure the JASDF have their best and bravest on the job.
Imagine the same happening amoung our own.
Because words are inadequate, 'Hats off' to you guys, I hope you come out of it ok.
From a crewman.
Imagine the same happening amoung our own.
Because words are inadequate, 'Hats off' to you guys, I hope you come out of it ok.
From a crewman.
Last edited by seafuryfan; 17th Mar 2011 at 23:06.
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Truly inspirational, along side the 50 working in doors these folks are without doubt without equals..... one hopes they will survive to a ripe old age..............
With the sea on it's doorstep and the amount of petrol driven pumps the Japanese produce I cannot understand why the chinooks were not dragging and dropping hoses onto the buildings so water could be pumped to where it is needed.......... but then we are not there...........
I do hope they all come through this and Japan recognises their sacrifices, no matter what the outcome..
Heroes is a word often banded around in the media to describe the mundane....... If they ever needed a reality check on the definition of a hero, they need look no further........
One thinks of the teams in place the world over to cope with oil fires and spills, why there appears not to be a worldwide one with the equipment in place to respond at short notice to deal with such an incident is beyond me... with the advances in remotely piloted drones, one would think a remote chinook or the likes would be a possibility too..... thus saving putting crews in danger.
With the sea on it's doorstep and the amount of petrol driven pumps the Japanese produce I cannot understand why the chinooks were not dragging and dropping hoses onto the buildings so water could be pumped to where it is needed.......... but then we are not there...........
I do hope they all come through this and Japan recognises their sacrifices, no matter what the outcome..
Heroes is a word often banded around in the media to describe the mundane....... If they ever needed a reality check on the definition of a hero, they need look no further........
One thinks of the teams in place the world over to cope with oil fires and spills, why there appears not to be a worldwide one with the equipment in place to respond at short notice to deal with such an incident is beyond me... with the advances in remotely piloted drones, one would think a remote chinook or the likes would be a possibility too..... thus saving putting crews in danger.
Trim Stab is correct. To complete the picture, the cab itself will protect them from (most) beta radiation.
For Mrs Artist - have a guess what the inshore waters are like after a tsunami? They'd probably come to grief on some submerged objects, even if they could get close enough, which I don't think they can from google Earth pix.
Thunderbird7 is sadly right. They are having to make it up, since 4 of the 5 back-up systems were rendered inop by the earthquake and/or tsunami, and the batteries lasted their advertised 8 hours.
A 5% chance is worth taking when all your other options look like 0%.
The key is restoring mains power if it isn't too late. They managed that a few hours ago. Too late would be if they haven't got a means of refilling the spent fuel ponds, or said ponds are cracked.
I currently lecture at Uni in systems engineering and physics, and used to be a sqn NBC Instructor. These guys current best option is very bad. They are in a world of hurt. Anybody prepared to put their life on the line for even a chance at mitigating the problem deserves our deepest respect.
For Mrs Artist - have a guess what the inshore waters are like after a tsunami? They'd probably come to grief on some submerged objects, even if they could get close enough, which I don't think they can from google Earth pix.
Thunderbird7 is sadly right. They are having to make it up, since 4 of the 5 back-up systems were rendered inop by the earthquake and/or tsunami, and the batteries lasted their advertised 8 hours.
A 5% chance is worth taking when all your other options look like 0%.
The key is restoring mains power if it isn't too late. They managed that a few hours ago. Too late would be if they haven't got a means of refilling the spent fuel ponds, or said ponds are cracked.
I currently lecture at Uni in systems engineering and physics, and used to be a sqn NBC Instructor. These guys current best option is very bad. They are in a world of hurt. Anybody prepared to put their life on the line for even a chance at mitigating the problem deserves our deepest respect.
Thread Starter
Modern Samurais..
NEWSPAPER ARTICLE TODAY.
The aircrew are in the same boat so as to speak...
THEY are being hailed as the modern-day Samurai - the 180 brave men who stayed behind to fight the crisis at Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant, knowing they had very likely volunteered for a suicide mission.
Communication with workers in the plant is nearly impossible.
But the message that came out from one of them was that he was "not afraid to die", that that was his job.
The parents, wives and children of these brave men may never see them again, but they are proud of their sacrifice.
A 27-year-old woman, whose "Twitter" name is @NamicoAoto, tweeted that her father had volunteered for Fukushima duty.
"I heard that he volunteered even though he will be retiring in just half-a-year and my eyes are filling up with tears," she tweeted.
"At home, he doesn't seem like someone who could handle big jobs.
"But today, I was proud of him. I pray for his safe return."
Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan told the volunteers: "You are the only ones who can resolve a crisis. Retreat is unthinkable."
In shifts of 50, with no electricity, they are working in total darkness using torches or helmets with lamps on them.
Wearing head-to-toe protective gear and breathing through oxygen tanks as radiation reaches potentially lethal levels and temperatures soar, they crawl through dark mazes of pipes to make an adjustment on a valve or to read a gauge.
Nuclear experts say the skeleton crew is most likely not made up of managers but technicians, including firefighters, who know the plant inside out.
They are more likely to be skilled older men than fit young ones because they have already had children.
And, even if they are exposed to massive amounts of radiation, their cancers are unlikely to develop in their lifetime.
The volunteers are being rotated in and out of the danger zone, often for only 10 or 15 minutes at a time, to limit their radiation exposure.
Japan's Health Minister Yoko Komiyama has raised the legal limit on the amount of radiation to which each worker can be exposed to 250 millisieverts from 100 millisieverts.
The average annual limit for nuclear power plant workers is 20 millisieverts and most do not absorb more than 1 millisievert in a year.
University of Tokyo Hospital Department of Radiology Associate Professor Keiichi Nakagawa, said: "I don't know any other way to say it, but this is like suicide fighters in a war."
The aircrew are in the same boat so as to speak...
THEY are being hailed as the modern-day Samurai - the 180 brave men who stayed behind to fight the crisis at Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant, knowing they had very likely volunteered for a suicide mission.
Communication with workers in the plant is nearly impossible.
But the message that came out from one of them was that he was "not afraid to die", that that was his job.
The parents, wives and children of these brave men may never see them again, but they are proud of their sacrifice.
A 27-year-old woman, whose "Twitter" name is @NamicoAoto, tweeted that her father had volunteered for Fukushima duty.
"I heard that he volunteered even though he will be retiring in just half-a-year and my eyes are filling up with tears," she tweeted.
"At home, he doesn't seem like someone who could handle big jobs.
"But today, I was proud of him. I pray for his safe return."
Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan told the volunteers: "You are the only ones who can resolve a crisis. Retreat is unthinkable."
In shifts of 50, with no electricity, they are working in total darkness using torches or helmets with lamps on them.
Wearing head-to-toe protective gear and breathing through oxygen tanks as radiation reaches potentially lethal levels and temperatures soar, they crawl through dark mazes of pipes to make an adjustment on a valve or to read a gauge.
Nuclear experts say the skeleton crew is most likely not made up of managers but technicians, including firefighters, who know the plant inside out.
They are more likely to be skilled older men than fit young ones because they have already had children.
And, even if they are exposed to massive amounts of radiation, their cancers are unlikely to develop in their lifetime.
The volunteers are being rotated in and out of the danger zone, often for only 10 or 15 minutes at a time, to limit their radiation exposure.
Japan's Health Minister Yoko Komiyama has raised the legal limit on the amount of radiation to which each worker can be exposed to 250 millisieverts from 100 millisieverts.
The average annual limit for nuclear power plant workers is 20 millisieverts and most do not absorb more than 1 millisievert in a year.
University of Tokyo Hospital Department of Radiology Associate Professor Keiichi Nakagawa, said: "I don't know any other way to say it, but this is like suicide fighters in a war."
Appropriate I think to remember the Chernobyl helo pilots also; just about 25 years now, and I doubt their surviving families have had the best of it. One who survived for a few years grimly pointed out that his yearly "special radiation" pension bought 2/3 of one cup of tea.
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especially not knowing (or possibly do knowing)
Chief Bottle Washer
As already said, they are selfless individuals flying to help others
But I do despair when I watch what seems to be basic errors being made in the execution of the water drops. Any Helitac pilot will have advised on a host of improvement in the techniques used, from a correct drop line and speed, to using a long line to get the bucket closer to the zone and thus give a better saturation. The most I've flown was a 900ft line, even a 250' would have improved their drop accuracy enormously.
I can't help but feel it was a valiant but wasted effort: and hope that they get the right advice before trying again.
But I do despair when I watch what seems to be basic errors being made in the execution of the water drops. Any Helitac pilot will have advised on a host of improvement in the techniques used, from a correct drop line and speed, to using a long line to get the bucket closer to the zone and thus give a better saturation. The most I've flown was a 900ft line, even a 250' would have improved their drop accuracy enormously.
I can't help but feel it was a valiant but wasted effort: and hope that they get the right advice before trying again.
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These guys deserve the title Samurai.
Question time: Did the Soviets not use sand when they did this back in 1986 ? And if so, is there any reason why the Japanese are not doing the same thing now ?
Question time: Did the Soviets not use sand when they did this back in 1986 ? And if so, is there any reason why the Japanese are not doing the same thing now ?
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Hadn't Chernobyl exploded expelling the core material, so they were trying to cover it more than cool it?, where as in this case they are trying to cool it.
