The cuts haven't reached the Herc Force yet then !
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hardly Worth it
Perhaps,instead of looking stupid, you will take time to explain hiow long you have been 69 degrees North and how much LSA and LOA you have trousered. Just how good is RNOAF Bardufoss with cheap beer on tap in milliways today?
Give us a clue as to your daily rate of LOA
Perhaps you would like to explain why being in Norg results in a bigger pay packet than is paid to those in Kaf or Bastion and how you have been so disadvantged.
Base party or Sqdn?......let us all know as you need shaming!...I'm intrigued having done Winters in 94/95/96/98/01/02 with both 46&45 @ Bardufoss, Fagerness & Eveness.
Perhaps,instead of looking stupid, you will take time to explain hiow long you have been 69 degrees North and how much LSA and LOA you have trousered. Just how good is RNOAF Bardufoss with cheap beer on tap in milliways today?
Give us a clue as to your daily rate of LOA
Perhaps you would like to explain why being in Norg results in a bigger pay packet than is paid to those in Kaf or Bastion and how you have been so disadvantged.
Base party or Sqdn?......let us all know as you need shaming!...I'm intrigued having done Winters in 94/95/96/98/01/02 with both 46&45 @ Bardufoss, Fagerness & Eveness.
Talk Reaction
Get off your high horse about single rooms - things have changed,
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: yorks
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I presume that the accn you offered allowed personnel to get an undisturbed nights sleep in single man rooms?
Or do you want a tired C130 crew flying you out over the mountains?"
To be fair, it is exactly the same accomodation that rotary crews use for several months every single winter and achieve crew rest period in order to go flying IN ont OVER the mountains every single day and night of the training period.
Perhaps flying a C130 from one full facilities civvy airfield to LYN is harder then flying loads in recirculating snow at night...............I wouldn't know as I have never done the former.
Or do you want a tired C130 crew flying you out over the mountains?"
To be fair, it is exactly the same accomodation that rotary crews use for several months every single winter and achieve crew rest period in order to go flying IN ont OVER the mountains every single day and night of the training period.
Perhaps flying a C130 from one full facilities civvy airfield to LYN is harder then flying loads in recirculating snow at night...............I wouldn't know as I have never done the former.
BUMLINE
Unless the C130 crew are a designated part of and named on the ex op order your point does not apply; the crew would be in sub standard accommodation and therefore breaking the rules. This really is an AT bashing non thread.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: In the Ether
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grow up, one team, stop looking out for ourselves at the expense of reality.
It's a peacetime Ex. Grow up. The term "air-worthiness" covers a lot more than the just the techie world these days!
Last edited by Uncle Ginsters; 3rd Mar 2011 at 21:23.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hunker down
The way morale is going, this could develop into a real mud-slinger. Op Order or not there's accom available - get on and use it and stop the pathetic line-in-the-sand we need proper crew rest hotac (and bar). I do sometimes wonder how 2 Gp crews can support such obvious 'grind' that is generated between the services when this stuff is exposed and for no real reason.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 250msd
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jimmy,
Wind your neck in. Your hardly in a service which can claim its anymore deserving of applause then any of the other services! Tell me how have you enjoyed your ski trip up norf?
Im hoping your not too spineless to tell your opinions to the crew when they arrive on friday, Or will you just do as your told and be thankful when you are returned to the UK?
Jimmy if you actually knew why this was the case maybe you wouldnt be embarrassing yourself and your service by writing such tosh!
Wind your neck in. Your hardly in a service which can claim its anymore deserving of applause then any of the other services! Tell me how have you enjoyed your ski trip up norf?
Im hoping your not too spineless to tell your opinions to the crew when they arrive on friday, Or will you just do as your told and be thankful when you are returned to the UK?
Jimmy if you actually knew why this was the case maybe you wouldnt be embarrassing yourself and your service by writing such tosh!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
xenolith
you're quite right the rules haven't changed and STILL don't say anything about single rooms, just uninterupted rest. Many aircrew with far more demanding jobs get by living in multiple bunked rooms on various shifts or even, god forbid, tents!
Stop being sanctimonious, using phrases like sub-standard rooms
We were all up in arms about MPs taking the system for a ride, what do you think stories like the one at the start of this thread sound like.
you're quite right the rules haven't changed and STILL don't say anything about single rooms, just uninterupted rest. Many aircrew with far more demanding jobs get by living in multiple bunked rooms on various shifts or even, god forbid, tents!
Stop being sanctimonious, using phrases like sub-standard rooms
We were all up in arms about MPs taking the system for a ride, what do you think stories like the one at the start of this thread sound like.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: In the Ether
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many aircrew with far more demanding jobs get by living in multiple bunked rooms on various shifts or even, god forbid, tents!
Are you telling me you haven't ever seen a spend in the last month of the financial year?
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 250msd
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
291paspine. Sort out your atrocious spelling. It makes a post difficult to read.
Sort your life out and focus on the topic of this thread rather than your self imposed role as the S&G Police.
291Paspine, terrible grammar and spelling aside (!) does make a valid point.
I wonder if the complainers will approach the captain and make their views known???
After all, it will be solely his fault that the accommodation was booked for the crew by travel cell ( or Ascot Ops, or Dscom, seeing as it's their task).
I wonder if the complainers will approach the captain and make their views known???
After all, it will be solely his fault that the accommodation was booked for the crew by travel cell ( or Ascot Ops, or Dscom, seeing as it's their task).
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kinloss
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The benchmark to be used in this non-operational case is the standard of public accommodation that would be used back at base. If the crew had to be accommodated at/close to Lyneham overnight, they sure as hell should not be sent to the Wiltshire Hotel , unless the station could not accomodate them.
So, does the service accm at Bardufoss meet the standards of the messes and barracks at Lyneham? From what I remember of the Sgts Mess, its not difficult to meet.
Next question: can the capt (or his Flt Cdr) claim that he needs to keep all of his crew co-located (same building) overnight?) Difficult to answer yes with a structured transop that everybody is briefed on. Mobile phones now obviate the need to keep the crew together.
I think it is very difficult for anyone to justify hotac when acceptable service accm close to the airfield is available.
Clearly the crews do not make the decisions at the planning stage. As was always the case when I was an Ascoteer, someone else booked the hotel, the hire cars and the imprest well within the bounds of Gp Orders, to ensure that they could not be brought to book when the crew complained of fatigue. I suggest the Ops staff (at Gp?) should review their methods. "we always do it this way, because its easy (1 phone call to hotac)" is no longer good enough. Its certainly indefensible, regardless of any reference to finances.
Regards
Ed
So, does the service accm at Bardufoss meet the standards of the messes and barracks at Lyneham? From what I remember of the Sgts Mess, its not difficult to meet.
Next question: can the capt (or his Flt Cdr) claim that he needs to keep all of his crew co-located (same building) overnight?) Difficult to answer yes with a structured transop that everybody is briefed on. Mobile phones now obviate the need to keep the crew together.
I think it is very difficult for anyone to justify hotac when acceptable service accm close to the airfield is available.
Clearly the crews do not make the decisions at the planning stage. As was always the case when I was an Ascoteer, someone else booked the hotel, the hire cars and the imprest well within the bounds of Gp Orders, to ensure that they could not be brought to book when the crew complained of fatigue. I suggest the Ops staff (at Gp?) should review their methods. "we always do it this way, because its easy (1 phone call to hotac)" is no longer good enough. Its certainly indefensible, regardless of any reference to finances.
Regards
Ed
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: troon
Age: 61
Posts: 551
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh FFS!
Where to begin...
Well 1st off you all sound like a bunch of phuquing children who have had their toys taken off them - MAN UP THE LOT O' YER!
To the Poster of this thread "Hardly worth it"
- Its alright to have an opinion and even hate crabs, I dont hate them, I just feel that they have their own agenda like the other 2 services. And BTW Opinons are like ar5sh0les - everyones got one.
To the winging (mainly) Light blue - Yes you need rest somewhere quiet for undisturbed sleep. How about taking tent to the other end of the Airfield where there is no Bar or nightlife to disturb you. I know I'd feel a lot safer on Crab AT if I'd known the crew hadn't been getting "Relaxed as newts" the night before. And you wouldn't come in for quite as much attention from people like H_O_W
Sorry for the rant but I feel for you all - whatever coulour of uniform you wear but acting like a bunch of bl00dy drama queens is not going to help.
Well 1st off you all sound like a bunch of phuquing children who have had their toys taken off them - MAN UP THE LOT O' YER!
To the Poster of this thread "Hardly worth it"
- Its alright to have an opinion and even hate crabs, I dont hate them, I just feel that they have their own agenda like the other 2 services. And BTW Opinons are like ar5sh0les - everyones got one.
To the winging (mainly) Light blue - Yes you need rest somewhere quiet for undisturbed sleep. How about taking tent to the other end of the Airfield where there is no Bar or nightlife to disturb you. I know I'd feel a lot safer on Crab AT if I'd known the crew hadn't been getting "Relaxed as newts" the night before. And you wouldn't come in for quite as much attention from people like H_O_W
Sorry for the rant but I feel for you all - whatever coulour of uniform you wear but acting like a bunch of bl00dy drama queens is not going to help.
Talk Reaction
Do RAF pilots need less rest than airline crews, if so could some one tell me why?
AT crews on the Herrick are flying a regular roster/rest pattern that would not be allowable in a civilian operation. Their own medical people have said that in a recent report that the operation does not provide adequate rest after dificult operational consecutive night sectors.
It seems a macho thing amongst some on PPrune that service crews are different, although flying RAF 'airliners' in mainly civil airspace.
Just because you are in the Services does not mean you have to live in a tent in the desert when proper facilites are available elsewhere.
AT crews on the Herrick are flying a regular roster/rest pattern that would not be allowable in a civilian operation. Their own medical people have said that in a recent report that the operation does not provide adequate rest after dificult operational consecutive night sectors.
It seems a macho thing amongst some on PPrune that service crews are different, although flying RAF 'airliners' in mainly civil airspace.
Just because you are in the Services does not mean you have to live in a tent in the desert when proper facilites are available elsewhere.
Can't really be bothered entering into this one - I don't really care!
However, FWIW I have seen large scale waste and largesse from all 3 of the services over the years, including quite recently. Whether this is right or wrong, I care not, but our sister services do need to get their own houses in order before they start casting the first stone.
However, FWIW I have seen large scale waste and largesse from all 3 of the services over the years, including quite recently. Whether this is right or wrong, I care not, but our sister services do need to get their own houses in order before they start casting the first stone.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: England
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not aircrew, I have never worked on the Herc Force. But pretty much everyone on here has had experience of the good bits of Service life, and everyone has had some rough bits as well. Some people will always like to have a willy-waving competition about whose had it the hardest.
It is a very reasonable point that if there is adequate accomm available, why not use it to save money. However, I think there comes a point when the race to the bottom in terms of allowances (and banter
) becomes a bit silly. We could all start staying in YHA hostels, and it might help in PR11. But the money saved won't get spent on new kit, it'll end up being taken as a saving next year and spent on social security payments for chavs. So there's a balance: sure, it would be crass to stay in a 5 star hotel if there is adequate accomm next door... But equally putting a flight crew in the fairly average 3 star Bardufoss Hotel for a night is not automatically outrageous, especially as no one except the person who did the accomm plot really knows the score. This week they might stay in an average hotel, next week they might get shot at.
Incidentally, a quick check of hotels.com would show that the Bardufoss Hotel costs less than half the £200 a night some seem to think it costs...
PS, what are you doing in Bardufoss that you couldn't be doing in Otterburn?
It is a very reasonable point that if there is adequate accomm available, why not use it to save money. However, I think there comes a point when the race to the bottom in terms of allowances (and banter
) becomes a bit silly. We could all start staying in YHA hostels, and it might help in PR11. But the money saved won't get spent on new kit, it'll end up being taken as a saving next year and spent on social security payments for chavs. So there's a balance: sure, it would be crass to stay in a 5 star hotel if there is adequate accomm next door... But equally putting a flight crew in the fairly average 3 star Bardufoss Hotel for a night is not automatically outrageous, especially as no one except the person who did the accomm plot really knows the score. This week they might stay in an average hotel, next week they might get shot at. Incidentally, a quick check of hotels.com would show that the Bardufoss Hotel costs less than half the £200 a night some seem to think it costs...
PS, what are you doing in Bardufoss that you couldn't be doing in Otterburn?
Last edited by Clearedtoroll; 3rd Mar 2011 at 23:03.