Somali Pirates
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glasgow
Age: 61
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Loeri,
Hhmm. You have me scratching my head. What is your definition of a port? Does it have to have cranes? Quays made from concrete, driven sheet piles, a lighthouse and a lifeboat? The ancients had ports, they didn't necessarily have the above features.
My definition of a port is somewhere where vessels can call for supplies, POL, repairs, to load/ offload goods, troops etc - or any combination of the previous. Cranes are not necessary. I have been to many African and Asian ports that utilise mobile cranes if they require them.
As for ports, as you might think of them, there are huge numbers. The pirates are not limited to Somalia. You have Middle Eastern nations as well as Africans from all over Africa and access to ports in all those countries. Also, why not look across to Asia and the Indian Ocean for additional pirates.
As for lawlessness in Somalia, ask what has created the Somali pirates. Take a look at how we, the morally perfect West have totally depleted their fishing stocks for them, dumped huge amounts of toxic waste in their country, onshore and offshore, with no redress for them to prevent it from occurring. They also have no government and huge corruption and fighting, along with starvation, little education and medical facilities. I think I might be somewhat miffed and start thinking as they have; "If the West can steal from us, reduce our lifespan, and poison our food supplies, why do we not do the same".
I do not condone piracy, neither do I condone what we have done to them.
Hval
Ports?There are Ports with cranes and things there?Could have fooled me.
My definition of a port is somewhere where vessels can call for supplies, POL, repairs, to load/ offload goods, troops etc - or any combination of the previous. Cranes are not necessary. I have been to many African and Asian ports that utilise mobile cranes if they require them.
As for ports, as you might think of them, there are huge numbers. The pirates are not limited to Somalia. You have Middle Eastern nations as well as Africans from all over Africa and access to ports in all those countries. Also, why not look across to Asia and the Indian Ocean for additional pirates.
As for lawlessness in Somalia, ask what has created the Somali pirates. Take a look at how we, the morally perfect West have totally depleted their fishing stocks for them, dumped huge amounts of toxic waste in their country, onshore and offshore, with no redress for them to prevent it from occurring. They also have no government and huge corruption and fighting, along with starvation, little education and medical facilities. I think I might be somewhat miffed and start thinking as they have; "If the West can steal from us, reduce our lifespan, and poison our food supplies, why do we not do the same".
I do not condone piracy, neither do I condone what we have done to them.
Hval
Last edited by hval; 28th Feb 2011 at 21:41. Reason: Tidy up.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: US Virgin & British Virgin,Islands
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Somali Pirates
There`s a good idea!
But how to get the UN up and running would be a task unto itself...
Yes,I would be sure that the Pirates would not appreciate an eyeball up there tracing every move-----but wait a minute----are there not already a few up there good enough to read newspapers?
Maybe the UN could wet-lease one......?
But how to get the UN up and running would be a task unto itself...
Yes,I would be sure that the Pirates would not appreciate an eyeball up there tracing every move-----but wait a minute----are there not already a few up there good enough to read newspapers?
Maybe the UN could wet-lease one......?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glasgow
Age: 61
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Cazatou
There are already satellites monitoring the oceans. For example MARISS (Maritime Security Service) provides pre-operational satellite-based maritime surveillance services for European waters, East Africa, the Caribbean and the Atlantic to support maritime law enforcement, anti-trafficking interventions and to protect shipping lanes. (I copied the previous word for word). There are other satellites as well.
Satellites are an aid to the solution. A few questions. How do you recognise the "bad guys" from space? If you can tell a potential baddy, how do you get the "good guys" there in time to intercept, inspect, prevent piracy etc? You may be days away from the potential bad guys. A lot of harm could be done in that time.
As for the UN, the UN are made up of us, the nations of the world. How many are really going to provide the necessary materiel and personnel to carry out the necessary task. What countries can afford to?
Forgive me for appearing so negative, I am only trying to point out the realities. There is no simple solution. Use of brute force is only going to annoy a whole bunch more people than we already have (i.e. by supporting corrupt, nasty governments in the Middle East to guarantee our fuel supplies).
A question for you all: where does all the hostage/ hijacked ship money go? I mean, after salaries, fuel, loans, security, weapons, food etc.
How about a Geostationary Satellite monitoring the area in the vicinity of Somalia and a UN sponsored Multi National Anti - Piracy Task Force. This is not a UK problem - it is a UN problem.
Satellites are an aid to the solution. A few questions. How do you recognise the "bad guys" from space? If you can tell a potential baddy, how do you get the "good guys" there in time to intercept, inspect, prevent piracy etc? You may be days away from the potential bad guys. A lot of harm could be done in that time.
As for the UN, the UN are made up of us, the nations of the world. How many are really going to provide the necessary materiel and personnel to carry out the necessary task. What countries can afford to?
Forgive me for appearing so negative, I am only trying to point out the realities. There is no simple solution. Use of brute force is only going to annoy a whole bunch more people than we already have (i.e. by supporting corrupt, nasty governments in the Middle East to guarantee our fuel supplies).
A question for you all: where does all the hostage/ hijacked ship money go? I mean, after salaries, fuel, loans, security, weapons, food etc.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Surrey Hills
Posts: 1,478
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Russian way.....
YouTube - Russian Navy vs Somali Pirates
If in a hurry, go to 04:30
I guess the RN has to respect the Pirates Human Rights........ Here comes Cherie Blair over the horizon......
YouTube - Russian Navy vs Somali Pirates
If in a hurry, go to 04:30
I guess the RN has to respect the Pirates Human Rights........ Here comes Cherie Blair over the horizon......
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: US Virgin & British Virgin,Islands
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Somali Pirates
Hit the nail on the head,you have!
Al those sparkling new cars,new outboards,new skiffs,new weapons,radars,radio`s----the list is endless.
The post regarding (ports) and the west being to blame for the mess the country is in......well,I take you point,up to a point.Go back in history----not too far----and see who raided the coffers and split the nation and disrupted government.You may be surprised....
Al those sparkling new cars,new outboards,new skiffs,new weapons,radars,radio`s----the list is endless.
The post regarding (ports) and the west being to blame for the mess the country is in......well,I take you point,up to a point.Go back in history----not too far----and see who raided the coffers and split the nation and disrupted government.You may be surprised....
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: US Virgin & British Virgin,Islands
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Somali Pirates
Extracted from The Triton,a magazine for Yachtsmen and Mariners,with thanks."
In the hours and days after Somali pirates hijacked a 58-foot yacht off the coast of Oman and subsequently killed the four Americans aboard on Feb. 22, the yachting community struggled to make sense of news reports, government statements and military action.
“I see no reason for pirates to kill four people with a warship staring down their necks,” said Capt. Mike Dailey, who has traversed the region three times in the past year. “It just makes no sense.”
Indeed, the immediately released details present an almost unbelievable situation.
Nineteen pirates were involved in the hijacking, most of who were on the yacht when the shooting began. Four U.S. Navy warships were involved in the response force – an aircraft carrier, a guided-missile cruiser and two guided-missile destroyers. Gunfire, believed to have been a rocket-propelled grenade fired from the yacht toward one of the Navy ships, began while officials from the FBI were in negotiations with two pirates aboard the Navy ship. The remains of two pirates were found on the yacht when Navy forces boarded, killing two others and detaining 13 others.
“What possible use was an aircraft carrier?” Dailey asked. “How do you get 19 pirates on board? With the four Americans, that’s 23 people on a 50-foot boat. Who decided to divert Navy assets in aid of a 50-foot sailboat and four people?”
Details so far
According to government statements, news reports, and involved parties, S/Y Quest had been in the Blue Water Round the World Cruising Rally from Phuket, Thailand, to Mumbai, India. After arriving in Mumbai, “The skipper then made a decision to leave the Rally in Mumbai on 15 February and sail a route independent of the Rally to Salalah, [Oman],” rally organizer Peter Seymour told Sail-World.com.
According to that Web site, the owners, Scott and Jean Adams, requested an escort by the Navies patrolling the area but were denied. The yacht was hijacked about 280nm off Oman and was being taken to the northern tip of Somalia when U.S. military forces responded.
Two pirates boarded the Navy ship Feb. 21 to negotiate the crew’s release with FBI officials, according to news reports and U.S. government statements. During these negotiations, at about 1 a.m., gunfire could be heard on board the Quest, U.S. Navy Vice Admiral Mark Fox told reporters.
U.S. forces then approached and boarded the Quest, getting into a skirmish with pirates aboard. All four of the crew – the Adamses of Marina del Rey, Calif., and Phyllis Mackay and Bob Riggle of Seattle – had been shot by their captors, according to a statement from U.S. Central Command. Efforts to revive them were unsuccessful.
Two pirates were killed in the skirmish and 13 were captured and detained, CNN reported.
“In total, it is believed 19 pirates were involved in the hijacking” of the vessel, Central Command said.
No details of the negotiations or whether a ransom had been offered were available.U.S. forces had been monitoring the Quest since it was hijacked Feb. 18. U.S. Central Command said four U.S. Navy warships were involved in the response force.
More yachts attacked
The attack on the S/Y Quest is the latest in a number of attacks on yachts. According to the BBC:
1. South African couple Bruno Pelizzari and Deborah Calitz are still being held in Somalia, four months after their vessel, the S/Y Choizil, was hijacked.
2. Paul and Rachel Chandler were held for nearly 400 days after their yacht was hijacked near the Seychelles in October 2009.
3. French yacht owner Florent Lemacon was killed in April 2009 when French commandos tried to liberate him and four other people from their hijacked yacht, the Tanit, off Somalia. Somalia has had no functioning central government since 1991, allowing piracy to flourish off its coast.
In addition, the German-owned transport ship Beluga Nomination was carrying eight yachts on deck when it was hijacked en route to the Seychelles on Jan. 22. A German newscast of the incident shows photos of the ship and its yacht cargo. At least one is a megayacht. The yachts have since been off-loaded and are believed to remain in the hands of pirates, who may use them for additional attacks.
The international security flotilla’s response to that incident is another cause for question. After reporting their mayday, the crew of 12 locked themselves in the citadel, the secure room onboard where they can be safe and disable the ship. After three days, pirates were able to enter the room and take control of the ship. It remains in pirate hands.
“And we divert four warships from their primary mission of protecting the world’s merchant fleet for a 50-foot sailboat and four Americans?” Dailey asked. “How arrogant can we be? Do you think the Germans got that kind of response? The Brits didn’t.”
The Chandlers, a British couple kidnapped last year from their yacht, the Lynn Rival, were taken ashore in Somalia. British authorities negotiated their release after more than a year for about $1 million, it was reported.
In April 2009, pirates seized the U.S.-flagged Maersk Alabama, leading to a standoff in the Indian Ocean. U.S. forces moved to rescue American Capt. Richard Phillips after seeing a pirate aiming a weapon at his back, officials said at the time. Navy sharpshooters killed three pirates; one was arrested. The Somali man arrested was convicted of acts related to high-seas piracy, and a federal court in New York sentenced him last week to more than 30 years in prison.
As of Feb. 15, pirates were holding 33 vessels and 712 hostages, according to the International Maritime Bureau (IMB).
Piracy hits record
Despite having been prevalent for centuries, piracy in the region reached record numbers in 2010, the fourth straight year of increases. According to the IMB, which tracks such attacks, pirates took a record number of hostages, 1,181, and killed eight mariners.
Somali pirates accounted for 49 of the 53 ships hijacked last year and 1,106 of the kidnappings. A total of 445 attacks on ships were logged by the IMB’s piracy reporting center in Kuala Lumpur, a 10 percent increase over 2009 and the highest figure since the previous peak in 2003.
“These figures for the number of hostages and vessels taken are the highest we have ever seen,” said Capt. Pottengal Mukundan, director of the Malaysia-based Piracy Reporting Centre, which has monitored piracy worldwide since 1991. “As a percentage of global incidents, piracy on the high seas has increased dramatically over armed robbery in territorial waters. On the high seas off Somalia, heavily armed pirates are overpowering ocean-going fishing or merchant vessels to use as a base for further attacks. They capture the crew and force them to sail to within attacking distance of other unsuspecting vessels.”
More than 90 percent of ship seizures occurred off the coast of Somalia. The number of attacks in the Gulf of Aden has dropped sharply due to an international naval presence there, the IMB reported.
“I’ve seen them [pirates] moving farther south, farther east all the way to the Maldives and the Mozambique Channel,” Dailey said.
The problem is area. The entire United States east of the Mississippi River could fit into the Somali basin, Vice Admiral Fox said. Thirty-four warships patrol the region under 15 flags and work well together, he said, but “there’s a lot of places where we are not.”
A few solutions
About 800 miles to the south and east of Somalia, travelers to the Seychelles often pass through the same areas as S/Y Quest. As a yacht management company supporting visiting megayachts to the region, Alastair Maiden of Seal Superyachts Seychelles monitors piracy news.
He recommends vessels take security companies with them when transiting the Indian Ocean, Gulf of Aden and Red Sea areas.
“There are options of armed escorts,” he said. “They have small patrol boats in the area. They have six crew on each vessel and stay with the traveling yacht. Sometimes if smaller or private vessels are cruising together, they can organize a convoy and possibly afford it together.”
Most often, however, boats will use onboard security, he said. As to why S/Y Quest didn’t have security onboard, Maiden thought it might be for financial reasons.
“We had a guy in the marina on a smaller yacht going to the Maldives and, basically on the advice of the port authorities, he had the boat wintered and cancelled the trip,” Maiden said. “That size and speed cannot be protected and typically they don’t have the funds to do so.
“Anything over, say, 50m, there is a risk [of piracy], but if they take precautions and have armed security, I would say it is OK,” Maiden said. “But they must take all precautions, the razor wire, trail lines, all of it.”
Not even that will prevent an attempted attack.
“How do you go in the middle of the ocean and find a 50-foot sailboat?” Dailey asked. “These attacks are well orchestrated and well organized. They knew where they were going, and they got that information from somebody. That’s why I run dark, no AIS. When the AIS is on, I run confusing information before I leave. And I don’t tell the agents in Egypt where I’m going.”
The Marshall Islands shipping registry issued an advisory soon after the killings to advise its yacht and commercial clients to cease transiting the area.
Jon and Sue Hacking, cruisers aboard the 45-foot catamaran Ocelot who have contributed stories about their travels to The Triton since 2004, have spent the past year cruising in the Indian Ocean.
“We have thought about the problem [of piracy] quite a bit, of course, being here in the Indian Ocean,” they wrote in an e-mail to friends the day the Adamses were reported killed. “As we see it, the long-term solution probably involves lots of aid to Somalia as well as helping them establish a working government. But the Somali warlords who currently hold the power are unlikely to relinquish it anytime soon, so we also need a shorter-term solution.
“Shipping companies have no option - they must pay the ransoms - so the solution has to be military,” they wrote. “We don’t like to complain without proposing solutions, so here are a couple of proposals we’ve come up with:
“1. Blockade Somalia. The coastline is 1,600nm if you include Puntland and Somaliland along the north coast. Station ships 50-100nm off the coast (so out of Somalia’s territorial waters), search all ships coming out of Somalia and take away any weapons. No weapons, no piracy.
“The Israel’s have been doing this for years on their own coast, and Australia patrols a much longer coastline. Given Somalia’s sad economic state, not many boats are going to or from Somalia so there shouldn’t be many boats to search.
“If necessary, designate entry and exit paths and let it be known that any boat using different lanes will be attacked. This solution also prevents others from fishing the Somali coast, which has been one of their complaints.
“2. Set up stations in the Indian Ocean and the Red Sea where ships could stop to take on about four Marines. The Marines would need to be allowed to fire on pirates, or at least to return fire. The Marines would ride on and protect the ship for 2-3 days as they transit the pirate areas and then get off to catch another ship going the other way.
“Both the ships and the Marines would love it. About 300 ships/day go through that area. Unfortunately, this wouldn’t help us (unless more stations were setup) and also wouldn’t stop the attempts at piracy (the ransoms are just too great)."
Like the Hackings, the Adamses were long-term cruisers who would rather be aboard their boat than just about anywhere else. Shipping their beloved Quest on a cargo ship to the Mediterranean was not an option for them. Christian missionaries seven years into a round-the-world cruise, they opted instead in favor of sailing a new passage, even without an escort.
“They know the risks,” said Nancy Birnbaum, a freelance journalist and former editor of the Seven Seas Cruising Association newsletter. “Certainly, there are other options,” she said. “Shipping your boat is obviously safer, and it gets your boat where you want it.
“As a cruiser, though, I know it’s just part of it,” she said. “This type of trip is typical of long-term cruisers; that’s just what they do.”
In the hours and days after Somali pirates hijacked a 58-foot yacht off the coast of Oman and subsequently killed the four Americans aboard on Feb. 22, the yachting community struggled to make sense of news reports, government statements and military action.
“I see no reason for pirates to kill four people with a warship staring down their necks,” said Capt. Mike Dailey, who has traversed the region three times in the past year. “It just makes no sense.”
Indeed, the immediately released details present an almost unbelievable situation.
Nineteen pirates were involved in the hijacking, most of who were on the yacht when the shooting began. Four U.S. Navy warships were involved in the response force – an aircraft carrier, a guided-missile cruiser and two guided-missile destroyers. Gunfire, believed to have been a rocket-propelled grenade fired from the yacht toward one of the Navy ships, began while officials from the FBI were in negotiations with two pirates aboard the Navy ship. The remains of two pirates were found on the yacht when Navy forces boarded, killing two others and detaining 13 others.
“What possible use was an aircraft carrier?” Dailey asked. “How do you get 19 pirates on board? With the four Americans, that’s 23 people on a 50-foot boat. Who decided to divert Navy assets in aid of a 50-foot sailboat and four people?”
Details so far
According to government statements, news reports, and involved parties, S/Y Quest had been in the Blue Water Round the World Cruising Rally from Phuket, Thailand, to Mumbai, India. After arriving in Mumbai, “The skipper then made a decision to leave the Rally in Mumbai on 15 February and sail a route independent of the Rally to Salalah, [Oman],” rally organizer Peter Seymour told Sail-World.com.
According to that Web site, the owners, Scott and Jean Adams, requested an escort by the Navies patrolling the area but were denied. The yacht was hijacked about 280nm off Oman and was being taken to the northern tip of Somalia when U.S. military forces responded.
Two pirates boarded the Navy ship Feb. 21 to negotiate the crew’s release with FBI officials, according to news reports and U.S. government statements. During these negotiations, at about 1 a.m., gunfire could be heard on board the Quest, U.S. Navy Vice Admiral Mark Fox told reporters.
U.S. forces then approached and boarded the Quest, getting into a skirmish with pirates aboard. All four of the crew – the Adamses of Marina del Rey, Calif., and Phyllis Mackay and Bob Riggle of Seattle – had been shot by their captors, according to a statement from U.S. Central Command. Efforts to revive them were unsuccessful.
Two pirates were killed in the skirmish and 13 were captured and detained, CNN reported.
“In total, it is believed 19 pirates were involved in the hijacking” of the vessel, Central Command said.
No details of the negotiations or whether a ransom had been offered were available.U.S. forces had been monitoring the Quest since it was hijacked Feb. 18. U.S. Central Command said four U.S. Navy warships were involved in the response force.
More yachts attacked
The attack on the S/Y Quest is the latest in a number of attacks on yachts. According to the BBC:
1. South African couple Bruno Pelizzari and Deborah Calitz are still being held in Somalia, four months after their vessel, the S/Y Choizil, was hijacked.
2. Paul and Rachel Chandler were held for nearly 400 days after their yacht was hijacked near the Seychelles in October 2009.
3. French yacht owner Florent Lemacon was killed in April 2009 when French commandos tried to liberate him and four other people from their hijacked yacht, the Tanit, off Somalia. Somalia has had no functioning central government since 1991, allowing piracy to flourish off its coast.
In addition, the German-owned transport ship Beluga Nomination was carrying eight yachts on deck when it was hijacked en route to the Seychelles on Jan. 22. A German newscast of the incident shows photos of the ship and its yacht cargo. At least one is a megayacht. The yachts have since been off-loaded and are believed to remain in the hands of pirates, who may use them for additional attacks.
The international security flotilla’s response to that incident is another cause for question. After reporting their mayday, the crew of 12 locked themselves in the citadel, the secure room onboard where they can be safe and disable the ship. After three days, pirates were able to enter the room and take control of the ship. It remains in pirate hands.
“And we divert four warships from their primary mission of protecting the world’s merchant fleet for a 50-foot sailboat and four Americans?” Dailey asked. “How arrogant can we be? Do you think the Germans got that kind of response? The Brits didn’t.”
The Chandlers, a British couple kidnapped last year from their yacht, the Lynn Rival, were taken ashore in Somalia. British authorities negotiated their release after more than a year for about $1 million, it was reported.
In April 2009, pirates seized the U.S.-flagged Maersk Alabama, leading to a standoff in the Indian Ocean. U.S. forces moved to rescue American Capt. Richard Phillips after seeing a pirate aiming a weapon at his back, officials said at the time. Navy sharpshooters killed three pirates; one was arrested. The Somali man arrested was convicted of acts related to high-seas piracy, and a federal court in New York sentenced him last week to more than 30 years in prison.
As of Feb. 15, pirates were holding 33 vessels and 712 hostages, according to the International Maritime Bureau (IMB).
Piracy hits record
Despite having been prevalent for centuries, piracy in the region reached record numbers in 2010, the fourth straight year of increases. According to the IMB, which tracks such attacks, pirates took a record number of hostages, 1,181, and killed eight mariners.
Somali pirates accounted for 49 of the 53 ships hijacked last year and 1,106 of the kidnappings. A total of 445 attacks on ships were logged by the IMB’s piracy reporting center in Kuala Lumpur, a 10 percent increase over 2009 and the highest figure since the previous peak in 2003.
“These figures for the number of hostages and vessels taken are the highest we have ever seen,” said Capt. Pottengal Mukundan, director of the Malaysia-based Piracy Reporting Centre, which has monitored piracy worldwide since 1991. “As a percentage of global incidents, piracy on the high seas has increased dramatically over armed robbery in territorial waters. On the high seas off Somalia, heavily armed pirates are overpowering ocean-going fishing or merchant vessels to use as a base for further attacks. They capture the crew and force them to sail to within attacking distance of other unsuspecting vessels.”
More than 90 percent of ship seizures occurred off the coast of Somalia. The number of attacks in the Gulf of Aden has dropped sharply due to an international naval presence there, the IMB reported.
“I’ve seen them [pirates] moving farther south, farther east all the way to the Maldives and the Mozambique Channel,” Dailey said.
The problem is area. The entire United States east of the Mississippi River could fit into the Somali basin, Vice Admiral Fox said. Thirty-four warships patrol the region under 15 flags and work well together, he said, but “there’s a lot of places where we are not.”
A few solutions
About 800 miles to the south and east of Somalia, travelers to the Seychelles often pass through the same areas as S/Y Quest. As a yacht management company supporting visiting megayachts to the region, Alastair Maiden of Seal Superyachts Seychelles monitors piracy news.
He recommends vessels take security companies with them when transiting the Indian Ocean, Gulf of Aden and Red Sea areas.
“There are options of armed escorts,” he said. “They have small patrol boats in the area. They have six crew on each vessel and stay with the traveling yacht. Sometimes if smaller or private vessels are cruising together, they can organize a convoy and possibly afford it together.”
Most often, however, boats will use onboard security, he said. As to why S/Y Quest didn’t have security onboard, Maiden thought it might be for financial reasons.
“We had a guy in the marina on a smaller yacht going to the Maldives and, basically on the advice of the port authorities, he had the boat wintered and cancelled the trip,” Maiden said. “That size and speed cannot be protected and typically they don’t have the funds to do so.
“Anything over, say, 50m, there is a risk [of piracy], but if they take precautions and have armed security, I would say it is OK,” Maiden said. “But they must take all precautions, the razor wire, trail lines, all of it.”
Not even that will prevent an attempted attack.
“How do you go in the middle of the ocean and find a 50-foot sailboat?” Dailey asked. “These attacks are well orchestrated and well organized. They knew where they were going, and they got that information from somebody. That’s why I run dark, no AIS. When the AIS is on, I run confusing information before I leave. And I don’t tell the agents in Egypt where I’m going.”
The Marshall Islands shipping registry issued an advisory soon after the killings to advise its yacht and commercial clients to cease transiting the area.
Jon and Sue Hacking, cruisers aboard the 45-foot catamaran Ocelot who have contributed stories about their travels to The Triton since 2004, have spent the past year cruising in the Indian Ocean.
“We have thought about the problem [of piracy] quite a bit, of course, being here in the Indian Ocean,” they wrote in an e-mail to friends the day the Adamses were reported killed. “As we see it, the long-term solution probably involves lots of aid to Somalia as well as helping them establish a working government. But the Somali warlords who currently hold the power are unlikely to relinquish it anytime soon, so we also need a shorter-term solution.
“Shipping companies have no option - they must pay the ransoms - so the solution has to be military,” they wrote. “We don’t like to complain without proposing solutions, so here are a couple of proposals we’ve come up with:
“1. Blockade Somalia. The coastline is 1,600nm if you include Puntland and Somaliland along the north coast. Station ships 50-100nm off the coast (so out of Somalia’s territorial waters), search all ships coming out of Somalia and take away any weapons. No weapons, no piracy.
“The Israel’s have been doing this for years on their own coast, and Australia patrols a much longer coastline. Given Somalia’s sad economic state, not many boats are going to or from Somalia so there shouldn’t be many boats to search.
“If necessary, designate entry and exit paths and let it be known that any boat using different lanes will be attacked. This solution also prevents others from fishing the Somali coast, which has been one of their complaints.
“2. Set up stations in the Indian Ocean and the Red Sea where ships could stop to take on about four Marines. The Marines would need to be allowed to fire on pirates, or at least to return fire. The Marines would ride on and protect the ship for 2-3 days as they transit the pirate areas and then get off to catch another ship going the other way.
“Both the ships and the Marines would love it. About 300 ships/day go through that area. Unfortunately, this wouldn’t help us (unless more stations were setup) and also wouldn’t stop the attempts at piracy (the ransoms are just too great)."
Like the Hackings, the Adamses were long-term cruisers who would rather be aboard their boat than just about anywhere else. Shipping their beloved Quest on a cargo ship to the Mediterranean was not an option for them. Christian missionaries seven years into a round-the-world cruise, they opted instead in favor of sailing a new passage, even without an escort.
“They know the risks,” said Nancy Birnbaum, a freelance journalist and former editor of the Seven Seas Cruising Association newsletter. “Certainly, there are other options,” she said. “Shipping your boat is obviously safer, and it gets your boat where you want it.
“As a cruiser, though, I know it’s just part of it,” she said. “This type of trip is typical of long-term cruisers; that’s just what they do.”
Suspicion breeds confidence
I have nothing but praise for the Russians in the way that they deal with these scum. This may be the mob that they left in a life raft who sadly didn't make it back to their dustbin of a country. If so, I hope the sharks found em tasty.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: US Virgin & British Virgin,Islands
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Somali Pirates
Here is another that just came in........Dockwalk - The Essential Site For Captains And Crew - DockTalk
Something clearly needs to be done....
Something clearly needs to be done....
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glasgow
Age: 61
Posts: 909
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Loerie,
Unfortunately I have not been able to respond to your postings, and I am in somewhat of a rush at the moment. I do apologise. I shall endeavour to respond to some of your comments. My apologies if I pick the easiest points.
1/ Blockade Somalia - not feasible. The number of vessels required would be large. Without enough vessels the blockader could be decoyed away and off the pirates sail. Also many of the boats might be difficult to pick up on radar. Next what about legal fishermen and supplies? National boundaries may also be a problem.
2/ Blockade Somalia - not all pirates come from Somalia
3/ Set up stations in the Indian Ocean and the Red Sea where ships could stop to take on about four Marines. - Nice idea, poorly thought through. I can see lots of issues. Ships sailing in pirate infested waters to get to said Marines. Ships would be coming from all directions. You would be better off boarding Marines at port of departure. Insurance may be void if you have weapons on board.
4/ “The Israel’s have been doing this for years on their own coast, and Australia patrols a much longer coastline. Given Somalia’s sad economic state, not many boats are going to or from Somalia so there shouldn’t be many boats to search." - The sentence "Their own coast" gives it away here. They have humint on shore; they can use their own coastal regions and hinterlands for resources, bases, airfields, ports etc. They can control access to their coastline from land, as well as from sea. Their aircraft have airfields reasonably near by. They are in control of the area. Finally there are more vessels than you might believe.
Finally, finally, I must state again that the area where pirates are operating is big; really big; really, really big. In fact vast. There are just not enough assets to resolve the issue how you might like. Also, travelling distances takes time. Ships are not fast. Ships on patrol that are able to go fast and do, do not stay on patrol as long as they might. Fuel is an issue, as is maintenance of items and hulls and all else that suffers at high speed.
Once again, my apologies for not spending more time on your points. I just do not have the time at the moment.
Hval
Unfortunately I have not been able to respond to your postings, and I am in somewhat of a rush at the moment. I do apologise. I shall endeavour to respond to some of your comments. My apologies if I pick the easiest points.
1/ Blockade Somalia - not feasible. The number of vessels required would be large. Without enough vessels the blockader could be decoyed away and off the pirates sail. Also many of the boats might be difficult to pick up on radar. Next what about legal fishermen and supplies? National boundaries may also be a problem.
2/ Blockade Somalia - not all pirates come from Somalia
3/ Set up stations in the Indian Ocean and the Red Sea where ships could stop to take on about four Marines. - Nice idea, poorly thought through. I can see lots of issues. Ships sailing in pirate infested waters to get to said Marines. Ships would be coming from all directions. You would be better off boarding Marines at port of departure. Insurance may be void if you have weapons on board.
4/ “The Israel’s have been doing this for years on their own coast, and Australia patrols a much longer coastline. Given Somalia’s sad economic state, not many boats are going to or from Somalia so there shouldn’t be many boats to search." - The sentence "Their own coast" gives it away here. They have humint on shore; they can use their own coastal regions and hinterlands for resources, bases, airfields, ports etc. They can control access to their coastline from land, as well as from sea. Their aircraft have airfields reasonably near by. They are in control of the area. Finally there are more vessels than you might believe.
Finally, finally, I must state again that the area where pirates are operating is big; really big; really, really big. In fact vast. There are just not enough assets to resolve the issue how you might like. Also, travelling distances takes time. Ships are not fast. Ships on patrol that are able to go fast and do, do not stay on patrol as long as they might. Fuel is an issue, as is maintenance of items and hulls and all else that suffers at high speed.
Once again, my apologies for not spending more time on your points. I just do not have the time at the moment.
Hval
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hval is correct; the area covered by the pirates is vast and growing almost daily - in that the pirates are prepared to travel further in search of 'targets'.
Whilst the Russians deal with pirates in what might be described as a 19th century approach - and very effectively too in terms of the fact that fewer Russian merchant ships seem to have been targetted in recent months - navies have no legal powers other than returning captured pirates back to their homes! A ludicrous situation even if the pirates kit is sent to the bottom. And I always thought/believed that piracy on the high seas was illegal under the terms of international maritime law...
NATO, et al, needs to consider the introduction of convoys. With the number of warships from different countries patrolling the area there should be sufficient warships. The problems, as in the early days of WWII convoy organisation, will be with the merchant navy captains and the ships owners.
Whilst the Russians deal with pirates in what might be described as a 19th century approach - and very effectively too in terms of the fact that fewer Russian merchant ships seem to have been targetted in recent months - navies have no legal powers other than returning captured pirates back to their homes! A ludicrous situation even if the pirates kit is sent to the bottom. And I always thought/believed that piracy on the high seas was illegal under the terms of international maritime law...
NATO, et al, needs to consider the introduction of convoys. With the number of warships from different countries patrolling the area there should be sufficient warships. The problems, as in the early days of WWII convoy organisation, will be with the merchant navy captains and the ships owners.
Last edited by TSR2Eagle; 2nd Mar 2011 at 18:31. Reason: Spelling!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: by the Great Salt Lake, USA
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NATO has been running convoys through the area for years... they haven't been getting a lot of press because they haven't been that effective... ships have been taken by pirates from convoys!
Additionally, the operations are far more sophisticated than just a bunch of fishermen taking along some guns.
Unfortunately, the link no longer works, but I'm sure some Googling will find something more:
This entry didn't have a link:
These two were from two of the long-running discussion & news threads on Somali piracy on the Warships1 board:
EU/NATO antipirate fleet now fighting pirates
Somalia pirates
Checking locations of the incidents over time shows a steady movement of the incidents from the Gulf of Aden to the south and east, out into the larger ocean off the African coast.
This is after the ships separate onto many different courses, for many different destinations, making continues convoy operations very difficult to do.
Oh, as for the other... here is a May 2009 report on that:
Somali pirates guided by London intelligence team, report says | World news | guardian.co.uk
Additionally, the operations are far more sophisticated than just a bunch of fishermen taking along some guns.
Unfortunately, the link no longer works, but I'm sure some Googling will find something more:
On call Convoy requests on the rise
Justin Stares Brussels - Tuesday 4 November 2008
THE European Union anti-piracy cell is already receiving five requests a day from ships looking for protection from pirates in the Gulf of Aden, writes Justin Stares in Brussels.
Shipowners were initially reluctant to join the Brussels convoys but have since changed their mind, said piracy cell chief Andres Breijo.
The convoys, led by two French frigates and overseen by a Spanish reconnaissance aircraft, began offering transits to commercial shipping last month and have already been swamped by requests.
"Shipowners did not initially welcome the service because it meant adjusting their schedules and waiting for the warships to depart," said Cap Breijo, right. "This costs money. "But since then they have changed their minds and we are now receiving five protection requests a day."
The demand has created "asset problems" for the EU because the two frigates can only "fully" protect two ships each. Given the fortnightly sailings in each direction across the gulf, this is wholly inadequate for the 300 ships, which are in the gulf on any given day, Capt Breijo said.
But frequencies will be improved once the EU's first armada arrives in the region in December. Separate and complementary Nato forces are also expected to take part in the convoy operation and a Russian vessel is also co-ordinating with the EU operations, Capt Breijo said.
While a frigate can only fully protect two ships, other vessels are reported to have tagged along. The French frigates have already seen off several attacks, said the EU chief, without giving details. "Other ships can stay close," he said. "It can be a deterrent. It is better than being on the outside [of the convoy]."
Ten nations have pledged support for the EU's first joint naval operation, scheduled to last a year. EC Audiovisual Library
http://www.lloydslist.com...n-call-...d=1225729774221
Justin Stares Brussels - Tuesday 4 November 2008
THE European Union anti-piracy cell is already receiving five requests a day from ships looking for protection from pirates in the Gulf of Aden, writes Justin Stares in Brussels.
Shipowners were initially reluctant to join the Brussels convoys but have since changed their mind, said piracy cell chief Andres Breijo.
The convoys, led by two French frigates and overseen by a Spanish reconnaissance aircraft, began offering transits to commercial shipping last month and have already been swamped by requests.
"Shipowners did not initially welcome the service because it meant adjusting their schedules and waiting for the warships to depart," said Cap Breijo, right. "This costs money. "But since then they have changed their minds and we are now receiving five protection requests a day."
The demand has created "asset problems" for the EU because the two frigates can only "fully" protect two ships each. Given the fortnightly sailings in each direction across the gulf, this is wholly inadequate for the 300 ships, which are in the gulf on any given day, Capt Breijo said.
But frequencies will be improved once the EU's first armada arrives in the region in December. Separate and complementary Nato forces are also expected to take part in the convoy operation and a Russian vessel is also co-ordinating with the EU operations, Capt Breijo said.
While a frigate can only fully protect two ships, other vessels are reported to have tagged along. The French frigates have already seen off several attacks, said the EU chief, without giving details. "Other ships can stay close," he said. "It can be a deterrent. It is better than being on the outside [of the convoy]."
Ten nations have pledged support for the EU's first joint naval operation, scheduled to last a year. EC Audiovisual Library
http://www.lloydslist.com...n-call-...d=1225729774221
This entry didn't have a link:
Fairplay 6 May 2009 Pirates seize escorted ship
A GERMAN-owned ship with 11 crew members has been seized by pirates from within a warship-escorted convoy in the Gulf of Aden transit corridor, EU naval forces reported today.
"The vessel ... was sailing within the transit corridor and was picked out of a group transit within only a few minutes," an official statement from EU NAVFOR said.
"A helicopter from the closest warship was too late to prevent the ship from being hijacked," the statement continued, adding that the crew was believed to be unhurt.
Victoria - a 10,500dwt general cargo vessel flagged in Antigua & Barbuda that is owned and managed by Haren of the German group Intersee - was taken yesterday afternoon about 120 n-miles north of the Somali port of Boosaaso, EU anti-piracy officials told Bloomberg.
Lieutenant Nate Christensen, spokesman for the Bahrain-based US Fifth Fleet, told the Associated Press that the entire crew is Romanian. An Intersee executive confirmed the attack today and told Bloomberg the vessel was carrying 10,000 tonnes of rice to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
A GERMAN-owned ship with 11 crew members has been seized by pirates from within a warship-escorted convoy in the Gulf of Aden transit corridor, EU naval forces reported today.
"The vessel ... was sailing within the transit corridor and was picked out of a group transit within only a few minutes," an official statement from EU NAVFOR said.
"A helicopter from the closest warship was too late to prevent the ship from being hijacked," the statement continued, adding that the crew was believed to be unhurt.
Victoria - a 10,500dwt general cargo vessel flagged in Antigua & Barbuda that is owned and managed by Haren of the German group Intersee - was taken yesterday afternoon about 120 n-miles north of the Somali port of Boosaaso, EU anti-piracy officials told Bloomberg.
Lieutenant Nate Christensen, spokesman for the Bahrain-based US Fifth Fleet, told the Associated Press that the entire crew is Romanian. An Intersee executive confirmed the attack today and told Bloomberg the vessel was carrying 10,000 tonnes of rice to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
EU/NATO antipirate fleet now fighting pirates
Somalia pirates
Checking locations of the incidents over time shows a steady movement of the incidents from the Gulf of Aden to the south and east, out into the larger ocean off the African coast.
This is after the ships separate onto many different courses, for many different destinations, making continues convoy operations very difficult to do.
Oh, as for the other... here is a May 2009 report on that:
Somali pirates guided by London intelligence team, report says | World news | guardian.co.uk
Somali pirates guided by London intelligence team, report says
Document obtained by Spanish radio station says 'well-placed informers' in constant contact by satellite telephone.
Giles Tremlett in Madrid
Monday 11 May 2009 12.59 BST
Quote
The Somali pirates attacking shipping in the Gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean are directed to their targets by a "consultant" team in London, according to a European military intelligence document obtained by a Spanish radio station.
The document, obtained by Cadena SER radio, says the team and the pirates remain in contact by satellite telephone.
It says that pirate groups have "well-placed informers" in London who are in regular contact with control centres in Somalia where decisions on which vessels to attack are made. These London-based "consultants" help the pirates select targets, providing information on the ships' cargoes and courses.
In at least one case the pirates have remained in contact with their London informants from the hijacked ship, according to one targeted shipping company.
The pirates' information network extends to Yemen, Dubai and the Suez canal.
Document obtained by Spanish radio station says 'well-placed informers' in constant contact by satellite telephone.
Giles Tremlett in Madrid
Monday 11 May 2009 12.59 BST
Quote
The Somali pirates attacking shipping in the Gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean are directed to their targets by a "consultant" team in London, according to a European military intelligence document obtained by a Spanish radio station.
The document, obtained by Cadena SER radio, says the team and the pirates remain in contact by satellite telephone.
It says that pirate groups have "well-placed informers" in London who are in regular contact with control centres in Somalia where decisions on which vessels to attack are made. These London-based "consultants" help the pirates select targets, providing information on the ships' cargoes and courses.
In at least one case the pirates have remained in contact with their London informants from the hijacked ship, according to one targeted shipping company.
The pirates' information network extends to Yemen, Dubai and the Suez canal.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GreenLight121 wrote;
NATO has been running convoys through the area for years... they haven't been getting a lot of press because they haven't been that effective... ships have been taken by pirates from convoys!
NATO has been running convoys through the area for years... they haven't been getting a lot of press because they haven't been that effective... ships have been taken by pirates from convoys!
Assuming you are correct, I very doubt they are on the same basis as convoys were organised during 1941/42. They certainly are not systematic.
As for the popular press, success stories have never been 'good' news! The more negative the story is, the greater the press appeal.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've had a look through the Warships1 board and from what I've read there's no comparison with what's being done to protect ships from Somali pirates, and others, with the very tight convoy system used during WWII. I note too that the French option is to offer what is referred to as Close Support Protection - having marines on board merchant ships. This suggests to me that the convoy system, such as it is, is not as tightly organised as I would expect. Probably the word 'convoy' is being used very loosely in the Gulf and Indian Ocean, etc.
