Wikileaks-gawd bless
Minor detail, regarding the first kill. On 20th September 1939, during a reconnaissance patrol over the enemy's front lines, a Fairey Battle from No. 88 Squadron shot down a Bf.109. The person actually responsible for this "kill" was Sergeant F Letchford, an air observer; he was flying in an aircraft piloted by Flying Officer LH Baker.
The Lockheed Hudson kill was the first German aircraft destroyed by a Royal Air Force aircraft operating from Britain.
Arrakis
The Lockheed Hudson kill was the first German aircraft destroyed by a Royal Air Force aircraft operating from Britain.
Arrakis
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GreenKnight 121 wrote:-
Yes, those 10% charges were only for what you decided to keep.
Anything returned or destroyed was not charged at all!
Yes, we were so interested in profiting at Britain's expense, weren't we... we produced all those ships, aircraft, tanks, etc AT OUR OWN EXPENSE, and let you use them free of charge.
Then we only charged you for what you kept after it was all over.
Such greedy barstewards we are.
Yes, those 10% charges were only for what you decided to keep.
Anything returned or destroyed was not charged at all!
Yes, we were so interested in profiting at Britain's expense, weren't we... we produced all those ships, aircraft, tanks, etc AT OUR OWN EXPENSE, and let you use them free of charge.
Then we only charged you for what you kept after it was all over.
Such greedy barstewards we are.
This is where you sell materials and equipment to a third party to fight for your best interests, basically its like renting a hosepipe to your neighbour when his house is on fire, and then telling the street that your a top bloke for saving your neighbours house and he couldn't have done it without you and it was really cheap to rent it etc etc...
"Before Lend-Lease aid could begin, Britain was forced to sell all her commercial assets in the United States at a knocked down rate and turn over all her gold reserves. US president Franklin D. Roosevelt sent his own ship the Quincy, to Simonstown near Cape Town to pick up the last $50 million in British gold reserves."
Under this new agreement with the American Government, Britain was forced to not export any articles which contained Lend-Lease material or to export any goods—even if British-made—which were similar to Lend-Lease goods. The American Government sent officials to Britain to police these requirements. By 1944 British exports had gone down to 31% to the advantage of the US. Lend-Lease created problems in reviving Britain's exports after the war
Lend Lease is not as rosey a picture as many in the US paint.
Cheers
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Just to clarify the Lend-Lease. Up until 11 March 1941 when it was signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt (18 months after the war had started) Britain paid cold hard cash, as did the USSR. When the British began running short of money, arms and other supplies, Prime Minister Winston Churchill pressured President Franklin D. Roosevelt for American help. Sympathetic to the British plight but hampered by the Neutrality Acts, which forbade arms sales on credit or the loaning of money to belligerent nations, Roosevelt eventually came up with the idea of “Lend-Lease.” As one Roosevelt biographer has characterized it: "If there was no practical alternative, there was certainly no moral one either. Britain and the Commonwealth were carrying the battle for all civilization, and the overwhelming majority of Americans, led in the late election by their president, wished to help them." As the President himself put it, “There can be no reasoning with incendiary bombs.”
The American position was to help the British but not enter the war. In early February 1941 a Gallup poll revealed that 54 percent of Americans were unqualifiedly in favor of Lend-Lease. A further 15 percent were in favor with qualifications such as: "If it doesn't get us into war," or "If the British can give us some security for what we give them." Only 22 percent were unqualifiedly against the President's proposal. When poll participants were asked their party affiliation, the poll revealed a sharp political divide: 69 percent of Democrats were unqualifiedly in favor of Lend-Lease, whereas only 38 percent of Republicans favored the bill without qualification. A poll spokesperson also noted that, "approximately twice as many Republicans" gave "qualfied answers as...Democrats."
There was reverse Lend-Lease also. British supply of Spitfires and Mosquitos to the US being but two examples. At one point the value of New Zealands aid to the US (food) exceeded what the country was receiving in war materials.
The American position was to help the British but not enter the war. In early February 1941 a Gallup poll revealed that 54 percent of Americans were unqualifiedly in favor of Lend-Lease. A further 15 percent were in favor with qualifications such as: "If it doesn't get us into war," or "If the British can give us some security for what we give them." Only 22 percent were unqualifiedly against the President's proposal. When poll participants were asked their party affiliation, the poll revealed a sharp political divide: 69 percent of Democrats were unqualifiedly in favor of Lend-Lease, whereas only 38 percent of Republicans favored the bill without qualification. A poll spokesperson also noted that, "approximately twice as many Republicans" gave "qualfied answers as...Democrats."
There was reverse Lend-Lease also. British supply of Spitfires and Mosquitos to the US being but two examples. At one point the value of New Zealands aid to the US (food) exceeded what the country was receiving in war materials.
Last edited by Brian Abraham; 8th Feb 2011 at 02:06.
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Arrakis
Thanks for that - the Battle was K 9243 of 88 Sqn.
On 14th May 1940 71 Battles of Nos 12, 103, 105, 150 and 218 Sqns attacked the German pontoon bridges at Sedan - 40 aircraft were lost.
Thanks for that - the Battle was K 9243 of 88 Sqn.
On 14th May 1940 71 Battles of Nos 12, 103, 105, 150 and 218 Sqns attacked the German pontoon bridges at Sedan - 40 aircraft were lost.
Cazatou
Hi,back in the 80's we used to have a lovely old boy,provided you didn't sit on his seat at the bar, in our local in Dorset called Douglas Wilson.
Douglas had been a Sgt Pilot on Battles at the outbreak of war.By great good fortune he was back in Blighty on a course when the Blitzkrieg started. Most of his mates were killed. He went on to fly through-out the war ,finishing on Max Aitken's strike wing at Banff flying Beaufighters & Mosquitos (?) with such as Foxley-Norris,whom he referred to as Chris.
Douglas stayed for the full career finishing as Grp Capt in '71. Typical of the man he did not let on to his wife when diagnosed with cancer in his 80s.
Douglas had been a Sgt Pilot on Battles at the outbreak of war.By great good fortune he was back in Blighty on a course when the Blitzkrieg started. Most of his mates were killed. He went on to fly through-out the war ,finishing on Max Aitken's strike wing at Banff flying Beaufighters & Mosquitos (?) with such as Foxley-Norris,whom he referred to as Chris.
Douglas stayed for the full career finishing as Grp Capt in '71. Typical of the man he did not let on to his wife when diagnosed with cancer in his 80s.
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Sovereign Commonwealth Nations: since the 1905-08 period, the "old" Nations have been Dominions, entirely sovereign. They chose a system where the Head of Govt. is elected, the Head of State appointed, and chose to appoint the person who is concurrently Head of State of UK, exercising his/her very limited authority through a local representative, the Governor-General. In recent years that has been a citizen of repute (the UK phrase is one of the great and the good). Of the "old" Commonwealth before 1947 only Newfoundland was in any way subordinate to London. It is incorrect to suggest that since 190X have, say, Canada, Oz, NZ, been "ruled" by anybody not elected by their citizens.
US Declarations, 1917, 1941: a democracy needs a "casus belli" recognised by most of its citizens, who will be doing the paying and dying. UK, amongst many others, is very lucky that the Kaiser and the Fuhrer pulled those triggers.
Lend/Lease: cash money from UK/France/Belgium, 1938- (UK: March,1941). Then the system of deferred settlement. Quite properly that had various constraints. It was settled in 1946 on a net basis, taking account of "Reverse". If I had been German in March,1941, I would have seen the Lend/Lease Act as a casus belli.
US Declarations, 1917, 1941: a democracy needs a "casus belli" recognised by most of its citizens, who will be doing the paying and dying. UK, amongst many others, is very lucky that the Kaiser and the Fuhrer pulled those triggers.
Lend/Lease: cash money from UK/France/Belgium, 1938- (UK: March,1941). Then the system of deferred settlement. Quite properly that had various constraints. It was settled in 1946 on a net basis, taking account of "Reverse". If I had been German in March,1941, I would have seen the Lend/Lease Act as a casus belli.
