RAF Leuchars
Has anyone seen.....
a report on the Milspotters website says that RAF Marham will stay open. This means that either Leuchars or lossiemouth will be closed. The report quotes a meeting between local action groups and a Government minister, which allegedly took place yesterday
The full item, courtesy of Mil Spotters Forum, and Lowestoft Aviaition Society is here:
Minister of State for the Armed Forces - Nick Harvey M.P. has announced that
RAF Marham is 'safe' from closure and that one of two RAF stations in
Scotland will close. This has caused fury and embarrassment at the Ministry
of Defence, as this should not have been revealed in this way and should
have been announced to the House of Commons by the Secretary of State for
Defence later in 2011.
See below the story from David Ross, Highland Correspondent of The Herald -
Scotland newspaper.
28 January 2011
*Scotland’s RAF bases at Leuchars and Lossiemouth appear to be in a straight
fight with each other for survival after the Government said it would be too
expensive to shut a base in Norfolk.*
The news the bases were fearing emerged yesterday when Armed Forces Minister
Nick Harvey met representatives of the Moray Taskforce, which is fighting to
save RAF Lossiemouth and minimise the impact of the closure of RAF Kinloss.
Both RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Marham in Norfolk are home to Tornado
squadrons, and it had been thought that one would close. However, the
Government had previously said that no decision had been taken.
Six members of the task force met with the minister at RAF Kinloss and
emerged dejected, saying he had confirmed that RAF Marham had been saved.
However, a final decision on whether Lossiemouth or RAF Leuchars in Fife
will survive is not likely to be announced until the summer.
Calum MacPherson, the taskforce’s spokesman, said: “We understand that RAF
Marham is now safe. It is now between Leuchars and Lossiemouth. We were told
it would be too expensive to relocate RAF Marham.”
He said that they were also extremely disappointed that it was highly
unlikely any decision would be taken before “Purdah” started in the run in
to the Scottish elections.
“That could mean we don’t get a decision until mid-July,” he said. If that
was the case it would extend the uncertainty hanging over Moray where
one-in-five jobs is supported by the two RAF bases.
However, on Marham Mr Harvey said: “I think they are overstating what I
said. I simply made the point that the costs of relocating the RAF out of
Marham would be very high and first and foremost the purpose of this whole
exercise is to try and achieve financial savings. We will await the verdict
of the RAF investment appraisal, which we haven’t yet seen yet.”
However, when The Herald talked to the taskforce again, all six members were
adamant the minister had said it was now between Leuchars and Lossiemouth.
Meanwhile, the minister also confirmed that the target date for closing the
runway at RAF Kinloss was August 1. One of the first things to go will be
air traffic control.
Responding to criticism from six former defence chiefs that the scrapping of
the Nimrod programme, which heralded the closure of Kinloss, would leave
gaps in our defences, Mr Harvey said: “There is a gap. Nobody has pretended
any different.”
But he said the Government had to tackle the country’s deficit and that
axing the Nimrod had been the most uncomfortable decision.
He said: “It was one of the options and, it was decided this was an area
where we were willing to take risks over the next few years.
“One respects the view of the retired military chiefs but the decisions are
taken by ministers now on the basis of the current military advice.”
When asked if the decision would affect the UK’s ability to monitor Russian
submarines, Mr Harvey said: “The Russian submarine activity in the North Sea
remains quite busy. I am not going to say any more than that. The Russians
have their sub-marines but the Cold War ended 20 years ago.”
--
The full item, courtesy of Mil Spotters Forum, and Lowestoft Aviaition Society is here:
Minister of State for the Armed Forces - Nick Harvey M.P. has announced that
RAF Marham is 'safe' from closure and that one of two RAF stations in
Scotland will close. This has caused fury and embarrassment at the Ministry
of Defence, as this should not have been revealed in this way and should
have been announced to the House of Commons by the Secretary of State for
Defence later in 2011.
See below the story from David Ross, Highland Correspondent of The Herald -
Scotland newspaper.
28 January 2011
*Scotland’s RAF bases at Leuchars and Lossiemouth appear to be in a straight
fight with each other for survival after the Government said it would be too
expensive to shut a base in Norfolk.*
The news the bases were fearing emerged yesterday when Armed Forces Minister
Nick Harvey met representatives of the Moray Taskforce, which is fighting to
save RAF Lossiemouth and minimise the impact of the closure of RAF Kinloss.
Both RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Marham in Norfolk are home to Tornado
squadrons, and it had been thought that one would close. However, the
Government had previously said that no decision had been taken.
Six members of the task force met with the minister at RAF Kinloss and
emerged dejected, saying he had confirmed that RAF Marham had been saved.
However, a final decision on whether Lossiemouth or RAF Leuchars in Fife
will survive is not likely to be announced until the summer.
Calum MacPherson, the taskforce’s spokesman, said: “We understand that RAF
Marham is now safe. It is now between Leuchars and Lossiemouth. We were told
it would be too expensive to relocate RAF Marham.”
He said that they were also extremely disappointed that it was highly
unlikely any decision would be taken before “Purdah” started in the run in
to the Scottish elections.
“That could mean we don’t get a decision until mid-July,” he said. If that
was the case it would extend the uncertainty hanging over Moray where
one-in-five jobs is supported by the two RAF bases.
However, on Marham Mr Harvey said: “I think they are overstating what I
said. I simply made the point that the costs of relocating the RAF out of
Marham would be very high and first and foremost the purpose of this whole
exercise is to try and achieve financial savings. We will await the verdict
of the RAF investment appraisal, which we haven’t yet seen yet.”
However, when The Herald talked to the taskforce again, all six members were
adamant the minister had said it was now between Leuchars and Lossiemouth.
Meanwhile, the minister also confirmed that the target date for closing the
runway at RAF Kinloss was August 1. One of the first things to go will be
air traffic control.
Responding to criticism from six former defence chiefs that the scrapping of
the Nimrod programme, which heralded the closure of Kinloss, would leave
gaps in our defences, Mr Harvey said: “There is a gap. Nobody has pretended
any different.”
But he said the Government had to tackle the country’s deficit and that
axing the Nimrod had been the most uncomfortable decision.
He said: “It was one of the options and, it was decided this was an area
where we were willing to take risks over the next few years.
“One respects the view of the retired military chiefs but the decisions are
taken by ministers now on the basis of the current military advice.”
When asked if the decision would affect the UK’s ability to monitor Russian
submarines, Mr Harvey said: “The Russian submarine activity in the North Sea
remains quite busy. I am not going to say any more than that. The Russians
have their sub-marines but the Cold War ended 20 years ago.”
--
Last edited by bobward; 28th Jan 2011 at 12:29. Reason: REport adderd.
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Nobody in Scotland ever suggested closing Marham to save Lossie! As long as Tornado is in service Marham is essential. Question will be in what numbers and its that which will finally decide Lossie's future.
However, with the F3 about to leave service, Leuchars future is dicey. It would be just as easy to relocate Typhoon further north or in the current climate not at all concentrating on Conningsby.
As for the Scottish Elections, a bit of a red herring as Defence is a matter reserved for Westminster. So take the bl**dy decision and stop the flaffing!
However, with the F3 about to leave service, Leuchars future is dicey. It would be just as easy to relocate Typhoon further north or in the current climate not at all concentrating on Conningsby.
As for the Scottish Elections, a bit of a red herring as Defence is a matter reserved for Westminster. So take the bl**dy decision and stop the flaffing!
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Lossie Future........Looking bleak
Before all the locals, and politicians, in the Marham area get too smug, just remember that it will close in turn shortly after the GR4 finally goes out of service......
Before all the locals, and politicians, in the Marham area get too smug, just remember that it will close in turn shortly after the GR4 finally goes out of service......
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Writing on the Wall for RAF Leuchars
Last edited by ATFQ; 5th Jun 2016 at 07:17.
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Biggus
Having served at Leuchars and Lossie in ATC and now living a couple of air miles from Marham, I've thoroughly enjoyed reading all the posts re closures over the past few months. Highly entertaining! It hadn't occurred to me, of course, that the GR4 might go out of service - it seems to have been thundering over the house for donkey's years. I think I'll have to change my contact name to Marham Smuggie!
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Last Ditch Attempt to Save Leuchars
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ATFQ, yes QRA was carried out from Lossie last year, but as you pointed out the runway was being resurfaced so would have been very hard to carry out from Leuchars. So it was carried out from Lossie but that does not mean that it is the best place to carry it out from when all options are available. Lossie does have two runways, does that mean you can use them simultaneously ? Leuchars does have a second runway, it may be a short one and in need of some tlc but it can accomodate F3's. Equal to One Sqn's flying at the moment ?? So 6 and 111 are equal to 1 Sqn now ?? mmm. I am sorry but economic must come a second to tactical decisions we are not a business we are a military force (alledgedly) and are located to carry out specific tasks in the best locations possible. Most have an element of leeway over location but QRA i.e. defence of the UK must be in the best tactical location possible. Any amount of delay to intercept times increases the risk of mission failure so cannot be tolerated. Hopefully the common sense decision will be that both camps are needed, as both have valid reasons why they are there and cannot do each others tasks as well as the other. So please lets stop this bickering and get on doing what we do best and prove to the numpty's in the government that we are all indispensible.
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FlamingFirebird,
Are you kidding? Have you missed the news from 19 Oct till the present?? Nimrod MRA4. RAF Kinloss. I think you must be kidding, or a member of niaive.com......
Are you kidding? Have you missed the news from 19 Oct till the present?? Nimrod MRA4. RAF Kinloss. I think you must be kidding, or a member of niaive.com......
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Betty, I have been right in the middle of the aformentioned incident so no I have not missed anything. Niave ? Yes maybe but I prefer to be a optimist. Foolish I know but thats how I swing
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Runway 04/22 is called "The Short" and has no lights.................. and is only for day vfr use by light aircraft.
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Just my opinion as a recent pessimist convert:
Errmmmm..can't help but feel whichever base goes or stays the decision will be mostly an economic one rather than one based on strategy (sorry, pretty obvious I guess). The Tories have a rich and infamous history of cutting the armed forces - Sir John Knott, anyone? Mind you, so have most governments since WWII.
Read the post about the RAF having just 6 fj sqns
by 2020 and that the GR4 force reduction has yet to be decided in the SDSR. I think PR11 will see the GR4 sliced quite a bit as the door has been left wide open for that in the SDSR - I also can't see the Tories slowly phasing out all the GR4 force between say 2015 and 2020 as they wouldn't save anything, but rather cut a big chunk from the GR4 force soon'ish. I believe the arguments with capability gaps, "we are at breaking point" and "we wont be able to fight another war" will have little effect as seen with the nimrod, harrier and carriers decisions - anyway, I'm sure this government (and the next) will be hell bent on not having anything to do with any type of conventional war due to their mega ££££ and trying to justify it when British lives are being lost. I feel we are heading towards a more French or German approach to any future conflicts, rather than being dragged around on a lead by the US.
So, if they did decide to cut a large slice from GR4 force soon, then I guess Lossie might look vulnerable. Whatever decision the government makes I really can't see it splitting them at all, as defence with the majority of Joe public doesn't really factor into their everyday lives as opposed to job losses, higher taxes, inflation, weak economy, hospitals blah, blah, blah. If hundreds of thousands protested in London about defence cuts, and future planning round defence cuts, then probably the story would be different.
Seems more of a GCHQ battleground today, anyway.
Errmmmm..can't help but feel whichever base goes or stays the decision will be mostly an economic one rather than one based on strategy (sorry, pretty obvious I guess). The Tories have a rich and infamous history of cutting the armed forces - Sir John Knott, anyone? Mind you, so have most governments since WWII.
Read the post about the RAF having just 6 fj sqns
by 2020 and that the GR4 force reduction has yet to be decided in the SDSR. I think PR11 will see the GR4 sliced quite a bit as the door has been left wide open for that in the SDSR - I also can't see the Tories slowly phasing out all the GR4 force between say 2015 and 2020 as they wouldn't save anything, but rather cut a big chunk from the GR4 force soon'ish. I believe the arguments with capability gaps, "we are at breaking point" and "we wont be able to fight another war" will have little effect as seen with the nimrod, harrier and carriers decisions - anyway, I'm sure this government (and the next) will be hell bent on not having anything to do with any type of conventional war due to their mega ££££ and trying to justify it when British lives are being lost. I feel we are heading towards a more French or German approach to any future conflicts, rather than being dragged around on a lead by the US. So, if they did decide to cut a large slice from GR4 force soon, then I guess Lossie might look vulnerable. Whatever decision the government makes I really can't see it splitting them at all, as defence with the majority of Joe public doesn't really factor into their everyday lives as opposed to job losses, higher taxes, inflation, weak economy, hospitals blah, blah, blah. If hundreds of thousands protested in London about defence cuts, and future planning round defence cuts, then probably the story would be different.
Seems more of a GCHQ battleground today, anyway.
Last edited by casino335; 4th Feb 2011 at 19:12.
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British Army to Take Over RAF Leuchars
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If they put the AAC Regt at Gutersloh to EGQL as well it will at least help to keep it as a viable military airfield and maybe prevent the runway from looking like the main at (ex) RAF Catterick! (Isn't there a railway at Leuchars too? And not a million miles from the docks either. Beggining to sound like PRB-on-Sea - Loggytown, anyone?!)
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GF,
There is a station at Leuchars, and there are still transfer sidings in situ (rather overgrown) but the actual link into the base itself went in the 70s/80s (sure someone will know definitively), and though it could be reinstated, the gym is in the way for the old route to be reinstated. Not difficult though to find another way if you wanted to, though it would probably go round the end of the OR married patch and in over what is now VAS.
S41
(Isn't there a railway at Leuchars too? And not a million miles from the docks either. Beggining to sound like PRB-on-Sea - Loggytown, anyone?!)
S41