F-22 Raptor missing in Alaska - search underway . . .
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Looks like "no joy".
Air Force: Evidence points to F-22 pilot's death - KansasCity.com
Air Force: Evidence points to F-22 pilot's death - KansasCity.com
Air Force: Evidence points to F-22 pilot's death
By RACHEL D'ORO Associated Press
Evidence found at the remote, rugged Alaska site where an F-22 Raptor crashed indicates the pilot died, an Air Force official said Friday evening.
Evidence found at the remote, rugged Alaska site where an F-22 Raptor crashed indicates the pilot died, an Air Force official said Friday evening.
Part of the fighter jet's ejection seat was found at the site, which means Capt. Jeffrey Haney of Clarklake, Mich., was not ejected and could not have survived the Tuesday night crash, Col. Jack McMullen said.
"If the pilot was able to eject, the seat would go with him," McMullen said. Also, an emergency locator transmitter would have been activated if the pilot had ejected and it was not.
Also found were pieces of the flight suit Haney had been wearing.
No body or remains have been found at the site, which McMullen described as a wet area. He said the impact of the crash caused a large crater that swallowed up much of the jet. Recovery efforts are expected to last several weeks, given the challenges of removing the wreckage. McMullen said the effort involves about 130 personnel in temperatures that plunge to 20 below at night.
"If the pilot was able to eject, the seat would go with him," McMullen said. Also, an emergency locator transmitter would have been activated if the pilot had ejected and it was not.
Also found were pieces of the flight suit Haney had been wearing.
No body or remains have been found at the site, which McMullen described as a wet area. He said the impact of the crash caused a large crater that swallowed up much of the jet. Recovery efforts are expected to last several weeks, given the challenges of removing the wreckage. McMullen said the effort involves about 130 personnel in temperatures that plunge to 20 below at night.
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Sad news indeed.
What a shame that while this man was paying the ultimate price, armchair pundits were speculating about defection. I have never been aircrew, but am aghast at some of the posts in this thread.
R.I.P.
What a shame that while this man was paying the ultimate price, armchair pundits were speculating about defection. I have never been aircrew, but am aghast at some of the posts in this thread.
R.I.P.
Looks like the USAF have given up any hope of finding the pilot alive:
Pilot confirmed killed in Alaska fighter jet crash | Reuters
I know it sounds awful, but if the pilot didn't eject and passed away either prior or subsequent to crashing, what are the chances of animals getting to the body? Are there wolves in that part of the world? Seems very strange that there is no body but fragments of flight suit.
Pilot confirmed killed in Alaska fighter jet crash
Air Force fighter jet missing in Alaska
Nov 17, 2010
By Yereth Rosen
ANCHORAGE | Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:23am GMT
(Reuters) - The Air Force confirmed on Friday that the pilot of a fighter jet that crashed in Alaska earlier this week during a nighttime training mission perished in the accident.
Air Force officials initially had held out hope that the pilot of the F-22 Raptor, Captain Jeffrey Haney, might have ejected from the plane and survived Tuesday night's crash.
"Based on evidence recovered from the crash site, and after two days of extensive aerial and ground search efforts, we know that Captain Haney did not eject from the aircraft prior to impact," Colonel Jack McMullen, commander of the Air Force 3rd Wing at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, said in a statement.
Search teams at the wreckage site, about 100 miles north of Anchorage, found part of Haney's ejection seat and several items the pilot wore during the flight, McMullen said.
"Sadly, we can no longer consider this a search and rescue operation but must now focus on recovery operations," he said.
At a news conference, McMullen said the crash left a hole in the earth, and that most of what remains of the aircraft is below ground level. An aerial photo of the crash site showed a fairly round crater in the forest, surrounded by blackened trees.
Radar contact with Haney's aircraft was lost as the jet and another plane were returning to their home base at Elmendorf. The wreckage was spotted the next morning by an Alaska National Guard helicopter crew.
The Raptor, a single-seat, twin-engine fighter built by Lockheed Martin, is equipped with stealth technology.
(Writing by Steve Gorman; Editing by Peter Bohan)
Air Force fighter jet missing in Alaska
Nov 17, 2010
By Yereth Rosen
ANCHORAGE | Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:23am GMT
(Reuters) - The Air Force confirmed on Friday that the pilot of a fighter jet that crashed in Alaska earlier this week during a nighttime training mission perished in the accident.
Air Force officials initially had held out hope that the pilot of the F-22 Raptor, Captain Jeffrey Haney, might have ejected from the plane and survived Tuesday night's crash.
"Based on evidence recovered from the crash site, and after two days of extensive aerial and ground search efforts, we know that Captain Haney did not eject from the aircraft prior to impact," Colonel Jack McMullen, commander of the Air Force 3rd Wing at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, said in a statement.
Search teams at the wreckage site, about 100 miles north of Anchorage, found part of Haney's ejection seat and several items the pilot wore during the flight, McMullen said.
"Sadly, we can no longer consider this a search and rescue operation but must now focus on recovery operations," he said.
At a news conference, McMullen said the crash left a hole in the earth, and that most of what remains of the aircraft is below ground level. An aerial photo of the crash site showed a fairly round crater in the forest, surrounded by blackened trees.
Radar contact with Haney's aircraft was lost as the jet and another plane were returning to their home base at Elmendorf. The wreckage was spotted the next morning by an Alaska National Guard helicopter crew.
The Raptor, a single-seat, twin-engine fighter built by Lockheed Martin, is equipped with stealth technology.
(Writing by Steve Gorman; Editing by Peter Bohan)
I know it sounds awful, but if the pilot didn't eject and passed away either prior or subsequent to crashing, what are the chances of animals getting to the body? Are there wolves in that part of the world? Seems very strange that there is no body but fragments of flight suit.
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... the crash left a hole in the earth, and that most of what remains of the aircraft is below ground level.
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This thread really is taking the biscuit for insensitive comment.
1) No, the pilot didn't defect.
2) If it left a crater and the pilot was still in it at impact then no, it isn't all that odd not to find very much.
The pilot died, once upon a time that would not be occasion for speculation on the gory details, FFS.
Dave
1) No, the pilot didn't defect.
2) If it left a crater and the pilot was still in it at impact then no, it isn't all that odd not to find very much.
The pilot died, once upon a time that would not be occasion for speculation on the gory details, FFS.
Dave
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The pilot died, once upon a time that would not be occasion for speculation on the gory details, FFS.
Ignore them...
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What Happened ?
Ignore them... {-- Airborne Aircrew}
The first post or two is informative about initial, sketchy reports of a downed aircraft. That's quickly followed by a series of mawkish comments about the fate & stature of the pilot/aircrew... and perhaps some oddball speculation on the event. Further facts dribble in about the crash itself. If it's a hi-profile crash or there's enough forum interest... the thread eventually gets into serious objective discussion of the crash & causes. There are always one or two comments about how blasphemous it is to even discuss possible causes of the mishap ... prior to the sacred final report of the official mishap investigation board.
Aircraft have been crashing for over a century in huge numbers... and there's much knowledge as to why they do so. Experienced military aviators here certainly have deep insight on general causes of mishaps... that can be reasonably applied to specific aircraft events. After all -- this is a discussion forum of military aviation.
As to this specific F-22 crash, we know the pilot/aircraft impacted terrain at high speed. Non-ejection indicates the pilot was somehow incapacitated, late in the ejection decision, or perhaps had some ejection-system malfunction.
Primary mishap cause falls into known areas: maintenance, aircraft design, human factors, weather, etc.
More facts on this crash will trickle in; however, the location & condition of the aircraft will significantly slow the fact-finding. USAF mishap investigations & final reports are usually much faster than other aviation organizations.
Any comments on likely causes of this mishap ?
RIP to our comrade in arms Captain Haney. 
:
In re the question on mishap causes.
The USAF most commonly sends aircraft out in flights of two.
My first question would be: Was it a two ship, and if so, what news from the wingman or flight lead?
If not, what manner of flight profile/training profile, would most likely be undertaken solo? I imagine there are a whole basket of training missions designed for a single ship night sortie. Been a while since I saw a T & R matrix. Can any USAF fighter jocks provide insight?
As noted previously, I was part of a SAR effort off of Eastern Turkey when a single ship USAF F-16 went into the bay near Iskenderun. Based on the radar info available for our SAR planning, mishap aircraft had a high Rate of Descent before being lost to radar. It took some weeks for them to find the aircraft, underwater. In very gross terms, this event sounds eerily similar.
Three thoughts come to mind for root causes for lost F-22:
:In re the question on mishap causes.
The USAF most commonly sends aircraft out in flights of two.
My first question would be: Was it a two ship, and if so, what news from the wingman or flight lead?
If not, what manner of flight profile/training profile, would most likely be undertaken solo? I imagine there are a whole basket of training missions designed for a single ship night sortie. Been a while since I saw a T & R matrix. Can any USAF fighter jocks provide insight?
As noted previously, I was part of a SAR effort off of Eastern Turkey when a single ship USAF F-16 went into the bay near Iskenderun. Based on the radar info available for our SAR planning, mishap aircraft had a high Rate of Descent before being lost to radar. It took some weeks for them to find the aircraft, underwater. In very gross terms, this event sounds eerily similar.
Three thoughts come to mind for root causes for lost F-22:
-
- Disorientation
- Flight control/computer failure (that would have to be a multiple failure, given system redundancy in F-22 and other FBW jets)
- Midair -- though with what I've no idea.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And the terrain and weather.
Was it controlled flight into the ground such as high ground or rising in level flight or level terrain in diving flight in poor visibility or low feature contrast?
Taking the crash position from the earlier post the ground does not appear to be particularly high but certainly non-descript with trees and the Chulitna River. NW of the river though there is low mountainous terrain and snow.
NVG?
Was it controlled flight into the ground such as high ground or rising in level flight or level terrain in diving flight in poor visibility or low feature contrast?
Taking the crash position from the earlier post the ground does not appear to be particularly high but certainly non-descript with trees and the Chulitna River. NW of the river though there is low mountainous terrain and snow.
NVG?
Pontius:
From what little I know of F-22, its design and mission, I find it unlikely that low level nav is a mission (and hence training) focus for that aircraft. That leads me to guess that "low level nav route gone wrong" (how many times has that happened? Many ...) isn't an avenue of inquiry likely to bear much fruit. Also understand from the articles cited that the impact seems to have been more vertical like.
Am happy to be corrected, or to be shown where my understanding is off.
NVG training gone wrong? Could be.
From what little I know of F-22, its design and mission, I find it unlikely that low level nav is a mission (and hence training) focus for that aircraft. That leads me to guess that "low level nav route gone wrong" (how many times has that happened? Many ...) isn't an avenue of inquiry likely to bear much fruit. Also understand from the articles cited that the impact seems to have been more vertical like.
Am happy to be corrected, or to be shown where my understanding is off.
NVG training gone wrong? Could be.
Lonewolf
I remember back into the 70's when an aircraft was lost off the deck on a carrier and it was carrying an early version of a new misssile "Phoenix".
I think the whole area was saturated for weeks to try and find it because the implications of the commies finding it were scary.
I remember back into the 70's when an aircraft was lost off the deck on a carrier and it was carrying an early version of a new misssile "Phoenix".
I think the whole area was saturated for weeks to try and find it because the implications of the commies finding it were scary.
Yep, that was a Tomcat off of the Kennedy. (Off West Coast of England or Ireland, can't recall which).
IIRC, a small nuclear research sub (NR 1?) was what eventually found/recovered that Tomcat. Phoenix was a big deal in those days, for sure.
EDIT: well how about that, my memory was correct. Submarine Force Library & Museum: Submarine History, Gifts & Memorabilia
IIRC, a small nuclear research sub (NR 1?) was what eventually found/recovered that Tomcat. Phoenix was a big deal in those days, for sure.
EDIT: well how about that, my memory was correct. Submarine Force Library & Museum: Submarine History, Gifts & Memorabilia
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Lonewolf.
Just out interest, if I remember correctly, a tailfin from this aircraft was washed up on a beach in Ireland some years later. Can't remember whether east or west coast.
Just out interest, if I remember correctly, a tailfin from this aircraft was washed up on a beach in Ireland some years later. Can't remember whether east or west coast.