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JCA/JSF Basing - RAF Lossiemouth

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JCA/JSF Basing - RAF Lossiemouth

Old 13th Nov 2010, 21:07
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JCA/JSF Basing - RAF Lossiemouth

Defence Airfields Review: 17 Nov 2005: House of Commons debates (TheyWorkForYou.com)

"The JCA basing study has been very thorough, including the widespread consultation of local authorities, and it considered a number of locations in two stages. On 10 March this year, I wrote to hon. Members affected by the outcome of the first stage, notifying them that RNAS Yeovilton, RAF Kinloss and RAF Wittering were discounted from further consideration. The study then concentrated on five locations—RAF Cottesmore in Rutland, RAF Leeming in North Yorkshire, RAF Lossiemouth in Moray, RAF Marham in Norfolk and RAF St. Mawgan in Cornwall. After careful consideration of the options, I have decided that the initial base for the JCA will be RAF Lossiemouth, currently home to the Tornado GR4, as it offers the most operationally satisfactory and cost-effective solution."

Last edited by ATFQ; 5th Jun 2016 at 08:10.
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Old 13th Nov 2010, 21:35
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Originally Posted by ATFQ View Post
And nothing has changed in this respect, even after the outcome of SDSR, so good news for the Lossiemouth contingent.
But not great news for anyone who may be involved in the JSF prog in the coming years.
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Old 13th Nov 2010, 21:35
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The world has changed since 2005 and all bets are off. if I was pro-Lossie I would not take any comfort from a report that was written in 2005. To be quite honest, I would not take any comfort from anything that predates SDR or indeed the next 6 months!
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Old 13th Nov 2010, 21:37
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Was that not the plan for F-35B and also planned by Labour?
Now we 'plan' to get F-35C and have a Conservative Government could the original plan not change?

I am sure at the time I read one reason Lossie was selected was due to the noise of the B variant?
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Old 13th Nov 2010, 23:23
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And nothing has changed in this respect, even after the outcome of SDSR
Au contraire...

1) The STOVL F-35B has been found to be quieter than expected
2) Besides, we are no longer getting the F-35B; the F-35C is presumably quieter still
3) We are not going to get anything like the 150 airframes previously assumed

With infrastructure decisions due to be announced in the next few months, I would be very surprised if the JCA basing study has not been hastily re-done!

PS It always struck me as odd that Lossie was chosen for "noise" reasons; with the large-ish town of Lossiemouth next door, plus Gordonstoun school just outside the wire, there are plenty of people to annoy. As frequently referred to on this site, Marham is probably more remote in terms of population within a few miles' radius!
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Old 14th Nov 2010, 08:27
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And nothing has changed in this respect, even after the outcome of SDSR, so good news for the Lossiemouth contingent.
Except, perhaps, that this statement was from the previous Labour minister.

I have decided that the initial base for the JCA will be RAF Lossiemouth, currently home to the Tornado GR4, as it offers the most operationally satisfactory and cost-effective solution." Adam Ingram (Minister of State (Armed Forces), Ministry of Defence; East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow, Labour)

The current Minister of State for the Armed Forces is Nick Harvey, who's seat is in North Devon.

Now, remind me, in which county is RNAS Yeovilton?

I think the case for the reduced number of F-35cs being based near the carrier home port just became much stronger.........
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Old 14th Nov 2010, 08:38
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Now, remind me, in which county is RNAS Yeovilton
Somerset.
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Old 14th Nov 2010, 08:39
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South-West is South-West. (p.s. He also wants to keep Chivenor open..)
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Old 14th Nov 2010, 08:44
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And of course there are the Portland ranges (?) and lots (?) more ships to work with even when shore-based. I am sure that Freddie will be at sea even when the carrier isn't.

I stand to be corrected but I got the distinct impression that HMS Fulmar was a billet to house a carrier air group when disembraked and all the jack Tars went off on leave. The ratings mess had all the charm of a 50s council block.

Certainly it was well placed for the jets to embark as the CVAs transitted north to meet the Soviet threat. As ORAC says, south makes more sense today.
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Old 14th Nov 2010, 09:43
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That ties in nicely with the Wildcat moving to RNAS Culdrose leaving a gap wide enough to fit the JSF into...Perfick
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Old 14th Nov 2010, 13:14
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Several points.....

While the F35B has turned out to be quieter it still noisier than anything going when hovering, so the (as yet non public) plan was always to triple glaze up to quite a distance from whichever base the ac ended up on.....yes and that included all property in Lossie.......Acts of Parliament etc...though there had been a good management and process precedent set when Tonka moved to Lossie in the early 90s so that certainly added to Lossie's case, as did JMC and LFA actvity/proximity. Still noise not a primary issue now...its F35C or is it...check out new EU environmental regs.......

Seems to me the former SHAR facility at Yeovilton is a good starting point for a much smaller F35 fleet....and much financial and military logic in pushing the Wildcat to Culdrose alongside its Merlin counterpart. There is much space there after all! What SH if any, goes into Yeovilton is also an issue. The future standard CTF would seem to be a sqn of 35s plus and a BH/SH combo...so Yeovilton co-residency has much going for it. Yeovilton also now has excellent residential facilties so not too much investment required to make it right. The SW is a ConDem haven so the politics suggest it should happen too.

Sadly, despite pleasant personal memories, military and financial logic favours the demise of Lossie....but politics is never simple.....suppose it depends on how much of the Army can be accommodated up there.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 00:55
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Sadly, despite pleasant personal memories, military and financial logic favours the demise of Lossie....but politics is never simple.....suppose it depends on how much of the Army can be accommodated up there.
Other than the grouse, possibly the scotch (disgusting stuff, bit like drinking brake fluid imho) and game fishing why on earth would any self respecting squaddie want to be posted to a back water like Lossie?

The place makes Oakhampton Camp seem like Oxford Street on a friday night...
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 01:29
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Lots of wonderful beaches to keep fit on and expend all that pent up aggression!!! Sadly I fear ..personal preference and desirability will have little to do with it - more the modern real estate. That said, there is more to it than many casual observers give it credit for....and Joannas in Elgin has always had its merits!!! Moray has always been like Marmite......I was one who liked it.....but there are many who never will.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 19:46
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I agree that the Army will show little interest in RAF Lossiemouth, or Kinloss for that matter, when there are locations much closer to army training areas being vacated by the RAF in England. They might just about be persuaded to move into Leuchars, but who knows.

Alongside all the recent upgrades to its infrastructure, one of the big advantages that Lossiemouth does have is its immediate access to uncongested airspace. In today's increasingly safety conscious world (and rightly so), a guaranteed safe flying training environment must be a real bonus.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 20:29
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Originally Posted by Tallsar View Post
Moray has always been like Marmite......I was one who liked it.....but there are many who never will.
What you cannot get away from, for a large part of the English air force Scotland is a foreign place. It takes a day to drive out and a day to drive back. It costs more to holiday from there.

They can also be very clanish. Mrs PN worked at the Raigmore. She had two patients from the Western Isles who would speak not a word of English with the nurses until they found Mrs PN was English. They made an exception and would speak with her but not with the Scots nurses.

Or one day when Mrs PN opened the door:

"Good day to you Mistress, we're from the kirk."

Good morning.

"Ah, you're English, but you'll have married a Scot?"

No, he's English too.

"Good day to you Mistress, the Episcopalian church is . . . "

A rite warm welcome that was.
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Old 15th Nov 2010, 23:04
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They can also be very clanish. Mrs PN worked at the Raigmore. She had two patients from the Western Isles who would speak not a word of English with the nurses until they found Mrs PN was English. They made an exception and would speak with her but not with the Scots nurses.
Pinch of salt anyone?
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Old 16th Nov 2010, 00:18
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If the Army are so anti Northern Scotland who are those chaps in CS95 at Fort George?

I hear they might be interested in new real estate, one carefull owner, choice of two, plenty of room for running around, lots of runway lights to smash in the LR, etc.
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Old 16th Nov 2010, 10:43
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Los will stay open, with XV(R) + 1 x FL GR4 sqn. Typhoons will move from Leu to Los and eventually Los will be Tiffie base. Kinloss runway will be maintained as an RLG/div for Los. RAF will leave Leu.

Marham becomes F35 hub, replacing GR4 as it retires.

Simples, but JMO.

Last edited by just another jocky; 16th Nov 2010 at 10:44. Reason: grammar
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Old 16th Nov 2010, 11:47
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PN,

Mrs D'Sorderlee works at Raigmore. Although she is English, she does not appear to have the same level of bigotry levelled towards her as Mrs PN had; in fact, she thoroughly enjoys working there. On behalf of my countrymen - for what it's worth - I offer Mrs PN my apologies.

Duncs
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Old 25th Mar 2013, 16:28
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JAJ wrote :

Los will stay open, with XV(R) + 1 x FL GR4 sqn. Typhoons will move from Leu to Los and eventually Los will be Tiffie base. Kinloss runway will be maintained as an RLG/div for Los. RAF will leave Leu.

Marham becomes F35 hub, replacing GR4 as it retires.

Simples, but JMO.
BBC News - RAF Marham base for Joint Strike Fighter


Uncanny prescience......

Last edited by Not_a_boffin; 25th Mar 2013 at 16:30.
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