JCA/JSF Basing - RAF Lossiemouth

[Courtney Mil]

And then we'll have to move all those Tornadoes and Typhoons somewhere south of the border after the independence vote, leaving the Lossie area a bit quiet.

[Bastardeux]

the Lightning Two squadron based at RAF Marham would be a joint RAF and Royal Navy force

How have we found ourselves in a position where the RAF and RN can only field one measly squadron combined?????

[glad rag]

And how much does the POS cost per unit Bastardeux?

Not that we're going to have any.................4 days to "end of jsf Friday" apparently

[alwayslookingup]

CM. If the vote on 18.09.14 is to negotiate the terms of Independence from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, will England, Wales and Northern Ireland all of a sudden lose any strategic interest in the North Sea/North Atlantic?

I've thought of an additional source of income if Scotland were to be independent. We cold always sign a memo of understanding to rent space at Lossie, Kinloss or Macrihanish to Russia. Would save the Bears an awful lot of flying time to Cuba.

[Courtney Mil]

Originally Posted by alwayslookingup

If the vote on 18.09.14 is to negotiate the terms of Independence from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, will England, Wales and Northern Ireland all of a sudden lose any strategic interest in the North Sea/North Atlantic?

First, I agree with your emphasis on the word "IF".

Second, clearly 'no'. But that doesn't mean it's a given that the UK would continue to base its assets in a foreign country - for all sorts of reasons, not the least being economics. One of the issues that NATO members will be very wary of is an independednt Scotland sheltering under the NATO defence umbrella for free. They will want to see that Scotland is contributing its fair share and I'm not convinced that the SNP can just assume that the UK would automatically retain the current basing plan effectively providing Scotland with free Air Defence.

Now, what I can see is this. The UK would still like to have a northern AD base for QRA, as well as for other reasons, and it may well be that a deal could be struck that is mutually beneficial to both parties. That may mean permanently based forces, but could equally be a QRA detatchment as well as dets of other aircraft to take advantage of the airspace, ranges and LFAs. I wonder if Scotland would have to pay for the QRA cover or if the UK would have to pay to use the bases?

Regardless of that, I can imagine lot of pressure to base the planned Lossie squadrons in the UK so that local economies could benefit from their presence. Anyway, wouldn't Lossie be full of the Scottish Air Force squadrons?

Courtney

[NorthernSID]

RAF in post Independence Scotland

Or alternatively as part of the 'treaty' negotiations concerning independence, apply the 'Sovereign Base Area' solution as in Cyprus & keep

- The Moray peninsular including RAF Lossie & Kinloss - always need a convienient diversion &/or bolthole

- Faslane

- Garvie Island

- Leuchars for the golf

Anything else ?

[alwayslookingup]

Courtney, one of the more balanced posts I've seen from you on the matter of the Independence debate, (until the last sentence, but I'll let that one go for now).

Some semantics to comment on, however. In particular, your use of the term "UK" to denote the rump if Scotland becomes independent. I quote below Article 1 of the Act of Union 1707. From it you will see the term "Great Britain" comes from the Union of England and Scotland. If there is no longer a Union then it would seem to follow that Great Britain as an entity would cease to exist. You then have the Kingdom (Queendom?) of England united with the Principality of Wales and the six Counties of Northern Ireland. Erm, doesn't quite have the same ring. It takes Scotland to put the Great in Great Britain!

"That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England shall upon the first day of May next ensuing the date hereof and forever after be United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain And that the Ensigns Armorial of the said United Kingdom be such as Her Majesty shall appoint and the Crosses of St Andrew and St George be conjoined in such manner as Her Majesty shall think fit and used in all Flags Banners Standards and Ensigns both at Sea and Land" (my emphasis)

[alwayslookingup]

NorthernSID, are you suggesting England, Wales and Northern Ireland might actually need bits of Scotland. I thought we were all such welfare scrounging, anti English, narrow minded, whingeing, tartan clad louts that you'd all be well rid of us.

[Party Animal]

Anyway, wouldn't Lossie be full of the Scottish Air Force squadrons?

Courtney - bit optimistic there me old china

With a total of 15 aircraft inherited from the RAF, they might be sensible in calling it a single sqn. As opposed to the current RAF mentality of creating 5 sqns of 3 aircraft each (to allow career progression for the FJ boys) plus an additional 3 reserve sqns named in place of Ops, Eng and Admin Wgs!

[just another jocky]

Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin

Uncanny prescience......

I've had a lot said about me in the past.....that was never one of them!

[chopper2004]

At least M follows L in the alphabet whereas W and Y are right at the bottom of the alphabet

There is some logic to the basing

@alwayslookup

Don't joke about leasing out the northern bases to Russia

2nd Bomb Wing delegation visits Russia

[Courtney Mil]

B-52s and Tu-95s on the same base. Who would have thought it? Does this means we're all best friends forever now, or is this whole concept as weird as I think it is?

[GreenKnight121]

We are just continuing an old tradition...

Factsheets : Barksdale Information

The base turned its attention from combat to more peaceful pursuits when two B-52s, a KC-10 and their crews visited Dyagilevo Air Base, Russia, in March 1992. In May 1992, Barksdale hosted a return visit by two Russian TU-95 "Bear" bombers, an An-124 "Condor" transport and 58 Russian airmen. The Russians stayed for six days, seeing a slice of America and participating in Strategic Air Command's final Bombing and Navigation Competition awards symposium. The Russians visited again in August 1994, bringing a Tu-95 "Bear" and an Il-78 aerial tanker.

Barksdale began a friendship with Ukrainian Air Force airmen later in 1994, when a B-52 and KC-10 visited Poltava Air Base, Ukraine.

Feature - Serving up good conversations for 60 years

In May 1992, Barksdale hosted a visit by two Russian Tu-95 "Bear" bombers, an An-124 "Condor" transport and 58 Russian Airmen.

"I think the Russians were some of my favorite foreign visitors," Charles said. "We used to talk about many things, but they would always joke about American alcohol not being strong enough. Well, I gave them a double shot of 151 rum, and I don't believe they've had an issue with my drinks since."

[alwayslookingup]

Chopper2004, who said I was joking about leasing options for four extremely strategic airfields, five if we count Stornoway? Not sure as I write if Saxa Vord is still operational (aware it's not an airfield, but is/was pretty strategic).

If we're independent we'll have to find some way of making ends meet "when the oil runs out (!!)".

We'll never manage with just the fishing, agriculture, tourism, power generation (renewables, hydro electric, nuclear), whisky and oil decommissioning work, not to mention the intellectual property, a first world education system and several world class Universities churning out some of the best qualified, motivated and employable graduates in the world. No, it'd never do to go it alone.

Funny, though, how Norway manages it with most of the above.

[Courtney Mil]

What about ship-building?

[chopper2004]

@alwayslookingup

Whats Scotland gonna turn out to be .....Cuba of the North then?
Embargoed whiskey?

All taking a leaf out of Dale Browns DREAMLAND series of novels, in Armageddon whereby the Royal Brunei Air Force crews are being trained up to fly a pair of modified B-52 supplied by the DoD to counter the balance of airpower the countries in SE Asia..so instead of a handful of F-35 based up there, what you expecting a pair of Blackjacks and Bears aptly named Rob Roy?

Ah is that why at every tv commercial break we get this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kUZNQASL_8

more worrying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDous6FZNv0

and then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbctoBGog7I

Its almost like the tourist board are subversively with dark forces trying to control folks minds into thinking that Scotland,. Wales and NI have devolved and the only thing left is England.

All my mates and family abroad especially in the USA, think Scotland and Wales are different nations!

Cheers

[Courtney Mil]

Originally Posted by chopper2004

Embargoed whiskey

Unlikey that they'd embargo whiskey from Scotland. Whisky, maybe, but I doubt it!

Anyhow, there has been a change in the basing plan. Lossie was the original site chosen, as I mentioned before. So something changed at some stage.

[BEagle]

"I think the Russians were some of my favorite foreign visitors," Charles said. "We used to talk about many things, but they would always joke about American alcohol not being strong enough. Well, I gave them a double shot of 151 rum, and I don't believe they've had an issue with my drinks since."

Is Charles still at Barksdale? A wonderful chap - met him during Giant Voice '79 and he was a legend even then. I hope he's in well-deserved retirement now.

Double shot of 151 rum - no doubt the food and drink police would have something to say about that!

[alwayslookingup]

Chopper2004, Erm, Scotland and Wales have devolved. Legacy of Tony Blair, 1997 Referendum, Parliaments established in 1999. People of both countries chose Devolution because it's what they wanted. One of my favourite clips:-

SNP's Winnie Ewing opens the Scottish Parliament - YouTube

Nice ads, though, especially the Jock one.

But back to initial thread, yes, the decision on location of JSF has changed. Marham must have access to a whole lot of quality training and LFAs that Lossie doesn't.

[Bismark]

Anyhow, there has been a change in the basing plan. Lossie was the original site chosen, as I mentioned before. So something changed at some stage.

Yes it did. I suspect shivers went through the minds of the top of the RAF shop with the idea of the RN returning to Lossie with the JSF - presumably with the RN arguing that as it will be a Joint Force they should have a turn at commanding RNAS Lossie! After all they built the Wardroom.