REMEMBRANCE DAY 2011
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I collected all my poppy tins yesterday (some 35-40 at local businesses) and found that the tin from the local co-op had been stolen. Fortunately it was a second tin, the first full one had already been collected. Entirely innocent staff and customers had put extra money into a cash bag to help make good the loss.
A loss of belief in humanity instantly restored.
A loss of belief in humanity instantly restored.
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Well having done Trafalgar Square on the 11th. (A lovely little gathering of the great and good.) I felt I would be ok to do my normal Sunday Morning activity of Coaching Mini and Junior Rugby. Well not quite normal as the Club had asked me to arrainge a two minute silence. Well, I blew my old Gunnery Whistle at 1100 and all the other coaches joined in (as briefed before hand) with their ref's whistles. The effect was stunning. All coaching stopped and every one stood where they were. The teams for the 11 O'clock matches stood together, lined up as their heros had done at Twickenham the day before. The silence was perfect. the only sound was of the birds. (Thank you Liverpool and Manchester Airports.) I was so choked I could hardly blow for the Carry On at the end. This was Remembrance at it's purest.
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The other face of society...
Meanwhile, low life scum take advantage of the day. Sickening behaviour.
BBC News - Thieves target Chelsea Pensioners on Remembrance Sunday
BBC News - Thieves target Chelsea Pensioners on Remembrance Sunday
Hmm, Last Post(ing) almost a year ago...
This year I'll be back in the UK - London on 11th and in my northern home town on the 13th. Last year was spent laying a wreath at a CWGC Cemetary along with other Commonwealth personnel.
What to do this year? Well, I'll observe the 2 minutes silence on the 11th, but I think I will avoid the local service on Sunday. Why? Well, a quick check of the council website shows it promotiiong a 'service of reconcilliation' at 1400 (rather than 1100) and lists the various groups who will be participating, including Quakers (holding a silent vigil), Free Palestine, Fair Trade for (Home town), Woodland Folk, along with the usual RBL, RAFA, ACF, WI and scounting groups.
Like RWB, I fear that there is a growth in the Grief Industry; this proposed non-denominational service is labelled as a service to commemorate all victims of war and I suppose there's nothing wrong with that, but firstly I sense that it might be used as a political platform and, secondly, a lot of people will turn up to be seen - just like RWB. I'm sure it will be a jolly day out. Moreover, when I last attended the service (which was 'happy clappy', to say the least) I got a bit of grief afterwards from some of the bewhiskered, crimson-faced RBL and RAFA types there, who talked of an alien BAOR and RAFG and made slighted comments about my Balkans medals as not counting (I have medals for the Middle East and AFG as well) and then bored to the point of self-harm by two guys explaining why they should be awarded a National Defence Medal for spending their careers drinking beer in Germany, amongst recolelctions of getting drunk in the Mally and Naafi. Now I incurred the wrath of some PPruners by mentioning this attitude of some RBL and RAFA types some months ago, but again I wonder how many of those attending this service in this northern, but affluent town full of 'down-shifters' know any people currently in the Services or indeed, have any conenction at all?
Perhaps I am being a bit harsh - at least the fallen will be remembered, albeit through revisionist eyes. I might head over to Chapel at my son's school. Most of the Upper 6th of 1913 were lost on the first day of the Somme. Now that's sobering to reflect on.
This year I'll be back in the UK - London on 11th and in my northern home town on the 13th. Last year was spent laying a wreath at a CWGC Cemetary along with other Commonwealth personnel.
What to do this year? Well, I'll observe the 2 minutes silence on the 11th, but I think I will avoid the local service on Sunday. Why? Well, a quick check of the council website shows it promotiiong a 'service of reconcilliation' at 1400 (rather than 1100) and lists the various groups who will be participating, including Quakers (holding a silent vigil), Free Palestine, Fair Trade for (Home town), Woodland Folk, along with the usual RBL, RAFA, ACF, WI and scounting groups.
Like RWB, I fear that there is a growth in the Grief Industry; this proposed non-denominational service is labelled as a service to commemorate all victims of war and I suppose there's nothing wrong with that, but firstly I sense that it might be used as a political platform and, secondly, a lot of people will turn up to be seen - just like RWB. I'm sure it will be a jolly day out. Moreover, when I last attended the service (which was 'happy clappy', to say the least) I got a bit of grief afterwards from some of the bewhiskered, crimson-faced RBL and RAFA types there, who talked of an alien BAOR and RAFG and made slighted comments about my Balkans medals as not counting (I have medals for the Middle East and AFG as well) and then bored to the point of self-harm by two guys explaining why they should be awarded a National Defence Medal for spending their careers drinking beer in Germany, amongst recolelctions of getting drunk in the Mally and Naafi. Now I incurred the wrath of some PPruners by mentioning this attitude of some RBL and RAFA types some months ago, but again I wonder how many of those attending this service in this northern, but affluent town full of 'down-shifters' know any people currently in the Services or indeed, have any conenction at all?
Perhaps I am being a bit harsh - at least the fallen will be remembered, albeit through revisionist eyes. I might head over to Chapel at my son's school. Most of the Upper 6th of 1913 were lost on the first day of the Somme. Now that's sobering to reflect on.
I also have many suspicions and reservations about many of the organised civic Remembrance occasions such as the "Service of Reconciliation" you describe at your town, Wuh. The fact that it is to be held at 1400 Hrs tells its own story of a "refreshing" break with outdated customs and a "challenging" new approach. I think that true Remembrance is a very personal thing, albeit often enhanced by solemnity and tradition centred around any one of thousands of War Memorials. As usual I intend to be at our local town ceremony on Remembrance Sunday. I will be thinking of my Dad, a young Bombardier who had scarcely seen his new born son before he and his TA LAA Battery were embarked for the long and hazardous voyage to Singapore in the winter of 1941. By the time they got there it was about to fall, and they were diverted instead to Sumatra. From thereon they were on the run until being over run and captured in Java. Long cruel years of imprisonment followed, mainly in Japan mining enemy coal. Many, including my father, died of the terrible treatment and back breaking work. Others less fortunate survived, to be haunted forever by the terrible experiences they could never forget.
Lest we forget, we will remember them.
Lest we forget, we will remember them.
Chugalug,
Such a tragic story - for you and your family, echoing that Remembrance Day is primarily a personal endeavour.
I have been researching, inter alia with the help of PPruners, the story of my wife's great uncle - a 100 Sqn WOp/AG - who survived both aerial and ground slaughter in Jan/Feb 1941 in Singapore, only to be sent to the Burma railway, and surviving this, shipped to Japan to work in the coal mines. His ship (a former US merchant vessel) was torpedoed by a USN Submarine and he drowned. His death, 67 years ago, cast a long shadow over my wife's family (his brother also died in a torpedo attack, off Greenland) right through until the present day. It has only been in the last few years that members of his generation finally learned of the complete and tragic story.
Certainly, the solemnity of the occasions - Elgar's Nimrod Variations, for example - reinforce the grevious loss felt by so many. To seek equanimity with other who have died, not under service of the Crown (or that of the Allies) by jazzing the whole business, can trivialise the event and even undermine through revisionism, the important of Remembrance.
Such a tragic story - for you and your family, echoing that Remembrance Day is primarily a personal endeavour.
I have been researching, inter alia with the help of PPruners, the story of my wife's great uncle - a 100 Sqn WOp/AG - who survived both aerial and ground slaughter in Jan/Feb 1941 in Singapore, only to be sent to the Burma railway, and surviving this, shipped to Japan to work in the coal mines. His ship (a former US merchant vessel) was torpedoed by a USN Submarine and he drowned. His death, 67 years ago, cast a long shadow over my wife's family (his brother also died in a torpedo attack, off Greenland) right through until the present day. It has only been in the last few years that members of his generation finally learned of the complete and tragic story.
Certainly, the solemnity of the occasions - Elgar's Nimrod Variations, for example - reinforce the grevious loss felt by so many. To seek equanimity with other who have died, not under service of the Crown (or that of the Allies) by jazzing the whole business, can trivialise the event and even undermine through revisionism, the important of Remembrance.
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Originally Posted by Navy_Adversary
I am now off to the village war memorial to pay my respects to all the valiant people who enabled me to have a good life.
Whilst watching the BBC coverage of the Formula 1 Grand prix yesterday, it appeared that only two of the 3 presenters were wearing Poppies.
Whilst watching the BBC coverage of the Formula 1 Grand prix yesterday, it appeared that only two of the 3 presenters were wearing Poppies.
noprobs, your eyesight is probably better than mine. Is that Susannah Yorke in the RH window? Indeed could that be her in the LH window as well? In any case, good for them! If it gets peoples attention to the RBL's great work and the importance to pause once a year at least to remember the debt we owe so many generations of brave men and women, then Messrs Honeytrap Lingerie have performed a noble service.
wuh, I mentioned my story not because it was tragic, but because it was par for the course for that wartime generation, as the story you tell also demonstrates. The consequences of those terrible years live on generation upon generation, as do those of subsequent years, subsequent wars, "peace keeping", "International Policing", or whatever other euphemisms have been dreamt up by the word-smiths in Whitehall. Most families have such cause for Remembrance, and that is what they remember, not woolly high blown rhetoric about World Peace. If only!
Shanewhite, I think NA's observations about F1 are a year old! In any case, the prominent display of Poppy wearing TV commentators, even before October is done with, always leaves me with an uncomfortable feeling that I'm being got at. Unlike my Poppy which curls up within hours of me pinning it to my lapel, theirs are always pristine, mint, and perfect. I imagine that is because they are newly pinned on them by the Set Manager/ Best Boy/ Whatever from an inexhaustible supply. I'd rather get mine from Messrs Honeytrap Lingerie!
wuh, I mentioned my story not because it was tragic, but because it was par for the course for that wartime generation, as the story you tell also demonstrates. The consequences of those terrible years live on generation upon generation, as do those of subsequent years, subsequent wars, "peace keeping", "International Policing", or whatever other euphemisms have been dreamt up by the word-smiths in Whitehall. Most families have such cause for Remembrance, and that is what they remember, not woolly high blown rhetoric about World Peace. If only!
Shanewhite, I think NA's observations about F1 are a year old! In any case, the prominent display of Poppy wearing TV commentators, even before October is done with, always leaves me with an uncomfortable feeling that I'm being got at. Unlike my Poppy which curls up within hours of me pinning it to my lapel, theirs are always pristine, mint, and perfect. I imagine that is because they are newly pinned on them by the Set Manager/ Best Boy/ Whatever from an inexhaustible supply. I'd rather get mine from Messrs Honeytrap Lingerie!
Chugs,
Yet the corporate memory of the public is increadibly short; to illustrate this a survey was recently conducted (can't find the link) for people to place the year that the 7/7 bombings occured in London. Few people outside of London had the foggiest recall - typically pitching for 2001, clearly conflating the link with 9/11.*
Similarly, now that the Great War generation has passed, and WWII Generation is in their late 80s or older, there is every likelihood that the reasons for Britain and its allies went to war in 1914 and 1939 will drift and be viewed as a economic struggle seen through the lens of Socialist revisionism. My daughter went to a US DODEA school, and of course, World War I lasted only 2 years (1917-18) and World War II was a mere snip from 1941-45. Her history of WW2 failed to mention the Battle of Britain, or Operation Barbarossa, for example. Mind, if you ask the Chinese, their war with Japan started in 1931.
Our current wars are generating casualties and sympathy, but sympathy tempered with a sense of choice. As I have reported previously on this forum, where home is in the UK, the locals (often affluent urban refugees) have commented along the lines of 'no one is forced to join the Army', which matches a rather unfortunate DfID internal memo seen several years ago where soldiers were categorised as being 'young, white, aggressive males from disadvantaged backgrounds, who were racist and sexist' (this was the time that the video by Prince Harry of his South Asian friend hit the news) and demonstrated this by images white, bare-topped, muscular and tattood paras clearly enjoying laying down (defensive) MG fire in Sangin in 2006. It was the Islington 'metropolitan elite' at its worst.
We should resist the urge to dumb-down Remembrance Day and make it more 'inclusive' of the vicitms of war and festivalise it (Hey, just invested a word, I think!).
* for those with, err, memory deficiencies, it was 2005!
Yet the corporate memory of the public is increadibly short; to illustrate this a survey was recently conducted (can't find the link) for people to place the year that the 7/7 bombings occured in London. Few people outside of London had the foggiest recall - typically pitching for 2001, clearly conflating the link with 9/11.*
Similarly, now that the Great War generation has passed, and WWII Generation is in their late 80s or older, there is every likelihood that the reasons for Britain and its allies went to war in 1914 and 1939 will drift and be viewed as a economic struggle seen through the lens of Socialist revisionism. My daughter went to a US DODEA school, and of course, World War I lasted only 2 years (1917-18) and World War II was a mere snip from 1941-45. Her history of WW2 failed to mention the Battle of Britain, or Operation Barbarossa, for example. Mind, if you ask the Chinese, their war with Japan started in 1931.
Our current wars are generating casualties and sympathy, but sympathy tempered with a sense of choice. As I have reported previously on this forum, where home is in the UK, the locals (often affluent urban refugees) have commented along the lines of 'no one is forced to join the Army', which matches a rather unfortunate DfID internal memo seen several years ago where soldiers were categorised as being 'young, white, aggressive males from disadvantaged backgrounds, who were racist and sexist' (this was the time that the video by Prince Harry of his South Asian friend hit the news) and demonstrated this by images white, bare-topped, muscular and tattood paras clearly enjoying laying down (defensive) MG fire in Sangin in 2006. It was the Islington 'metropolitan elite' at its worst.
We should resist the urge to dumb-down Remembrance Day and make it more 'inclusive' of the vicitms of war and festivalise it (Hey, just invested a word, I think!).
* for those with, err, memory deficiencies, it was 2005!
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I'm proud to be the 4th genereation of my family to serve in the military. The first was my great Uncle who served with 4th Bn, Suffolk Regiment. He survived the horrors of the Somme, sadlly though he was killed in 1917 close to the town of Arras in northern France. He is commemorated along with some 35,000 other brave souls on the Arras memorial in the Faubourg-d'Amiens Cemetery. I hope to visit the memorial early next year.
Gone, but never ever forgotten.
Gone, but never ever forgotten.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Whenurhappy - Not sure if it is the same now but some years ago I was stationed in Ripon, Yorkshire, the Regiment, (Royal Engineers), had the Freedom of the City and on Remembrance Day there was a service at the cathedral and a full parade through the town. Don't know if Ripon is anywhere near you but if it is and the procedure is the same you should have a 'proper' Remembrance day service there. Probably worth checking ahead though.
Last edited by parabellum; 1st Nov 2011 at 20:36.
In any case, the prominent display of Poppy wearing TV commentators, even before October is done with, always leaves me with an uncomfortable feeling that I'm being got at.
Re "curly" poppies, I make a decent donation for my first one, and "refresh" it at a nominal cost from time to time. I think that's reasonable, as the poppies themselves cost pence to make.
In France even the smallest commune has a ceremony at the village war memorial (usually 3 sides covered with names from WW1, a few from WW2, then the odd one or two from Indo-China and N Africa), usually at 1000, followed by a service in a local church for a dozen or so communes at 1100. The chuch is always full to overflowing. Each year we have recived an invitaion from M le Maire, but this year, because we have to be in Bordeaux on 10th for a medical appointment for Mrs W we shall be in Saintes on 11/11/11 at the invitation of the French Air Force, with others, laying the RAFA wreath. I have no doubt but that it will be a most moving occasion.
Other side of t'Penines, I'm afraid Mr Parabellum. Mind you, I wouldn't expect any less form a Garrison town.
I've decided to embarrass my son and go along to his school's service on Sunday morning at St Hogwart's. Apart from the names inscribed in the cloisters, many of the families of the fallen - from WWI up to very recent times, have contributed artwork, often landscapes where the 'old boys' (many just in their 20s, if that) fell. If anything, this small gesture is even more humbling, as set in the frame is a photo of the boy when he was at the school. I hope never to be in the position to hang a similar picture there myself.
I've decided to embarrass my son and go along to his school's service on Sunday morning at St Hogwart's. Apart from the names inscribed in the cloisters, many of the families of the fallen - from WWI up to very recent times, have contributed artwork, often landscapes where the 'old boys' (many just in their 20s, if that) fell. If anything, this small gesture is even more humbling, as set in the frame is a photo of the boy when he was at the school. I hope never to be in the position to hang a similar picture there myself.
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A party from XXIV Sqn will be on the Somme for 11 Nov 11, unveiling a memorial to our first OC, Maj L E G Hawker VC, DSO, first ace of the RFC, KIA 23 Nov 16 by an unknown upstart young German name of Manfred Von Richthofen. The local Maire & his village have been very supportive of the sqn's plans. I understand that at one of the panning meetings when it was said that the village was being put to alot of bother - 'It's nothing, he died for France!'
The sqn has also arranged for the replica DH2 from Wickenby to fly to the Somme to do a flypast - the aircraft's painted in the colours of Hawker's one - it should be an awesome sight passing overhead where he was buried and on over the memorial.
The sqn has also arranged for the replica DH2 from Wickenby to fly to the Somme to do a flypast - the aircraft's painted in the colours of Hawker's one - it should be an awesome sight passing overhead where he was buried and on over the memorial.
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This arrived in my inbox with a plea to send it on. I hope it feels at home here.
THE FINAL INSPECTION
The soldier stood and faced his God,
Which must always come to pass.
He hoped his shoes were shining,
Just as brightly as his brass.
'Step forward now, you soldier,
How shall I deal with you ?
Have you always turned the other cheek ?
To My Church have you been true?'
The soldier squared his shoulders and said,
'No, Lord, I guess I ain't.
Because those of us who carry guns,
Can't always be a saint.
I've had to work most Sundays,
And at times my talk was tough.
And sometimes I've been violent,
Because the world is awfully rough.
But, I never took a penny,
That wasn't mine to keep...
Though I worked a lot of overtime,
When the bills got just too steep.
And I never passed a cry for help,
Though at times I shook with fear.
And sometimes, God, forgive me,
I've wept unmanly tears.
I know I don't deserve a place,
Among the people here.
They never wanted me around,
Except to calm their fears.
If you've a place for me here, Lord,
It needn't be so grand.
I never expected or had too much,
But if you don't, I'll understand.
There was a silence all around the throne,
Where the saints had often trod.
As the soldier waited quietly,
For the judgment of his God.
'Step forward now, you soldier,
You've borne your burdens well.
Walk peacefully on Heaven's streets,
You've done your time in Hell.'
Author Unknown
We WILL remember them.
THE FINAL INSPECTION
The soldier stood and faced his God,
Which must always come to pass.
He hoped his shoes were shining,
Just as brightly as his brass.
'Step forward now, you soldier,
How shall I deal with you ?
Have you always turned the other cheek ?
To My Church have you been true?'
The soldier squared his shoulders and said,
'No, Lord, I guess I ain't.
Because those of us who carry guns,
Can't always be a saint.
I've had to work most Sundays,
And at times my talk was tough.
And sometimes I've been violent,
Because the world is awfully rough.
But, I never took a penny,
That wasn't mine to keep...
Though I worked a lot of overtime,
When the bills got just too steep.
And I never passed a cry for help,
Though at times I shook with fear.
And sometimes, God, forgive me,
I've wept unmanly tears.
I know I don't deserve a place,
Among the people here.
They never wanted me around,
Except to calm their fears.
If you've a place for me here, Lord,
It needn't be so grand.
I never expected or had too much,
But if you don't, I'll understand.
There was a silence all around the throne,
Where the saints had often trod.
As the soldier waited quietly,
For the judgment of his God.
'Step forward now, you soldier,
You've borne your burdens well.
Walk peacefully on Heaven's streets,
You've done your time in Hell.'
Author Unknown
We WILL remember them.
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I never saw active service only being a VRT, but have lost ex-cadets in the Falklands and more recent conflicts. I am proud to say I knew them and that they died serving the Country they loved.
When you go home tell them of us and say, for your tomorrow we gave our today.
When you go home tell them of us and say, for your tomorrow we gave our today.
When stationed at Laarbruch in the 90s, my wife and I used to go over the border to the Cemeteries near Arnhem then back via the one in the forest around this time of year. My son is now the same age - 17 - as the youngest Para I saw buried there. Gives me pause for thought, perhaps even more now than it did then.