The RAF and asthma - WHY?!
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The RAF and asthma - WHY?!
I have noticed that there have been numerous posts on this topic regarding people who are getting declined or think they are going to be declared permeanantly unfit for service.
Why the hell are the RAF so scared of asthma? I find it unbelievable that they are so massively reluctant to accept anybody with so much as a childhood stint of asthma.
In my view they have indeed missed out on some potentialy great airmen/women because of this archaic rule. I'm of the opinion that they can be just as 'fit' and surely in some cases even fitter than someobody who hasn't had the dreaded words 'asthma' staining their medical records, misdiagnosed or otherwise. In most cases it seems, those with childhood asthma have 'grown out it' years ago, and as such have never been affected by it since, nor are they at all likely to see it return.
Even those who try and appeal seem to have very limited success.
If anything, I can certainly understand how people who still currently need an inhaler or other such cases might be permeanantly unfit for service, although it is unfortunate, they cannot be regarded as 'safe', but those who have been cleared... I mean, come on.
Are these ludicrous rules likely to lighten anytime soon. What about this vaccine that is to be released soon that effectively 'cures' asthma for a period of time, will the rules adapt to that?
The reason for this post, is, yes... I've got an appointment with my GP tomorrow to see if I can get two counts of 'asthma' appearing on my medical records altered/misdiagnosed, although I remain particularly pessimistic, so this was a bit of a rant, but I just think there really no need to impose such non-sensical rules. Nontheless, I am preapred to have my dreams shattered before me
Please, share your thoughts though
Why the hell are the RAF so scared of asthma? I find it unbelievable that they are so massively reluctant to accept anybody with so much as a childhood stint of asthma.
In my view they have indeed missed out on some potentialy great airmen/women because of this archaic rule. I'm of the opinion that they can be just as 'fit' and surely in some cases even fitter than someobody who hasn't had the dreaded words 'asthma' staining their medical records, misdiagnosed or otherwise. In most cases it seems, those with childhood asthma have 'grown out it' years ago, and as such have never been affected by it since, nor are they at all likely to see it return.
Even those who try and appeal seem to have very limited success.
If anything, I can certainly understand how people who still currently need an inhaler or other such cases might be permeanantly unfit for service, although it is unfortunate, they cannot be regarded as 'safe', but those who have been cleared... I mean, come on.
Are these ludicrous rules likely to lighten anytime soon. What about this vaccine that is to be released soon that effectively 'cures' asthma for a period of time, will the rules adapt to that?
The reason for this post, is, yes... I've got an appointment with my GP tomorrow to see if I can get two counts of 'asthma' appearing on my medical records altered/misdiagnosed, although I remain particularly pessimistic, so this was a bit of a rant, but I just think there really no need to impose such non-sensical rules. Nontheless, I am preapred to have my dreams shattered before me
Please, share your thoughts though
Gentleman Aviator
Sadly Jonesyboy they do it because they can afford to be picky. I'm sure PN will enlighten us as to the exact figures, but certainly scores, probably hundreds apply for every aircrew post.
All things being equal (which I know they never ever are) someone with a history of asthma may be (in their opinion) marginally more likely to have problems.
If they can fill the (decreasing
) number of slots with asthma-free people, then I'm afraid they will. I guess it's applying ALARP or "ten to the minus sixth" or whatever it currently is to the airworthiness of the crews......
Edited to add: Jonesyboy, I've just seen your longer post on the subject in the Medical Forum. I'm afraid your ambitions for multi-engined flying will make no difference, the RAF effectively sets FJ potential as the entry standard, as that is the largest number of slots they have to fill.
All things being equal (which I know they never ever are) someone with a history of asthma may be (in their opinion) marginally more likely to have problems.
If they can fill the (decreasing
) number of slots with asthma-free people, then I'm afraid they will. I guess it's applying ALARP or "ten to the minus sixth" or whatever it currently is to the airworthiness of the crews......Edited to add: Jonesyboy, I've just seen your longer post on the subject in the Medical Forum. I'm afraid your ambitions for multi-engined flying will make no difference, the RAF effectively sets FJ potential as the entry standard, as that is the largest number of slots they have to fill.
Asthma
I was in for 12yrs, downgraded for last 3 with asthma, could serve in RAFG and Cyprus, but not MPA and could'nt go on a possible det to an oli rich state. Even though been told Middle East countries have far better hospitals than our NHS.
The RAF will not take the chance your condition may worsen, especially as you may be flying, or being flown into a moutainous country at night !
The RAF will not take the chance your condition may worsen, especially as you may be flying, or being flown into a moutainous country at night !
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I know whose opinion I would believe. And to answer THs comment, it is about 1000-1.
JB,
It's similar to the policy for eyesight. Although the RAF will keep aircrew flying if their eyesight deteriorates in Service, they won't consider an ab-initio applicant with the same perscription.
Not surprisingly, when you've got the ability to pick and choose, you pick and choose! (Although my preference would be to accept the guys with specs or with historic asthma issues and balance it with a radical increase in the standard needed on the aptitude tests)
It's similar to the policy for eyesight. Although the RAF will keep aircrew flying if their eyesight deteriorates in Service, they won't consider an ab-initio applicant with the same perscription.
Not surprisingly, when you've got the ability to pick and choose, you pick and choose! (Although my preference would be to accept the guys with specs or with historic asthma issues and balance it with a radical increase in the standard needed on the aptitude tests)
Red On, Green On
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Top tip - apply to the Royal Navy at the same time. They are less stringent, though reading your post on the Med forum I'd guess they will still insist on a four year symptom-free period, which will hold you back.
Right now the services have more than enough applicants who meet the strict criteria, so why open the gates even wider, for no additional benefit?
Right now the services have more than enough applicants who meet the strict criteria, so why open the gates even wider, for no additional benefit?
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Jonesyboy
The RAF may have lost plenty of good individuals through various reasons, but it is unlikely you would be one of them IMHO.
Whether you are a troll or not, just because YOU do not know why asthma is a no no, then it does not change anything.
Lets imagine you have had asthma as a child (and so it could return under stress etc), and you are in a hot sandy country. You suddenly come under artillery fire, which may contain chemical weapons. Now, all of a sudden you feel short of breath. Is this due to asthma returning or the exactly similar effects of chemical agent, or just plain fear?
You have about two second to decide if you need to make sure everyone else around you fits their respirator (and instantly becomes massively less effective, or lives/dies), or whether you are simply short of breath due to fear. The complication comes when you suddenly realise that if it is asthma, then it is the end of your career, and if its not, then your mates won't be able to count on you, due to you not being able to breath in your respirator due to ingesting chemical agent.
That is over simplifying things, but then why should the services takes risks with a wheezer, when there are plenty of fit folks to choose from?
I know I come from a green background, so am very aware of why asthma is a no no, but any light blue types can find themselves in the same position too.
The military is a team thing, and the 'whole' is the strength, not the individual.
Just my two penneth
The RAF may have lost plenty of good individuals through various reasons, but it is unlikely you would be one of them IMHO.
Whether you are a troll or not, just because YOU do not know why asthma is a no no, then it does not change anything.
Lets imagine you have had asthma as a child (and so it could return under stress etc), and you are in a hot sandy country. You suddenly come under artillery fire, which may contain chemical weapons. Now, all of a sudden you feel short of breath. Is this due to asthma returning or the exactly similar effects of chemical agent, or just plain fear?
You have about two second to decide if you need to make sure everyone else around you fits their respirator (and instantly becomes massively less effective, or lives/dies), or whether you are simply short of breath due to fear. The complication comes when you suddenly realise that if it is asthma, then it is the end of your career, and if its not, then your mates won't be able to count on you, due to you not being able to breath in your respirator due to ingesting chemical agent.
That is over simplifying things, but then why should the services takes risks with a wheezer, when there are plenty of fit folks to choose from?
I know I come from a green background, so am very aware of why asthma is a no no, but any light blue types can find themselves in the same position too.
The military is a team thing, and the 'whole' is the strength, not the individual.
Just my two penneth
Jonesyboy, I'm usually just a lurker on here but I thought I'd login and comment. I can understand your frustration. I was given a 'medically unfit' when I tried to join at your age (albeit not with asthma)
They can't afford to take chances - bith in terms of money, and in terms of your and your colleagues safety. Whatever the problem may have been, they can't take a chance that it could cause your operational effectiveness to drop at a crucial time.
It might be a crushing disappointment, but there are plenty more life opportunnities for you - if you have the skills and intelligence to be considering this career path, I'm sure you can suceed in other life areas - I know I did.
They can't afford to take chances - bith in terms of money, and in terms of your and your colleagues safety. Whatever the problem may have been, they can't take a chance that it could cause your operational effectiveness to drop at a crucial time.
It might be a crushing disappointment, but there are plenty more life opportunnities for you - if you have the skills and intelligence to be considering this career path, I'm sure you can suceed in other life areas - I know I did.
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The strict standards on childhood asthma would make more sense if smokers were also barred from entry into the services.
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There are effectively no deaths worth counting for normal adult drinkers under 40, or for smokers, but there are about two deaths per hundred thousand due to asthma for the same age group. OK, small risk, but why put one in a single-seat cockpit?
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Brainstormer is right...there is no room for the ill, lame or unfit here.
Just imagine, you might end up with a half blind admiral with only one arm. Or a fighter pilot with no legs.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TOFO, but they were fit when they joined. That they recklessly endagered themselves and remained in the Services clearly demonstrates how sadly we were lacking in health and safety.
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Training Costs
Being curious I did a little research in respect of the cost of Pilot Training and found that in 2008 the average cost of RAF Pilot Training from Entry to Squadron was £9.19 million. I guess that cost will now be around £10 million.
There is absolutely no way to justify accepting someone with a known background of a medical condition such as asthma for pilot training in the hope that they do not suffer an attack whilst airborne.
The three "legless" Pilots who flew with the RAF in WW2 had all qualified as military pilots before losing their legs.
There is absolutely no way to justify accepting someone with a known background of a medical condition such as asthma for pilot training in the hope that they do not suffer an attack whilst airborne.
The three "legless" Pilots who flew with the RAF in WW2 had all qualified as military pilots before losing their legs.
Gentleman Aviator
The three "legless" Pilots who flew with the RAF in WW2 had all qualified as military pilots before losing their legs.
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JB
Saw a bloke have an asthma attack once, wouldn't want to see it while he was holding the sticks or in any crew position where he was being relied upon.
Re the pilot and leg deficiency angle, should a pilot with 3 legs be rejected?
Saw a bloke have an asthma attack once, wouldn't want to see it while he was holding the sticks or in any crew position where he was being relied upon.
Re the pilot and leg deficiency angle, should a pilot with 3 legs be rejected?
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Just to give a bit of hope to those currently despairing.
I had a medical record of childhood asthma which did pose a slight sticking point before starting IOT. However, I was given the opportunity to prove it was either a mis-diagnosis or could not affect me in the future. It involved a few visits to Peterborough hospital and then finally to a hospital in Knightsbridge (IIRC as this is about 12-13 years ago). The results from all the tests showed all clear and I was eventually allowed to join as a pilot.
I've had my wings for 10 years now and never looked back (maybe across the fence now and again!).
So, just an example to show that all is not lost to those who find themselves in that unfortunate situation.
Good Luck!
And don't listen to people who tell you what you can't do. There is nothing to fear but fear itself, and spiders.
I had a medical record of childhood asthma which did pose a slight sticking point before starting IOT. However, I was given the opportunity to prove it was either a mis-diagnosis or could not affect me in the future. It involved a few visits to Peterborough hospital and then finally to a hospital in Knightsbridge (IIRC as this is about 12-13 years ago). The results from all the tests showed all clear and I was eventually allowed to join as a pilot.
I've had my wings for 10 years now and never looked back (maybe across the fence now and again!).
So, just an example to show that all is not lost to those who find themselves in that unfortunate situation.
Good Luck!
And don't listen to people who tell you what you can't do. There is nothing to fear but fear itself, and spiders.
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My penny's worth - my mildly ashmatic youngest son desperately wanted to join the light blues after his older sibling went off, eventually, to a place in the English Marches where only Jedi's live................... But several applications thru a fairly sympathetic Bristol RAF CIO met with the same predictable response - sorry, we dont accept asthmatics in any trade whatsoever at any time ever.
So, he applied to be a copper and is now happily racing around Plymouth in his government funded jam sandwich, still being paid by Betty and thanks Devon & Cornwall Constabulary for his eternal good fortune and eventual early retirement.
Move on my friend - you'll eventually learn that some battles are not worth fighting.
So, he applied to be a copper and is now happily racing around Plymouth in his government funded jam sandwich, still being paid by Betty and thanks Devon & Cornwall Constabulary for his eternal good fortune and eventual early retirement.
Move on my friend - you'll eventually learn that some battles are not worth fighting.
Right now the services have more than enough applicants who meet the strict criteria, so why open the gates even wider, for no additional benefit?