Cuts endanger UK, RAF's Timo Anderson warns
OK Jabba, what should he have said? Timo's committment to the purity and utility of air power and to the preservation of the Royal Air Force as a viable and independent entity is beyond reproach.I also understand that there is a sh!t storm under way on the 5th floor over the leak of this speech...
In fairness to Jabba, he is stating that the UK AD infrastructure has been salami sliced for years with the full approval of the airships. It is now past being a token effort and is fast becoming a joke. To now start shouting that it is so vital is a little disingenuous.
That said, I salute the man for bringing this out in the open. This is a dirty fight, so time to fight dirty. This shower of politicians is no better than those they replaced. Use the media the same way they do.
My prediction is that in 6 years we will be defending our Island Nation with Landrovers and helicopters. The carriers will be used as floating platforms to take bankers around the world trying to flog dodgy bank accounts to third world farmers.
That said, I salute the man for bringing this out in the open. This is a dirty fight, so time to fight dirty. This shower of politicians is no better than those they replaced. Use the media the same way they do.
My prediction is that in 6 years we will be defending our Island Nation with Landrovers and helicopters. The carriers will be used as floating platforms to take bankers around the world trying to flog dodgy bank accounts to third world farmers.
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I dont see why there should be a sh1tstorm about the leak. Theres nothing of great substance in it.
I just find it extremely hollow to whimper "wolf" on UK AD when important elements of it particularly ASACS have been repeatedly salami sliced since 1998. Now, it either matters to you or it doesnt. If thats the party line that is going to be taken, fine, on their heads be it. I personally think its a bit late for this kind of bleeding stump parade, but what do I know?
I was not just referring to the loss of the CRC's and not just the south as well. From what I know we do not have the coverage in the north in the Shetlands/Faeroes/Iceland gap that we used to. The UK attitude towards the NATO ACCS programme for instance, has been highly questionable to put it politely. Our reputation on the other side of the channel for the way we have handled this particular aspect is not quite what it could be.
By all means, make the most of the power of networking to allow you to do more with less sites and less people, which is what happened with IUKADGE and UCMP and it has to be relative to the perceived threat, which is not what it was, but neither is it non existant.
Were there not also serious questions in the recent past asked regarding the amount of hours per month and per year available for training for UK AD squadrons? The incident where an F3 and both members of the crew were lost?
But going forward, there has to be a minimum that the system can be trimmed to and still be able to deliver against the requirement and in my very humble professional opinion, it has gone as far as it possibly can.
Now, I realise he may be just one of many senior airships and I dare say that he either has not been party to (or does not get to influence) a number of decisions that have led us to this point. As you say, maybe this is the first real time he has been thrust into the proverbial limelight, delivering a speech that wasn't even written for him.
Jacko, you obviously know him better than I do. And he's a senior airship and I'm just another civvy.
His opinion is obviously going to matter more than mine and I'm not even part of his target audience. Such is life. But, as one with an active personal and professional interest in matters AD going back the best part of 30 years, I have serious misgivings on the way the UK is dealing with this matter and find the statement too little, to the wrong audience, too late.
I just find it extremely hollow to whimper "wolf" on UK AD when important elements of it particularly ASACS have been repeatedly salami sliced since 1998. Now, it either matters to you or it doesnt. If thats the party line that is going to be taken, fine, on their heads be it. I personally think its a bit late for this kind of bleeding stump parade, but what do I know?
I was not just referring to the loss of the CRC's and not just the south as well. From what I know we do not have the coverage in the north in the Shetlands/Faeroes/Iceland gap that we used to. The UK attitude towards the NATO ACCS programme for instance, has been highly questionable to put it politely. Our reputation on the other side of the channel for the way we have handled this particular aspect is not quite what it could be.
By all means, make the most of the power of networking to allow you to do more with less sites and less people, which is what happened with IUKADGE and UCMP and it has to be relative to the perceived threat, which is not what it was, but neither is it non existant.
Were there not also serious questions in the recent past asked regarding the amount of hours per month and per year available for training for UK AD squadrons? The incident where an F3 and both members of the crew were lost?
But going forward, there has to be a minimum that the system can be trimmed to and still be able to deliver against the requirement and in my very humble professional opinion, it has gone as far as it possibly can.
Now, I realise he may be just one of many senior airships and I dare say that he either has not been party to (or does not get to influence) a number of decisions that have led us to this point. As you say, maybe this is the first real time he has been thrust into the proverbial limelight, delivering a speech that wasn't even written for him.
Jacko, you obviously know him better than I do. And he's a senior airship and I'm just another civvy.
His opinion is obviously going to matter more than mine and I'm not even part of his target audience. Such is life. But, as one with an active personal and professional interest in matters AD going back the best part of 30 years, I have serious misgivings on the way the UK is dealing with this matter and find the statement too little, to the wrong audience, too late.
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Thank you Wyler, that was exactly what I was getting at. I've just seen your post after I'd put my reply up.
I just have a tendency to ramble on a bit in my old age.
I just have a tendency to ramble on a bit in my old age.
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Originally Posted by Pontius_Navigator
Need to be careful harking back to a 9/11 scenario.
Suppose there were 4 aircraft targeted at major centres in UK such as London, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Bradford. Do we have 6 aircraft on QRA so that we could send 2 against each potential threat?
Suppose there were 4 aircraft targeted at major centres in UK such as London, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Bradford. Do we have 6 aircraft on QRA so that we could send 2 against each potential threat?
I think that the public aren't really aware of the necessity for UK AD, as it's not a very tangible asset of the RAF.
After all, them doing their job is to make sure that nothing happens, be it intruding Russians, or hijacked jets, and people rarely notice the absence of something. Add to that some people will question why we need to spend millions of pounds on our jets being ready to intercept Russians when the Cold War is over, and the Russians wouldn't in their wildest dreams bomb us - what would they have to gain?
It would appear that 'Sh!t storm" was no exaggeration, but the annoyance is purportedly about the SDSR context which the speech was given in the original Telegraph report, which CAS has described as "egregious misreporting".
The Telegraph website appears to have revised its original report attributing the speech to CAS - and has also published Air Marshal Anderson's Slessor Lecture in full - .
The Telegraph website appears to have revised its original report attributing the speech to CAS - and has also published Air Marshal Anderson's Slessor Lecture in full - .
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Damian, you were misinformed. I was told by a reliable source, Mike Read, that it was improvements not damage.
I made this point over on t'army means last night, so apologies to anyone who's seen this twice - but the Air League Slessor Lecture does not a last minute panicked appeal to MPs make...
Also, I suspect that graduates of ACSC11 will recognise that the lecture is of similar structure to the 'Air Power According to Timo' lecture delivered at the start of that course (and ACSC 12, IIRC) - and it was 'according to Timo', rather than one which was written for him. I note that the story appears to have somehow slipped off the Telegraph's homepage and is actually quite difficult to find now. By the by, as this is an Air League lecture, might the 'leak' not in fact be a transcript put out for wider information??
FWIW, CAS has responded:
Also, I suspect that graduates of ACSC11 will recognise that the lecture is of similar structure to the 'Air Power According to Timo' lecture delivered at the start of that course (and ACSC 12, IIRC) - and it was 'according to Timo', rather than one which was written for him. I note that the story appears to have somehow slipped off the Telegraph's homepage and is actually quite difficult to find now. By the by, as this is an Air League lecture, might the 'leak' not in fact be a transcript put out for wider information??
FWIW, CAS has responded:
I would like to make clear that this was egregious misreporting, factually inaccurate, and spun to make a political argument which was not there. The speech was in fact given by the Director General of the Military Aviation Authority, Air Marshal Timo Anderson. It was a robust articulation of the roles of air power, and what the RAF is doing on operations today. It was cleared by the Defence Media and Communications Director and was not seen as political or an intervention in the Strategic Defence and Security Review [SDSR] debate.
"In the full speech, you will see that the Telegraph has spun the words in the speech for its own purposes to make a story angle that did not exist. It was certainly not an attack on the Prime Minister's comments or intended to be a late public intervention into the SDSR considerations (which continue).
"In the full speech, you will see that the Telegraph has spun the words in the speech for its own purposes to make a story angle that did not exist. It was certainly not an attack on the Prime Minister's comments or intended to be a late public intervention into the SDSR considerations (which continue).
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Archimedes, thanks for the quote from CAS' e-mail.
Shoddy, opportunistic journalism from the Telegraph then......
I also note their article on the Apache missile keeps refering to RAF engineers as if we operated the helicopter. Schoolboy error - why is it that journalists from so called 'quality' newspapers make such elementary mistakes? I'd expect it from the Sun or the Mail but really .....
Shoddy, opportunistic journalism from the Telegraph then......
I also note their article on the Apache missile keeps refering to RAF engineers as if we operated the helicopter. Schoolboy error - why is it that journalists from so called 'quality' newspapers make such elementary mistakes? I'd expect it from the Sun or the Mail but really .....
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It's OK, there will never be a threat to UK
Chamberlain 1936
OK so I paraphrase.
We can never predict what forces we need for the next conflict because they are never the same as the last one. Rule number 1 is Air Superiority over the Battlefield. We've already forgotten that rule during the recent conflict. How many have said its irrelevant? It's only irrelevant when you enjoy it.... and the myth of Typhoon as a "Cold War Fighter" is equally dangerous.
Timo breathes Air Power. His loyalties may lie with his former force but maybe for once, our politicians may listen.
Chamberlain 1936
OK so I paraphrase.
We can never predict what forces we need for the next conflict because they are never the same as the last one. Rule number 1 is Air Superiority over the Battlefield. We've already forgotten that rule during the recent conflict. How many have said its irrelevant? It's only irrelevant when you enjoy it.... and the myth of Typhoon as a "Cold War Fighter" is equally dangerous.
Timo breathes Air Power. His loyalties may lie with his former force but maybe for once, our politicians may listen.
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Good stuff all in all from Timo and not untypical of the man. But it does make you wonder whether such an RAF focussed Air Power centric guy should be operating elsewhere in the RAF and not sitting as head of the MAA?
Let's just hope he is applying the same rigorous level of enthusiasm at addressing the number one priority of his MAA day job which is getting to the bottom of the MOD's failings in airworthiness and safety management on which we have heard very, very, little.
Let's just hope he is applying the same rigorous level of enthusiasm at addressing the number one priority of his MAA day job which is getting to the bottom of the MOD's failings in airworthiness and safety management on which we have heard very, very, little.
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SRENNAPS,
I don't entirely disagree with your comments but Brown made cuts to our services when times were good and the economy was awash with cash. Had investment been made then and in the right places we wouldn't be so strapped now and some cuts would be more palatable.
Quote:
"Today’s Government has the potential to ruthlessly cut the armed forces (and other areas) to a dangerous level but they have the luxury of being able to blame the last governments’ so called incompetence for doing it and most people believing that they are right."
Correct. We are all too well aware just what the cuts could mean, not only to our strength but to local economies which depend on our forces. Unfortunately there is no way we can avoid them. Its a big sh!t sandwich and we'll all be taking a bite. Blaming the previous administration is something all politicians do.
Timo's statements (IMHO) were bold and factual, hopefully Dave and co will take it on board but I suspect its too late even for the best of governments to sort out in one term.
I don't entirely disagree with your comments but Brown made cuts to our services when times were good and the economy was awash with cash. Had investment been made then and in the right places we wouldn't be so strapped now and some cuts would be more palatable.
Quote:
"Today’s Government has the potential to ruthlessly cut the armed forces (and other areas) to a dangerous level but they have the luxury of being able to blame the last governments’ so called incompetence for doing it and most people believing that they are right."
Correct. We are all too well aware just what the cuts could mean, not only to our strength but to local economies which depend on our forces. Unfortunately there is no way we can avoid them. Its a big sh!t sandwich and we'll all be taking a bite. Blaming the previous administration is something all politicians do.
Timo's statements (IMHO) were bold and factual, hopefully Dave and co will take it on board but I suspect its too late even for the best of governments to sort out in one term.
Last edited by The Magic Rat; 13th Oct 2010 at 21:04. Reason: Grammar!
If the personality quotes are right I think that "Timo" is exactly the right person to put into a new MAA and give it teeth (or at least a voice) in its formative period.
The last thing the MAA needs is a mouse in charge.
The last thing the MAA needs is a mouse in charge.
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"Good stuff all in all from Timo and not untypical of the man. But it does make you wonder whether such an RAF focussed Air Power centric guy should be operating elsewhere in the RAF and not sitting as head of the MAA?"
"Let's just hope he is applying the same rigorous level of enthusiasm at addressing the number one priority of his MAA day job which is getting to the bottom of the MOD's failings in airworthiness and safety management on which we have heard very, very, little."
Indeed.A lot of you, whose contributions I respect a lot, appear to know him an awful lot better than me and appear to hold him in high regard. Maybe its my cynicism.
We shall have the uncomfortable wait to see how it all pans out.
"Let's just hope he is applying the same rigorous level of enthusiasm at addressing the number one priority of his MAA day job which is getting to the bottom of the MOD's failings in airworthiness and safety management on which we have heard very, very, little."
Indeed.A lot of you, whose contributions I respect a lot, appear to know him an awful lot better than me and appear to hold him in high regard. Maybe its my cynicism.
We shall have the uncomfortable wait to see how it all pans out.
We would hope and expect that senior military officers would understand and profess the benefits of their particular Service.
However, as Bernard Gray made clear in his report, it has been single-Service parochialism that has led Defence to having a £36Billion hole in its 10 year budget in equipment alone, irrespective of any effect from the financial downturn. If senior officers of the past had shown more purple credentials in solving the problems (that were apparent to all ranks), we wouldn't be facing anything like the challenge we have now.
Catch 22 really - we want our chiefs to fight our corner, but we literally cannot afford them to.
However, as Bernard Gray made clear in his report, it has been single-Service parochialism that has led Defence to having a £36Billion hole in its 10 year budget in equipment alone, irrespective of any effect from the financial downturn. If senior officers of the past had shown more purple credentials in solving the problems (that were apparent to all ranks), we wouldn't be facing anything like the challenge we have now.
Catch 22 really - we want our chiefs to fight our corner, but we literally cannot afford them to.
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I much prefer this version of the original story!
Cuts could leave UK open to giant gorilla attack, warns RAF | newsarse.com
Cuts could leave UK open to giant gorilla attack, warns RAF | newsarse.com
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So, a week to go to SDSR's grand unveiling and the AM speaks out.
Sh!t, where's my horse gone, better bolt that stable door!
This has been turned into an inter-Service battle of wits. It's really not about pompous Service-based rhetoric.
Who cares what form the future of UK defence takes - we are small enough to be a single Defence Force now. Cut 2 out of 3 hierarchies (and their final salary pensions) and i dare say the budget would go a lot further! We are simply practitioners of air power, operating in the service of the nation.
What we must be doing, with calm sensibility, is arguing the case for air power and its roles. I'm sure the Army won't be laughing as they're screaming for 'fast air' over the airwaves and none is forthcoming.
Hey-ho...come Tuesday i guess we'll know for sure!
Sh!t, where's my horse gone, better bolt that stable door!
This has been turned into an inter-Service battle of wits. It's really not about pompous Service-based rhetoric.
Who cares what form the future of UK defence takes - we are small enough to be a single Defence Force now. Cut 2 out of 3 hierarchies (and their final salary pensions) and i dare say the budget would go a lot further! We are simply practitioners of air power, operating in the service of the nation.
What we must be doing, with calm sensibility, is arguing the case for air power and its roles. I'm sure the Army won't be laughing as they're screaming for 'fast air' over the airwaves and none is forthcoming.
Hey-ho...come Tuesday i guess we'll know for sure!
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Deal will help RAF to 'police the sky' - Portsmouth Today
Dont tell me we fired/let go all of our JAFAD's as well... whats going on here???
What kind of Air Power is this???
Perfectly happy to stand corrected if anyone knows any different....
Update:
Not the right time to step on the outrage bus (well not exactly anyway)... the way the publication has described it compared to what it is actually doing is somewhat differerent....
"BMT Reliability Consultants Ltd, a subsidiary of BMT Group Ltd, the leading international maritime design, engineering and risk management consultancy, has been awarded a four-year contract to provide support to the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) Air Defence & Air Traffic Systems (ADATS) Delivery Team. The contract will help the MoD to assess the in-service performance of its T101 and T102 radars and ensure that they are managed effectively while delivering to the required operational availability."
"BMT Reliability Consultants is a specialist in availability, reliability and maintainability and has been providing these services to government and industry for over 25 years. This latest contract recognises the extensive knowledge that the company has in this field and, in particular, the excellence of its work in supporting the ADATS Delivery Team over the past 16 years. The new contract means that the relationship will continue until 2014."
"Ensuring that the equipment meets its key performance indicators (KPIs), such as in-service availability, is of major importance to the ADATS Delivery Team. From the Falklands to the Outer Hebrides and in many other, often remote locations, the ADATS Delivery Team is responsible for the through-life management of current air defence and air traffic systems. This includes providing surveillance capability to support military operations and enabling a safe, cost effective capability for air traffic control."
More DE&S outsourcing then... Isn't this a function the Delivery Team should be doing themselves?
Dont tell me we fired/let go all of our JAFAD's as well... whats going on here???
What kind of Air Power is this???
Perfectly happy to stand corrected if anyone knows any different....
Update:
Not the right time to step on the outrage bus (well not exactly anyway)... the way the publication has described it compared to what it is actually doing is somewhat differerent....
"BMT Reliability Consultants Ltd, a subsidiary of BMT Group Ltd, the leading international maritime design, engineering and risk management consultancy, has been awarded a four-year contract to provide support to the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) Air Defence & Air Traffic Systems (ADATS) Delivery Team. The contract will help the MoD to assess the in-service performance of its T101 and T102 radars and ensure that they are managed effectively while delivering to the required operational availability."
"BMT Reliability Consultants is a specialist in availability, reliability and maintainability and has been providing these services to government and industry for over 25 years. This latest contract recognises the extensive knowledge that the company has in this field and, in particular, the excellence of its work in supporting the ADATS Delivery Team over the past 16 years. The new contract means that the relationship will continue until 2014."
"Ensuring that the equipment meets its key performance indicators (KPIs), such as in-service availability, is of major importance to the ADATS Delivery Team. From the Falklands to the Outer Hebrides and in many other, often remote locations, the ADATS Delivery Team is responsible for the through-life management of current air defence and air traffic systems. This includes providing surveillance capability to support military operations and enabling a safe, cost effective capability for air traffic control."
More DE&S outsourcing then... Isn't this a function the Delivery Team should be doing themselves?