BBC2 Tonight, 22 September: BoB from a "New perspective".
There was I believe in the event of an invasion force aproaching or landing for the use of chemical weapons including mustard gas from spray aircraft.
This has been quietly missed in most documentaries.
Air pig
This has been quietly missed in most documentaries.
Air pig
AP - check out Chapter 5 - appears you are right.
Wapedia - Wiki: British anti-invasion preparations of World War II
Wapedia - Wiki: British anti-invasion preparations of World War II
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At least real choo-choos didn't seem to be concerned by 'leaves on the line', 'the wrong kind of snow' or 'engineering work' in those days.
Apart from Gordon's little difficulties, that is.
A shame that the Rev Awdry's books weren't published until May 1945 - a few spoof documents, left lying about for Nazi spies to find, detailing the defences of the Island of Sodor would have been fun!
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etna
23rd Sept dawn - 1400 hrs. The RAF had lost 237 planes out 1048 (167 fighters and 70 bombers), and the navy had suffered enough losses such that it was keeping its BBs and CVs back
"Back" -- where US or UK aircraft carriers would be in a any future war with a first class power.
Got to keep the cap. ships fleet in being, don't you understand?
23rd Sept dawn - 1400 hrs. The RAF had lost 237 planes out 1048 (167 fighters and 70 bombers), and the navy had suffered enough losses such that it was keeping its BBs and CVs back
"Back" -- where US or UK aircraft carriers would be in a any future war with a first class power.
Got to keep the cap. ships fleet in being, don't you understand?
ME:
No doubt what the Vichy French told themselves when they parked theirs at Oran. I would contend that the RN has shown somewhat more willingness to put theirs at risk than others. That policy has failed spectacularly at times it is true but long term has paid off. I rather suspect that they would have reverted to type in this scenario, though handing themselves on a plate to the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine would not accord with that tradition.
Got to keep the cap. ships fleet in being, don't you understand?
Would liked to known more about what Squadron Leader Felkin fand his team found out from evesdropping on the prisioners conversations. I do know Knickebein was discovered this way and a lot of thought by Air Ministry Scientific Intelligence ( There's a contradiction in terms) led by Dr R V Jones.
Regards
Air pig
Regards
Air pig
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... Some reports put down the discovery of Knickebein was through the intercepts of enemy coded radio xmissions - together with recovery of downed knickebein equiped a/c -
The tragedy of having advanced knowledge being that through
fear of disclosing that enemy codes had been compromised - no defences were put up - resulting in Coventry allowed to be bombed to destruction.
....
The tragedy of having advanced knowledge being that through
fear of disclosing that enemy codes had been compromised - no defences were put up - resulting in Coventry allowed to be bombed to destruction.
....
Hi Pasir
Also, an educated guess had to be made about the frequency modulation for the night of the Coventry raid. The first intimation came from evesdropping on Luftwaffe prisioners sent R V Jones and his scientific intellegence team on the track of the adapted Lorenz blind landing system which was turned into Knickebein. A feret flight by Wing Commander Bufton and Sgt McKie in an Anson found the Knickebein transmissions near Splading in Lincolnshire. The flight only happened on te direct orders of Winston Churchill, after a diagreement over radio wave propagation.
I don't know if the original hint came from the Oslo report, a document that came into the hands of British intellegence outlining German scientific advances.
Regards
Air pig
Also, an educated guess had to be made about the frequency modulation for the night of the Coventry raid. The first intimation came from evesdropping on Luftwaffe prisioners sent R V Jones and his scientific intellegence team on the track of the adapted Lorenz blind landing system which was turned into Knickebein. A feret flight by Wing Commander Bufton and Sgt McKie in an Anson found the Knickebein transmissions near Splading in Lincolnshire. The flight only happened on te direct orders of Winston Churchill, after a diagreement over radio wave propagation.
I don't know if the original hint came from the Oslo report, a document that came into the hands of British intellegence outlining German scientific advances.
Regards
Air pig
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...Hi HP The points you nention all fit into the picture -Incidentally The evesdropping procedure was vividly portrayed in the 1957 film - 'The one that got away' -the true account of a Luftwaffe PoW who proved most industrious in escaping - giving the British considerable trouble - A film well worth watching when it comes around.
...
...
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The problem of using Intelligence without revealing its source also occured after the Bismarck sinking in 1941.
Enigma decrypts had revealed the locations of all six German supply ships that were to be used for this operation. Of course if you sink the lot the Germans will become suspicious, so it was decided to sink five of them and leave the other one alone. In addition it must appear that the ships were found in normal search operations, so usually an aircraft would be sent first. In this way when the supply ships were reporting they were being attacked they would mention they were discovered by a 'wheeled aircraft', for example. The selected five ships were duly sunk but as luck would have it the sixth ship was discovered in the normal course of events and dispatched.
Fortunately, despite much discussion, the Germans did not believe that Enigma was compromised and we could continue to read decrypts, and won the war!
Enigma decrypts had revealed the locations of all six German supply ships that were to be used for this operation. Of course if you sink the lot the Germans will become suspicious, so it was decided to sink five of them and leave the other one alone. In addition it must appear that the ships were found in normal search operations, so usually an aircraft would be sent first. In this way when the supply ships were reporting they were being attacked they would mention they were discovered by a 'wheeled aircraft', for example. The selected five ships were duly sunk but as luck would have it the sixth ship was discovered in the normal course of events and dispatched.
Fortunately, despite much discussion, the Germans did not believe that Enigma was compromised and we could continue to read decrypts, and won the war!
The German Kreigsmarine were at the end of the war trying to develop a a ten rotor enigma machine, even when they increased their enigma machines to four rotors and used I think the Triton or Neptune codes. Bletchley for many months were unable to carck the code in a timely manner. Only when the Collossus computer was in service the decryption was speeded up. The way Enigma was cracked by a lot of hard work by some brilliant people and many others in the information chain from intercept radio operators to the people who worked in the huts at Bletchley, whose story has been told only in recent years.
Some Enigma codes were broken by people useing repeditive codes to set the rotors and using repeditive obsenities as the key start to test code before information transmission. This did apply to some SS units involved in murder operations on the eastern fronts, when reporting who many they had murdered that day.
The balance between knowledge of your enemies action by intercept cryptography and counter measures is a difficult problem even today and the use of Special LiasionUnits at main command levels helped to secure the secret. Dowding was a recipient of Enigma traffic analysis.
Regards.
Air pig.
Some Enigma codes were broken by people useing repeditive codes to set the rotors and using repeditive obsenities as the key start to test code before information transmission. This did apply to some SS units involved in murder operations on the eastern fronts, when reporting who many they had murdered that day.
The balance between knowledge of your enemies action by intercept cryptography and counter measures is a difficult problem even today and the use of Special LiasionUnits at main command levels helped to secure the secret. Dowding was a recipient of Enigma traffic analysis.
Regards.
Air pig.
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Hipper
You think that that was difficult! Look at the fun and games Blinker Hall had when attempting to hide the source of the Zimmerman Telegram (which I consider to be one of the greatest single intelligence coups of all time....)
You think that that was difficult! Look at the fun and games Blinker Hall had when attempting to hide the source of the Zimmerman Telegram (which I consider to be one of the greatest single intelligence coups of all time....)
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B o B Ground Engagement
Apologies for the slight thread drift but the local news media in Kent have today been marking the anniversary of an interesting Battle of Britain story - The Battle of Graveney Marsh is said to be the last action involving a foreign invading force on British soil.
On 27th September 1940 a Junkers 88 was forced down and the crew used their weapons to try to stop the aircraft, and its new type of bombsight, being inspected before they could destroy it.
After surrendering they were taken to the nearby Sportsman Inn at Seasalter where a plaque commemorating the event has just been unveiled.
A George Medal was awarded to Captain Cantopher who disarmed the demolition charge set on the aircraft.
Battle of Graveney Marsh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On 27th September 1940 a Junkers 88 was forced down and the crew used their weapons to try to stop the aircraft, and its new type of bombsight, being inspected before they could destroy it.
After surrendering they were taken to the nearby Sportsman Inn at Seasalter where a plaque commemorating the event has just been unveiled.
A George Medal was awarded to Captain Cantopher who disarmed the demolition charge set on the aircraft.
Battle of Graveney Marsh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
