Puma Incedent Stanford Training Area
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As an ex-crewman I'd say that every crewman has at some time or another and to some level of "severity" opened the door and had to restrain some overzealous squaddie, I know I have. Nothing close to this level of tragedy but one of those "Good job I saw him or...." moments.
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t_b_s
my brother in law was sat next to the Major on the sortie, I will get in touch with him and see if he remembers who he was.
CS
my brother in law was sat next to the Major on the sortie, I will get in touch with him and see if he remembers who he was.
CS
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Redcoatgreenjacket.
Gents, please be gentle with boy syrup, he was trying to find the name of the Major who so tragically died. I just want to make sure that his contribution to service, is recognised on the Arboretum as i wish to visit sometime. Sorry i did not realise the effect it could have on those involved.
Redcoatgreenjacket.
Redcoatgreenjacket.
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Just to clarify some points
It was definitely a 230 aircraft
It was as black as a witches doo dah that night.
The 3rd Staffordshires, a TA regiment were on the second day of an already grueling excercise. They had already completed a 25Km route march earlier that day and were going out in patrols to cover a similar distance that night.
The Major concerned was newly promoted and as Company Commander was keen to show his boss and the regular army command observing the exercise what he could do.
All troops were given stage one drills before the first of the heli lifts in the afternoon. All troops practiced two run through drills on and off the aircraft, were briefed with doors closed and 'silence' by the crewmen on all emergency procedures and procedures specific to the puma. Every person in the Regiment was given drills, with the exception of one person who was 'too busy, but I have been on the Puma before', you guessed it, the new Company Commander, The Major.
Diablo Rouge
The doors were not opened at about 300 ft. Where did you get that one from ? 300 ft was not the standard landing procedure at the time. The doors were opened at exactly 200ft iaw the sop call on finals, '200ft less than 60kts - clear doors'........'roger clear doors Captain!' was the reply.
For the OP the aircraft was in the standard descent not the hover.
As soon as the guy stepped out after the initial commotion the aircraft continued in the descent to the T and a WO on board, who put his arm out to stop the next squaddie going after the Major, was briefed to do a line search with the troops back along the approach path. Meanwhils the aircraft was brought to the hover with only the three crew on board, and the handling pilot flew backwards up the approach path to exactly 200ft, and established the hover with the five lights of the NATO T in as near as possible the same position he could recall when the Crewman first screamed the soldier had gone. the nightsun was illuminated at that point and the crew found the Major on the ground within 3 minutes. The aircraft landed alongside him. The handling pilot in the right hand seat gave control to the Captain in the left and climbed out the aircraft to assist the Crewman. the major was loaded on to the floor of the Puma and the full radio pack he was carrying taken off him, and internal lights switched on whilst the handling pilot and crewman tried to give resuscitation to the Major, whom could not be declared dead, after a few minutes , responsibility was given to the crewman to continue the resuscitation and the handling pilot jumped back in the RHS and flew the short distance to the barracks, where another crew had already started another Puma to transport the Major to Ely hospital, as the Puma involved did not have sufficient fuel.
The aircraft was shut down, locked and declared impounded by the crew. The army however, quite surprised that it was a Major involved, wanted the aircraft unlocked so they could have the radio back that belonged to them. The crew were forced to oblige and the radio returned from the floor in the back of the aircraft.
The crewman, who was an excellent operator, and handling pilot were given a fairly rough time the following day by civpol. The handling pilot was told without any form of legal representation or top cover, that if it was found that the Major was thrown out of the aircraft because of any form of gross handling error then he would be going down for a long time for manslaughter. The Captain, tried to step in and take all the heat off the crewman and handling pilot, but despite telling the police it was his responsibility as he was the captain, the police said to him, 'did you have any part in flying the aircraft', he replied 'no' and they said 'well we are not interested in interviewing you!!'
The coroners inquest was lengthy and thorough and the crew were found to have complied with procedures exactly, and that those procedures did not need changing.
The one Moral of the story...if anyone ever tells you they are too busy or too important to have a safety brief, then tell them they can call a taxi, because they wont be getting on your aircraft.
I have his name, it is in my log book, but that is in a box in the garage.
Well I guess that is my moniker outed then, as I was the handling pilot!
Jayteeto, no offence taken mate, that was the name on my badge!
ps, sorry for the fact that neither the quote function, or quote marks or speech marks are working for me it seems.
Edited because i have got the speech mark key working again! '''''
It was definitely a 230 aircraft
It was as black as a witches doo dah that night.
The 3rd Staffordshires, a TA regiment were on the second day of an already grueling excercise. They had already completed a 25Km route march earlier that day and were going out in patrols to cover a similar distance that night.
The Major concerned was newly promoted and as Company Commander was keen to show his boss and the regular army command observing the exercise what he could do.
All troops were given stage one drills before the first of the heli lifts in the afternoon. All troops practiced two run through drills on and off the aircraft, were briefed with doors closed and 'silence' by the crewmen on all emergency procedures and procedures specific to the puma. Every person in the Regiment was given drills, with the exception of one person who was 'too busy, but I have been on the Puma before', you guessed it, the new Company Commander, The Major.
Diablo Rouge
The doors were not opened at about 300 ft. Where did you get that one from ? 300 ft was not the standard landing procedure at the time. The doors were opened at exactly 200ft iaw the sop call on finals, '200ft less than 60kts - clear doors'........'roger clear doors Captain!' was the reply.
For the OP the aircraft was in the standard descent not the hover.
As soon as the guy stepped out after the initial commotion the aircraft continued in the descent to the T and a WO on board, who put his arm out to stop the next squaddie going after the Major, was briefed to do a line search with the troops back along the approach path. Meanwhils the aircraft was brought to the hover with only the three crew on board, and the handling pilot flew backwards up the approach path to exactly 200ft, and established the hover with the five lights of the NATO T in as near as possible the same position he could recall when the Crewman first screamed the soldier had gone. the nightsun was illuminated at that point and the crew found the Major on the ground within 3 minutes. The aircraft landed alongside him. The handling pilot in the right hand seat gave control to the Captain in the left and climbed out the aircraft to assist the Crewman. the major was loaded on to the floor of the Puma and the full radio pack he was carrying taken off him, and internal lights switched on whilst the handling pilot and crewman tried to give resuscitation to the Major, whom could not be declared dead, after a few minutes , responsibility was given to the crewman to continue the resuscitation and the handling pilot jumped back in the RHS and flew the short distance to the barracks, where another crew had already started another Puma to transport the Major to Ely hospital, as the Puma involved did not have sufficient fuel.
The aircraft was shut down, locked and declared impounded by the crew. The army however, quite surprised that it was a Major involved, wanted the aircraft unlocked so they could have the radio back that belonged to them. The crew were forced to oblige and the radio returned from the floor in the back of the aircraft.
The crewman, who was an excellent operator, and handling pilot were given a fairly rough time the following day by civpol. The handling pilot was told without any form of legal representation or top cover, that if it was found that the Major was thrown out of the aircraft because of any form of gross handling error then he would be going down for a long time for manslaughter. The Captain, tried to step in and take all the heat off the crewman and handling pilot, but despite telling the police it was his responsibility as he was the captain, the police said to him, 'did you have any part in flying the aircraft', he replied 'no' and they said 'well we are not interested in interviewing you!!'
The coroners inquest was lengthy and thorough and the crew were found to have complied with procedures exactly, and that those procedures did not need changing.
The one Moral of the story...if anyone ever tells you they are too busy or too important to have a safety brief, then tell them they can call a taxi, because they wont be getting on your aircraft.
I have his name, it is in my log book, but that is in a box in the garage.
Well I guess that is my moniker outed then, as I was the handling pilot!
Jayteeto, no offence taken mate, that was the name on my badge!
ps, sorry for the fact that neither the quote function, or quote marks or speech marks are working for me it seems.
Edited because i have got the speech mark key working again! '''''
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Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
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Thanks, hope you are keeping well and still making a good living. Everyone around at the time knew that it wasn't your fault. Singapore?? You an expat now?
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The one Moral of the story...if anyone ever tells you they are too busy or too important to have a safety brief, then tell them they can call a taxi, because they wont be getting on your aircraft.
The behaviour of the police was totally normal. I have witnessed exactly the same in various incidents and I guess that is just the way they do things. I am not judging or moralising, but my advice to anyone caught up in similar circumstances is keep your gob shut (irrespective of the type of caution) until your brief arrives.
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The behaviour of the police was totally normal. I have witnessed exactly the same in various incidents and I guess that is just the way they do things. I am not judging or moralising, but my advice to anyone caught up in similar circumstances is keep your gob shut (irrespective of the type of caution) until your brief arrives.
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Jayteeto
Not one of the three of us ever felt any of our colleagues thought anything like that. Support from the top was missed a little, support from our mates was incredible.
Yep, 100% out of it mate!!
antisthenes
I am pretty sure I will be there this year (is it the 19th?). It will be a long weekend because on the 20th is Michelle\\\'s memorial dinner, I think after Fri I will be taking the train up for that
. New liver booked at the Chelsea and Westminster already!
No stint on TV, but just walking with Dragons
The old fat one
never a wiser word said. Stay quiet, say nothing and don\\\'t be intimidated. 99% of people incriminate themselves, just use your right to say nothing! Wish I knew all this wise stuff 20 odd years ago!
Not one of the three of us ever felt any of our colleagues thought anything like that. Support from the top was missed a little, support from our mates was incredible.
Yep, 100% out of it mate!!
antisthenes
I am pretty sure I will be there this year (is it the 19th?). It will be a long weekend because on the 20th is Michelle\\\'s memorial dinner, I think after Fri I will be taking the train up for that
. New liver booked at the Chelsea and Westminster already!No stint on TV, but just walking with Dragons
The old fat one
never a wiser word said. Stay quiet, say nothing and don\\\'t be intimidated. 99% of people incriminate themselves, just use your right to say nothing! Wish I knew all this wise stuff 20 odd years ago!
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I do plan to break my duck and attend, but either myself or Neil A will have to be on shift. I think it is his days off, so it looks like next year....
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Long long time ago, but Henry09 is pretty accurate in what he says. Have not flown a Helo in 18 years, but in those days was the Training Officer on 230 and was in the LHS that night.
Not a pleasant experience and a shock to all. It took us few minutes to find him, even with the Nightsun at 20ft. When we did, his rifle (a SLR in those days) was bent. Unfortunately, it was possibly the nav light shining off the (not normally fitted) nightsun that may have given the impression that we were on the ground. Indeed, there were nearly more; some Officer Cadets could not find the seatbelts, so they linked arms! One was half way out when they were pulled back.
I will never forget the CM saying "ones gone" at 175ft, just like the "8 dropped", "7 chutes" ref a PGI in California later in my time as a C130 Flt Cdr. Days to forget, yet can't.
Overall, an interesting det from RAFG; got stuck at Wattisham on the way and were suitably entertained by the fellow Tigers there. Later took a bird through the lower windscreen and when that was being fixed, a set of stepladders through the upper one via the downdraught of an OCU Puma!
Anyway, want to know the truth? PM me.
Me
Not a pleasant experience and a shock to all. It took us few minutes to find him, even with the Nightsun at 20ft. When we did, his rifle (a SLR in those days) was bent. Unfortunately, it was possibly the nav light shining off the (not normally fitted) nightsun that may have given the impression that we were on the ground. Indeed, there were nearly more; some Officer Cadets could not find the seatbelts, so they linked arms! One was half way out when they were pulled back.
I will never forget the CM saying "ones gone" at 175ft, just like the "8 dropped", "7 chutes" ref a PGI in California later in my time as a C130 Flt Cdr. Days to forget, yet can't.
Overall, an interesting det from RAFG; got stuck at Wattisham on the way and were suitably entertained by the fellow Tigers there. Later took a bird through the lower windscreen and when that was being fixed, a set of stepladders through the upper one via the downdraught of an OCU Puma!
Anyway, want to know the truth? PM me.
Me
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Mate , how are you? Been trying to get in touch by other means. Have you also had a name change?
Anyway what do you mean, 'want to know the truth' pm me?
Isnt it the truth? or is altzheimers setting in.
Why don't you go to the Puma Reunion this year! You would enjoy it, plenty of old knackers to have a beer with, it's a great do. Bye the way 50th anniversary of the Tigers next year. Much partying organised and even older knackers will be in attendance!
you know who
Check pm's
So now we are just missing Bratty on here and then we have the full crew. Where are you Bratty?
Anyway what do you mean, 'want to know the truth' pm me?
Isnt it the truth? or is altzheimers setting in.
Why don't you go to the Puma Reunion this year! You would enjoy it, plenty of old knackers to have a beer with, it's a great do. Bye the way 50th anniversary of the Tigers next year. Much partying organised and even older knackers will be in attendance!
you know who
Check pm's
So now we are just missing Bratty on here and then we have the full crew. Where are you Bratty?
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Henry
PM back.
The truth comment is not aimed at you, but for others to contact me if they want. Normally, I would not be a good candidate for Poirot or Taggart as I can hardly remember my own name, but this I do.
Would love to meet up at the reunion, but, where and when please?
Me
PM back.
The truth comment is not aimed at you, but for others to contact me if they want. Normally, I would not be a good candidate for Poirot or Taggart as I can hardly remember my own name, but this I do.
Would love to meet up at the reunion, but, where and when please?
Me
