Russian subs stalk Trident
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Back in the day
Of course, some of us T/A chaps remember when our Nimrod chums sent out the special "Stealth" variant at weekends and Christmas... (very effectively undetectable).
But we appreciated you all the same. Meanwhile, it's high time the Great Brit Public were told our island is in ASW peril. Again.
But we appreciated you all the same. Meanwhile, it's high time the Great Brit Public were told our island is in ASW peril. Again.
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Of course, some of us T/A chaps remember when our Nimrod chums sent out the special "Stealth" variant at weekends and Christmas... (very effectively undetectable).
Quote:
Of course, some of us T/A chaps remember when our Nimrod chums sent out the special "Stealth" variant at weekends and Christmas... (very effectively undetectable).
Of course, some of us T/A chaps remember when our Nimrod chums sent out the special "Stealth" variant at weekends and Christmas... (very effectively undetectable).
Plenty of Christmas and weekend flying done by Nimrods - perhaps you just couldn't find them?
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Lots of people are hanging their hats on this and other stories to hopefully save the Nimrod, but lets not forget that Liam Fox has said "we need to move away from cold war thinking" and that certain capabilities will be lost that we have previously maintained for a long time!
If that Navy story isn't cold war thinking and the capability gap isn't ASW then I am very much mistaken.
Watch out chaps.
If that Navy story isn't cold war thinking and the capability gap isn't ASW then I am very much mistaken.
Watch out chaps.
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Jayand.
So, are you saying that the new trident boats (and thus trident) are going to be axed?
Cold war or not, it will be of no use to spend shed loads of cash on new subs, if they cannot make it safely out of port!
Subs and ASW go hand in hand, and one cannot exist without the other. Its a funny old world...We keep our carriers, but have no organic aircraft to fly from them, but scrap Nimrod, even though it can do its job, is paid for, and has crews/logistics in place.
So, are you saying that the new trident boats (and thus trident) are going to be axed?
Cold war or not, it will be of no use to spend shed loads of cash on new subs, if they cannot make it safely out of port!
Subs and ASW go hand in hand, and one cannot exist without the other. Its a funny old world...We keep our carriers, but have no organic aircraft to fly from them, but scrap Nimrod, even though it can do its job, is paid for, and has crews/logistics in place.
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There's nothing to worry about, after all we can always trust our honest, reliable, hard working politicians. I'm sure Dr Liam Fox is an expert on the protection of the nuclear deterrent!
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. . . they'll have a multi-coloured spreadsheet somewhere that indicates the balance of probabilities is that all the money on Defence is actually wasted.
Absolutely no real requirement for an MP aircraft (don't we live on an island?)
Of course, everything is OK . . . right up to the point when it isn't.
Hmmm, that seems familiar.
Absolutely no real requirement for an MP aircraft (don't we live on an island?)
Of course, everything is OK . . . right up to the point when it isn't.
Hmmm, that seems familiar.
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I can see how financial pain means we simply cannot afford the armed forces we have now, even though most people on here (at least) probably regard 'what we have now' as painfully short of what is needed.
It would be nice if somebody could persuade the government to carry out a review of their own thinking, along with the defence review...perhaps they might produce a fairly straightforward document in plain english that outlined what they themselves could commit UK forces to in the future. There's little point, in my mind, in deciding what forces we can afford if the politicians continue to expect those forces to punch above their weight having been pared to the bone.
I LIKE looking at CVs, but what's the point of a couple of carriers if you can't afford all the other ships you need to surround them with?
It would be nice if somebody could persuade the government to carry out a review of their own thinking, along with the defence review...perhaps they might produce a fairly straightforward document in plain english that outlined what they themselves could commit UK forces to in the future. There's little point, in my mind, in deciding what forces we can afford if the politicians continue to expect those forces to punch above their weight having been pared to the bone.
I LIKE looking at CVs, but what's the point of a couple of carriers if you can't afford all the other ships you need to surround them with?
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Having a Nimrod is like having an insurance policy, what the politicians have got to decide is whether it is worth paying the premiums for something that is extremely unlikely to ever concievably be needed.
If you don't think you need it and the Navy say they can manage on their own (as they will be doing so as to protect their own kit) and the Airforce chiefs are willing to offer up a sacrificial lamb from outside the sharp and pointy fleets, then really the kipper fleet should be very worried!
I have heard all the arguments about Kinloss being leased land and too expensive to return to original state, have heard about the project already having been paid for etc, etc but all these things are insignificant to the powers that be.
Unfortunately the troubled recent history of the Mk2, the desperate cuts needed and the rhetoric about slashing legacy/cold war projects and capability all point towards the Nimrod and the chopping block to me.
I hope I am wrong but have a niggling feeling I am not.
If you don't think you need it and the Navy say they can manage on their own (as they will be doing so as to protect their own kit) and the Airforce chiefs are willing to offer up a sacrificial lamb from outside the sharp and pointy fleets, then really the kipper fleet should be very worried!
I have heard all the arguments about Kinloss being leased land and too expensive to return to original state, have heard about the project already having been paid for etc, etc but all these things are insignificant to the powers that be.
Unfortunately the troubled recent history of the Mk2, the desperate cuts needed and the rhetoric about slashing legacy/cold war projects and capability all point towards the Nimrod and the chopping block to me.
I hope I am wrong but have a niggling feeling I am not.
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Fantom:
You know me so well!
Jayland:
Extremely unlikely that Nimrods will be needed?
COS recently flew in MRA4 apparently, and commented that it was without doubt his best ISTAR asset. I just hope he's managed to get the message across to the decision makers. Don't forget, only a small percentage of Nimrod tasking is ASW, albeit protection of our SSBN's is their highest priority.
You know me so well!
Jayland:
Extremely unlikely that Nimrods will be needed?
COS recently flew in MRA4 apparently, and commented that it was without doubt his best ISTAR asset. I just hope he's managed to get the message across to the decision makers. Don't forget, only a small percentage of Nimrod tasking is ASW, albeit protection of our SSBN's is their highest priority.
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Was this a secret "recent" flight? as no MRA 4 has been flying recently, that I know of anyway
Pingdit, the ASW tasking is the only thing that can save them as there are other platforms that can, and are carrying out the other ISTAR tasks just fine.
Sar however is another matter but I don't think anyone at MOD or the treasury gives a **** about that.
Pingdit, the ASW tasking is the only thing that can save them as there are other platforms that can, and are carrying out the other ISTAR tasks just fine.
Sar however is another matter but I don't think anyone at MOD or the treasury gives a **** about that.
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The evidence points to just one thing....
Gov't will not fund Trident replacement unless out of current MOD Budget.
Allows them to blame military if deemed too expensive against desired military capability.
Save £24 Bn.
No Trident - no Nimrod replacement needed.
Save cost of Nimrod MR4
No MR4 - Close ISK
Save more money.
Need a surface picture?
Use Sentry - funded because Sentry is a NATO commitment.
SAR Top cover - contract out with rest of SAR cover.
ASW for fleet - Use RN helos.
Or am I off the mark?
Gov't will not fund Trident replacement unless out of current MOD Budget.
Allows them to blame military if deemed too expensive against desired military capability.
Save £24 Bn.
No Trident - no Nimrod replacement needed.
Save cost of Nimrod MR4
No MR4 - Close ISK
Save more money.
Need a surface picture?
Use Sentry - funded because Sentry is a NATO commitment.
SAR Top cover - contract out with rest of SAR cover.
ASW for fleet - Use RN helos.
Or am I off the mark?
