F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
A quick question regarding the F-35B specifically
The technology behind, and the stability of the vertical landing phase looks superb.
However, where exactly do the two roll posts efflux out of the wings for stability? Do under wing stores positions have any impact on these roll posts effectiveness, or does the efflux impinge on what stores can be mounted on which pylons?
Just an engineering curiosity on my part that hopefully someone with a better understanding may be able to shed some light on.
However, where exactly do the two roll posts efflux out of the wings for stability? Do under wing stores positions have any impact on these roll posts effectiveness, or does the efflux impinge on what stores can be mounted on which pylons?
Just an engineering curiosity on my part that hopefully someone with a better understanding may be able to shed some light on.
EM/CM - The SE and JSF are very different as far as development is concerned. The main new bits on the SE are the conformal weapon bays. The external aerodynamics/mass &c are the same as the existing CFTs, so testing an F-15E and firing an AMRAAM does help clear up the remaining unknowns. I suspect that other RCS measures have been tested here and there.
Otherwise, a lot of the new stuff on SE - AESA, Mk 2 helmet, BAE EW system - is already extant or in full-scale development for Saudi.
EM - How use would the Sniper or JSF EOTS be today?
Weather Forecast - North Korea, KR - Local & Long Range | Weather Underground
Note... that is just a snapshot for April 5. But it drives home the point that this ain't Iraq.
HQ - The roll posts are located at the wing-body junction. Supposedly they don't interfere with the inboard pylons... but then, the F-35 KPP does not call for the ability to VL with anything other than internal stores. Some interesting questions have been raised about an asymmetric hung-store case and whether the roll posts have the authority needed to counter that and provide control.
Otherwise, a lot of the new stuff on SE - AESA, Mk 2 helmet, BAE EW system - is already extant or in full-scale development for Saudi.
EM - How use would the Sniper or JSF EOTS be today?
Weather Forecast - North Korea, KR - Local & Long Range | Weather Underground
Note... that is just a snapshot for April 5. But it drives home the point that this ain't Iraq.
HQ - The roll posts are located at the wing-body junction. Supposedly they don't interfere with the inboard pylons... but then, the F-35 KPP does not call for the ability to VL with anything other than internal stores. Some interesting questions have been raised about an asymmetric hung-store case and whether the roll posts have the authority needed to counter that and provide control.
Last edited by LowObservable; 5th Apr 2013 at 12:09.
eaglemmoomin,
Don't really know enough in that area to offer an opinion either way, I'm afraid. I know a Stike Eagle can get where it needs to go with its internal nav kit, but (although they seem to offer a lot) I wouldn't know what kit they might want for day 1 air-to-ground as I haven't seen the specs they're looking at for the ROK sales pitch (well, none of us have).
The only thought I can offer is that if it were the case that it couldn't at least claim to do the day 1 stuff the Koreans want, they'd have kicked it out the door in 2009.
I'd be more interested to see the crew keep all the threats head-on so that they're not displaying the barn-door radar reflector (even with canted tails)!
LO, agreed. The APG82, HMS and DEWS do look like nice kit.
It ain't Iraq in terms of weather OR threat.
Don't really know enough in that area to offer an opinion either way, I'm afraid. I know a Stike Eagle can get where it needs to go with its internal nav kit, but (although they seem to offer a lot) I wouldn't know what kit they might want for day 1 air-to-ground as I haven't seen the specs they're looking at for the ROK sales pitch (well, none of us have).
The only thought I can offer is that if it were the case that it couldn't at least claim to do the day 1 stuff the Koreans want, they'd have kicked it out the door in 2009.
I'd be more interested to see the crew keep all the threats head-on so that they're not displaying the barn-door radar reflector (even with canted tails)!
LO, agreed. The APG82, HMS and DEWS do look like nice kit.
It ain't Iraq in terms of weather OR threat.
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 5th Apr 2013 at 12:12.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,583
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes
on
45 Posts
F-35B Load Out
'HaveQuick2' store station 2/10 and 4/8 (as per graphic) carrying capacities were reduced to being able to carry only a maximum of 1,500 lbs during the SWAT (weight reduction process). I'll imagine that the 'emergency jettison' function will take care of any hung stores including the pylons being jettisoned if need be.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It will be interesting when and if Boeing releases a total cost on the ROK offer. When the f-35 clean-sheet total buy of $180M ea is very similar to 4+ gen packages
I guess the F-15se will have similar to the SH in the intake
I guess the F-15se will have similar to the SH in the intake
Last edited by JSFfan; 5th Apr 2013 at 13:38.
No idea. The only figure I ever read was $100m all in, but I think that was in the days of the single, complete package, not the split FMS/Direct Sales proposal. To be honest I'm sure they've ever deliberately revealed a figure. Interesting that they don't even feature it on their regular web site, but I guess it's specifically designed and targeted at a very specific group of potential customers.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't see it being cheaper than a SH and that's at about $150 now and that's a full production plane, there are a lot of development costs in getting the SE on the flight line
Last edited by JSFfan; 5th Apr 2013 at 13:45.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,583
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes
on
45 Posts
Between MLG door and inner pylon is the roll post
Some info on roll posts: F-35B - Roll Posts
Underneath graphic:
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/image...28237_8824.jpg
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 5th Apr 2013 at 13:56. Reason: URL
Thanks for the roll posts info. I reckon that a twin store side by side configuration on stations 3 and 9 may be a bit tight though.
You can see the outlets clearer on this photo, not too sure about the polo mint roundel though!!!
You can see the outlets clearer on this photo, not too sure about the polo mint roundel though!!!
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EM/CM - The SE and JSF are very different as far as development is concerned. The main new bits on the SE are the conformal weapon bays. The external aerodynamics/mass &c are the same as the existing CFTs, so testing an F-15E and firing an AMRAAM does help clear up the remaining unknowns. I suspect that other RCS measures have been tested here and there.
Otherwise, a lot of the new stuff on SE - AESA, Mk 2 helmet, BAE EW system - is already extant or in full-scale development for Saudi.
EM - How use would the Sniper or JSF EOTS be today?
Weather Forecast - North Korea, KR - Local & Long Range | Weather Underground
Note... that is just a snapshot for April 5. But it drives home the point that this ain't Iraq.
HQ - The roll posts are located at the wing-body junction. Supposedly they don't interfere with the inboard pylons... but then, the F-35 KPP does not call for the ability to VL with anything other than internal stores. Some interesting questions have been raised about an asymmetric hung-store case and whether the roll posts have the authority needed to counter that and provide control
Otherwise, a lot of the new stuff on SE - AESA, Mk 2 helmet, BAE EW system - is already extant or in full-scale development for Saudi.
EM - How use would the Sniper or JSF EOTS be today?
Weather Forecast - North Korea, KR - Local & Long Range | Weather Underground
Note... that is just a snapshot for April 5. But it drives home the point that this ain't Iraq.
HQ - The roll posts are located at the wing-body junction. Supposedly they don't interfere with the inboard pylons... but then, the F-35 KPP does not call for the ability to VL with anything other than internal stores. Some interesting questions have been raised about an asymmetric hung-store case and whether the roll posts have the authority needed to counter that and provide control
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK and where I'm sent!
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
eaglemmoomin,
I don't think he was talking about what the JSF might or might not have. He was responding to the sub-thread on F-15SE and indicating what that has. It seems that mentioning anything good about another airframe is seen by the JSF Religious Fanatics as an attack on the one that can do no wrong.
Calm down.
I don't think he was talking about what the JSF might or might not have. He was responding to the sub-thread on F-15SE and indicating what that has. It seems that mentioning anything good about another airframe is seen by the JSF Religious Fanatics as an attack on the one that can do no wrong.
Calm down.
Well, yes, I must admit that there is a lot of defensiveness when we mention another aircraft that might be seen as a competitor. F-15SE is a very different platform. I certainly have never proposed F-15 as an alternative in any theatre apart from ROK, and I'm only posting about it in that context to answer questions or explain what I know about it. I'm certainly not pushing it.
That said, I do wonder why a handful of folks here see the need to push the F-35 so hard as the solution to every region's needs.
That said, I do wonder why a handful of folks here see the need to push the F-35 so hard as the solution to every region's needs.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No I'm perfectly calm.
I don't think you understand. I made the point that to make the F15SE stealthy you apparently have to take off all the extremely useful pods etc that enhance the aircrafts capabilities. LO made the point that it's wet and misty in Korea.
This is an odd point to make. The whole point of fitting multiple sensors to an aircraft be it surveilance or otherwise is to give you an all aspect all weather capability. Synthetic Aperture Radar and Ground Moving Target Indicator (ie for pattern of life) modes are not effected by the weather, day light etc, an EO/IR sensor on a aircraft can 'see' a suprisingly long way away and is clearly useful for other purposes. I would also think taking the laser designator off of a strike aircraft is an odd thing to be wanting to do.
It was a very odd comment to make about an extremely useful capability, surely you want to maximise the utilty of your platform, 'taking' stuff off seems err backwards.
I don't think you understand. I made the point that to make the F15SE stealthy you apparently have to take off all the extremely useful pods etc that enhance the aircrafts capabilities. LO made the point that it's wet and misty in Korea.
This is an odd point to make. The whole point of fitting multiple sensors to an aircraft be it surveilance or otherwise is to give you an all aspect all weather capability. Synthetic Aperture Radar and Ground Moving Target Indicator (ie for pattern of life) modes are not effected by the weather, day light etc, an EO/IR sensor on a aircraft can 'see' a suprisingly long way away and is clearly useful for other purposes. I would also think taking the laser designator off of a strike aircraft is an odd thing to be wanting to do.
It was a very odd comment to make about an extremely useful capability, surely you want to maximise the utilty of your platform, 'taking' stuff off seems err backwards.
Last edited by eaglemmoomin; 5th Apr 2013 at 17:33.