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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 29th Jun 2017, 15:37
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Last edited by IcePaq; 29th Jun 2017 at 20:32.
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 02:23
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RP, there's a lot of forgetting on this thread. You're right. People like George K Sweetman who have had no tangible connection with the F-35 beyond the odd invitational to FW ("target for tonight" - how awkward that was...), but years of desktop/basement supposition, somehow know everything. They distinctly forget that F-35 will spend only a proportion of its time on internal stores only.

At least Lara hasn't got the massive chip on shoulder of her forebear. She's very good indeed.
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 05:40
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Remember the mighty F-105 had both probe and boom refuelling receptors...why not F-35?
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 06:08
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Must be an Australian airframe........

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Old 30th Jun 2017, 06:36
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Meanwhile on the slightly more boring, but expensive, money front....

JPO, Lockheed Play Fast and Loose with F-35 Costs

F-35 Unreliability Risks Strain on Pentagon Budget, Tester Says (excerpt)
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 07:18
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Genuine question intriguing me. Has any other aircraft, especially FJ in development, totalled anything like these flying hours with none (as far as I've heard) falling from the skies?

Originally Posted by CNBC 9 June 2017
...More than 220 operational F-35s have been built and delivered worldwide, and they have collectively flown more than 95,000 flight hours.
For example, how does this compare with the F-16, F/A-18 and F/A-18 E/F? I've found nothing correlating total flying hours with loss rates.

Last edited by FODPlod; 30th Jun 2017 at 07:46.
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 07:46
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You'll have to go read about the F-35A fire damage total at Eglin AFB during takeoff:

Details divulged of F-35A catastrophic engine fire

Accident Report: http://www.standard.net/attachment/2...report-pdf.pdf (2.1Mb)
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 07:53
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Originally Posted by SpazSinbad View Post
You'll have to go read about the F-35A fire damage total at Eglin AFB during takeoff:

Details divulged of F-35A catastrophic engine fire

Accident Report:http://www.standard.net/attachment/2...report-pdf.pdf (2.1Mb)
Thank you but, as I understand it, the A/C was still on the ground and the pilot walked (ran?) away so not exactly a 'flying' accident. Catastrophic but remedied fairly quickly and not really what I was looking for, i.e. "falling from the skies".
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 09:38
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So close and yet so far away (according to some) but hey Mishappily Pilot walked away - always a good thing:
"..At the correct rotation speed, the MP [mishap pilot] began to rotate, or lift the nose wheel off the ground in anticipation of takeoff. During rotation, the MA engine stalled and displayed an ENG STALL (engine stall) Integrated Caution, Advisory, Warning (ICAW) at 09:10:06L. The MP heard an audible bang and felt the aircraft decelerate about the same time the MP received the ENG STALL ICAW and the MP subsequently applied the ABORT procedure at 09:10:07L. The MP received other warnings and cautions including FIRE FIRE..."
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 12:20
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Originally Posted by FODPlod View Post
.....not really what I was looking for, i.e. "falling from the skies".

FODplod, no I can not think of a FJ program that had not had such an event (ie: crater) with this many hours. Yes we know about the ground fires. And it is operating in squadron use, at sea, in major exercises, at airshows and abroad- it does not seem to be babied any longer. Impressive. I am sure there are several who will roll out the "unsafe" and "told you so" headlines when it does happen.


The Super Hornet took awhile for the first loss (midair I believe). F-14 perhaps the shortest (flight #2)
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 12:24
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Originally Posted by sandiego89 View Post
FODplod, no I can not think of a FJ program that had not had such an event (ie: crater) with this many hours.
Has any other FJ had so many restrictions placed on it with this many hours? Genuine question. Might help explain the lack of a 'crater'.
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 15:48
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So does anyone want to take a bet on when an F-35 will score a guns kill in A2A, or when an F-35A will make a guns pass at a ground target in combat?

Or even on how much live gunnery training will be included in the standard syllabus?
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 17:43
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I guess it will use its gun when it deploys to a theatre that requires it. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya are all recent and current conflicts where guns have frequently been used in anger from all the deployed fast jet types.

Guns always fall out of fashion between conflicts but suddenly we remember how useful they are when we do deploy for real.
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Old 30th Jun 2017, 21:58
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Another LM F-35 Chief Test Pilot explanation of the PAS 2017 maneuvers:

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Old 1st Jul 2017, 18:41
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Illuminating interview with Bogdan:

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineA...urbulence.aspx
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 17:05
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Genuine question intriguing me. Has any other aircraft, especially FJ in development, totalled anything like these flying hours with none (as far as I've heard) falling from the skies?
Considering 48% are unavailable at any given time it
does skew the supposed metrics..
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Old 7th Jul 2017, 06:33
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USMC Expeditionary Advance Base Operations. Lots of interesting concepts, but scroll down to the STOVL FARP Barge.

https://marinecorpsconceptsandprogra...20(Public).pdf

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Old 7th Jul 2017, 14:34
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Thanks, ORAC...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WAwuSK36Gw
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 07:30
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What a surprise!!!!!!

Pentagon predicts F-35 program costs to jump by $27 billion: report | TheHill

The Pentagon’s F-35 fighter jet program, the most expensive program to date, is expected to jump by at least $27 billion in costs, Bloomberg reported.

The total acquisition cost for the Lockheed Martin-made F-35 is predicted to spike about 7 percent to at least $406.5 billion, according to a draft of the Selected Acquisition Report, to be submitted to Congress this week. The uptick follows several years of declining estimates. The report expected the current cost of $379 billion from a previous high of $398.5 billion in early 2014.

F-35 program spokesman Joe DellaVedova didn’t immediately respond to Bloomberg on the cost estimate increase. The Joint Strike Fighter program office typically waits until the report is formally released to Congress before commenting.

Delayed testing could be one reason for the increase. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) in April released a report that said “cascading F-35 testing delays” could add more than $1 billion to the cost of the program......
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 08:19
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Some response here with USMC adding an extra 13 F-35Bs to total buy which is incorrectly recorded as extra F-35Cs in the SAR table seen here:
"...Some of the acquisition cost increases come from the Air Force’s decision to whack the size of its maximum annual purchase of F-35As from 80 per year down to 60, stretching the service’s planned purchases by six years. The Total Program Cost Estimate rose by $11 billion, a substantial portion of the $27.5 billion acquisition cost increase...." Marines Add 13 Bs To F-35 Buy; Acquisition Costs Rise « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary
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