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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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Old 5th Apr 2015, 22:07
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Originally Posted by orca
I personally found the story of test pilots engaged in air-to-air work brilliant. Haven't laughed so much in weeks. Test pilots! In combat training! Fabulous. I thought wind ups were a thing of the past, and they even got it into the press. Well done to all concerned!
orca,

As a member of SETP I have to respond. With 187 combat missions in the F-4 in SEA and and three year operational tour RAF Lakenheath, I was selected to attend the USAF Test Pilot School. After flying system and weapons testing in the F-15 at Eglin AFB, I was selected to join the Navy Operational Test squadron, VX-4, at NAS Point Mugu, where I did operational testing on the F-14 and F/A-18 including tactics development for mixed F-14-F/A-18 formations.

Sooo it is quite possible that the Operational Test Pilots who flew these missions where capable of making some kind of judgement on the capability of the F-35; meager as that might be.
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 08:44
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And, having made that judgement, they can scratch their unworldly grey matter and arrive at a considered opinion as to whether I was serious or not.
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 10:23
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Thumbs up

Touchy ain't they.......
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 14:04
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Hey -We have big watches and big egos to protect.
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Old 6th Apr 2015, 20:44
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big watches and big egos
Obviously a compensation measure
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Old 7th Apr 2015, 12:42
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F135 Fix Nears Completion As Production Ramps Up | Defense content from Aviation Week
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Old 7th Apr 2015, 13:45
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The fix that isn't a fix......
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Old 7th Apr 2015, 14:50
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Well it does seem to be an awfully long drawn out remedial process( that in fact is not the final solution) that we were led to believe would be ready last December..
The comments in the article seem completely fair and well worth taking on board.

The projects big problem, as I can see it, is any technical superiority the airframe had to start with has been completely eroded by both the failure of the prime contractors to deliver on time (we won't go near budget) and the quality of the opposition to develop counters to the airframe technology...
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Old 7th Apr 2015, 16:40
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Much the same as transonic roll-off, where the "fix" is presumably to stay out of the zone where it happens.

"Doctor, my back goes into spasm when I bend over to tie my shoes."

"Here's a prescription for a pair of loafers. Next patient, nurse!"

The question is whether and how it is being demonstrated that the excess flex is not going to cause other problems over the engine's projected lifetime.
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Old 8th Apr 2015, 04:50
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The engine maker also aims to define a long-term solution by the middle of this summer
It's obviously not a fix if they still don't know how to fix it..

I'm offering 20/1 that their 'definition' (by July/August...lol) is nowhere near definitive. Any takers?
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Old 8th Apr 2015, 17:14
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The engine maker also aims to define a long-term solution by the middle of this summer
It's obviously not a fix if they still don't know how to fix it..
They know how to fix it with some help, concession from the customers.
The concession is adding more weight. So without the weight concession, I can't imagine what the fix might be.

The basic F135 engine design for the F-35 came from the F119 engine for the F-22 fighter. Both engines have about the same diameter, the F135 is 17 inches longer than the F119, mainly to accommodate one more LPT stage than the F119 has. The dry weight of the F135 is 150 pounds more than the F119, but with the aerodynamic changes to the fan and additional LPT stage, it produces 8,000 pounds of additional thrust in afterburner than does the F119.

However, that additional thrust is really needed to power the overweight F-35 aircraft. Adding engine weight to stiffen the engine backbone to stop flexing diminishes engine thrust to weigh ratio. Thrust to weight ratio can usually be improved upon by increasing turbine temperatures, but the turbines are already running at max or too hot which decreases turbine component life. So you see the probable dilemma.
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Old 8th Apr 2015, 18:51
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Pity they don't have an alternate engine. Ohh, wait.........
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Old 8th Apr 2015, 21:20
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If the "fix" is so good, as they claim in the article, why is it only interim?

Why do I feel that my tax Euros are not earning me a completely honest picture?
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Old 8th Apr 2015, 21:29
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Because not a single cent of your Tax Euros is honestly spent? Which is why the EU's auditors haven't signed off the accounts for the last 19 years.
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Old 8th Apr 2015, 23:49
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I've just been looking at the spec for the T-X (T-38) replacement, and it has F-16D written all over it. I suspect, again my cynical side, that once the T-X (New model F-16) wins then the F-35 buy will plummet.
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 00:39
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And yet no one, not even Lockheed, is proposing an F-16 for T-X...
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 10:28
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U.S. Marines Prep for F-35B Ops Trials on USS Wasp | Defense content from Aviation Week
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 10:43
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Operators will assess the ability of the fighter to function not only on takeoff and landing, but also in navigating around the deck and in the belly of the ship, where maintenance operations take place.

“This exercise will evaluate the full spectrum of F-35B measures of suitability and effectiveness to the maximum extent possible,”
Hard hitting stuff....
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 11:21
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“This exercise will evaluate the full spectrum of F-35B measures of suitability and effectiveness to the maximum extent possible."

This sentence appears to be internally contradictory, at once saying the exercise "will evaluate the full spectrum" but then qualifying "full" with "to the maximum extent possible".

This is like telling you that you can drive off with any car in the Porsche showroom as long as it doesn't cost more than $5,000.

I predict that the test will fully accomplish its goal, which will be to generate >3 concurrent sorties on one day for an audience of media and Congressional people. This should be doable with a half-dozen jets picked from a designated group of cherry-picked, fresh-off-the-mod-line aircraft.
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Old 9th Apr 2015, 13:56
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"Because not a single cent of your Tax Euros is honestly spent? Which is why
the EU's auditors haven't signed off the accounts for the last 19 years. "
Somebodies been reading too much torygraph or daily fail... https://fullfact.org/factchecks/has_...18_years-28593
Auditing the EU accounts | Second reading
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_ECA-13-36_en.htm
Apologies for the off topic but there's too many lies easily thrown around on this subject and some balance is required. The accounts lie being one of the biggest.
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