F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
Stick one in a Galaxy and have it towed up and down past the screaming crowd at Farnborough?
Quote:
Stick one in a Galaxy and have it towed up and down past the screaming crowd at Farnborough? It does make you wonder why, given the PR importance of the aircraft making it to this side of the pond and the challenges of ferrying single-engine and short-legged 'developmental' aircraft over the Atlantic, they didn't opt to ship them over via C-17/C-5 well ahead of time in the first place.
Stick one in a Galaxy and have it towed up and down past the screaming crowd at Farnborough? It does make you wonder why, given the PR importance of the aircraft making it to this side of the pond and the challenges of ferrying single-engine and short-legged 'developmental' aircraft over the Atlantic, they didn't opt to ship them over via C-17/C-5 well ahead of time in the first place.
Perhaps because it won't fit in a C-17 or C-5. 35 foot span on the B- too big without taking the wings off, and that would be a major reassembly.
http://defensetech.org/2011/08/25/ou...home-in-a-c-5/
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sussex
Age: 66
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that I did ask why they had not put them all on the F35 trial ship USS Wasp, they might have got here, unfortunately I understand Wasp is busy being refitted, so she can carry F35s.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes
on
45 Posts
'glad rag' I will never do your bidding but thought it appropo to suggest that I could not give a rats arse whether youse BritUKcrabs see any F-35Bs soon. What do I care? If anything I would care that if the Bs do travel over water that they do so safely etc.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Obviously not.
You and the other fans might care more if it turns out that, after 12 years and $40+ billion, and a year before supposed "operational" capability, the jet can't manage a very benign deployment with almost unlimited support.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: England's green and pleasant land
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think there's anything "benign" about a trans-atlantic trail in a single-seat, single-engined jet ac, having planned and flown many myself.
Regardless, I'm highly confident that there are many on both sides of the pond making considerable efforts to ensure that whatever can be done to get the ac to the UK is being done and with safety as a priority.
If they don't make it, the right decision will have been made. If they do make it, ditto.
Regardless, I'm highly confident that there are many on both sides of the pond making considerable efforts to ensure that whatever can be done to get the ac to the UK is being done and with safety as a priority.
If they don't make it, the right decision will have been made. If they do make it, ditto.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes
on
45 Posts
How the thunking goes at moment:
No Decisions Yet On F-35B UK Flights; Tomorrow Looms « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary
&
Sources: Engine ‘Definitely’ to Blame for June F-35 Fire 07 Jul 2014 Dave Majumdar
http://news.usni.org/2014/07/07/sour...june-f-35-fire
No Decisions Yet On F-35B UK Flights; Tomorrow Looms « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary
&
Sources: Engine ‘Definitely’ to Blame for June F-35 Fire 07 Jul 2014 Dave Majumdar
http://news.usni.org/2014/07/07/sour...june-f-35-fire
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 7th Jul 2014 at 22:49. Reason: exta urlage
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth Western Australia
Age: 57
Posts: 808
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are those on here who will blindly think the F35 is the ducks nuts and can do no wrong, also there are those who are of the opposite opinion and are just as extreme.
The fact is its a complex program with many things going on in parallel. Like all complex project management programs, they have to juggle competing interests.
The current issue is nothing more than a blip at a inconvientent time. We are not at war, the free world isn't hanging on a thread waiting for it to help us against the hordes. The piece of sh!t has had a major component failure in the engine. It is only prudent to ground it until the risk and cause is at least partially understood.
It would be complete stupidity to risk, 1) a pilot 2) a expensive airframe, when there is some unknown probability of a catastrophic engine failure.
I do believe this is not an unusual situation, in recent memory we have had A380 grounded, F22 grounded, etc etc.
The fact is its a complex program with many things going on in parallel. Like all complex project management programs, they have to juggle competing interests.
The current issue is nothing more than a blip at a inconvientent time. We are not at war, the free world isn't hanging on a thread waiting for it to help us against the hordes. The piece of sh!t has had a major component failure in the engine. It is only prudent to ground it until the risk and cause is at least partially understood.
It would be complete stupidity to risk, 1) a pilot 2) a expensive airframe, when there is some unknown probability of a catastrophic engine failure.
I do believe this is not an unusual situation, in recent memory we have had A380 grounded, F22 grounded, etc etc.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes
on
45 Posts
Most F-35 engines inspected; U.S. contract talks on hold for now 07 Jul 2014 Andrea Shalal
Most F-35 engines inspected; U.S. contract talks on hold for now | Reuters
"...Officials investigating the fire have determined what happened to the F135 engine built by Pratt, a unit of United Technologies Corp, but are still trying to understand why it happened, said one source familiar with the program...."
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You'd hope anything worth that amount of coin would indeed be capable of crossing an ocean 'benignly'.....
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: England's green and pleasant land
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rh200 has it spot-on! Well said Sir.
Hempy - those aircraft cost way more than the £90M you quote because they are Low-Rate Initial Production (LRIP) airframes. When Full-Rate Production (FRP) is in full swing you might see them come in at the price you quote (from where btw?!), or it could be higher (or lower, but I doubt it). I think the cost is irrelevant in many ways to this argument, unless of course you can quote an ac cost that would be acceptable in similar circumstances?
If it comes to the UK, great. If it doesn't, the more mature visitors to this forum will understand why.
Hempy - those aircraft cost way more than the £90M you quote because they are Low-Rate Initial Production (LRIP) airframes. When Full-Rate Production (FRP) is in full swing you might see them come in at the price you quote (from where btw?!), or it could be higher (or lower, but I doubt it). I think the cost is irrelevant in many ways to this argument, unless of course you can quote an ac cost that would be acceptable in similar circumstances?
If it comes to the UK, great. If it doesn't, the more mature visitors to this forum will understand why.
MSOCS - Maybe "benign" is not the right word. However, an operation with unlimited resources and months of planning, in summer, is not the same as the combat deployments for which this aircraft will supposedly be ready this year.
Flight safety is paramount, and to suggest anyone thinks otherwise without evidence is a strawman argument. The underlying issue is the reliability and maturity of the platform, almost eight years into flight test.
Flight safety is paramount, and to suggest anyone thinks otherwise without evidence is a strawman argument. The underlying issue is the reliability and maturity of the platform, almost eight years into flight test.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: A lot closer to the sea
Posts: 665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
USS Wasp is just out from a long dry docking overhaul period so is in no way fit for any type of aviation right now. That's why that is not an option.
I really hope the aircraft make it across but flight safety comes first and Bogdan is mature enough to make the right call despite the undoubted political and commercial pressures. Whilst the PR of a grounding and missed airshows is bad for the aircraft it is nothing compared to the what would happen if the worst happened mid-Atlantic.
Of note there has been alot less press about the PAK/FA (T-50) that caught fire recently. I'm waiting for the conspiracy theorists to come up with why all these stealth jets keep catching fire!
I really hope the aircraft make it across but flight safety comes first and Bogdan is mature enough to make the right call despite the undoubted political and commercial pressures. Whilst the PR of a grounding and missed airshows is bad for the aircraft it is nothing compared to the what would happen if the worst happened mid-Atlantic.
Of note there has been alot less press about the PAK/FA (T-50) that caught fire recently. I'm waiting for the conspiracy theorists to come up with why all these stealth jets keep catching fire!
S41 - The decision to cancel the F136 was rational. Why, the pro-GE side even raised the spectre of an engine-related fleetwide grounding! No way anything like that would happen.
The jets may make it to England - but the way the story is coming out right now reminds me of being stuck at DTW at 2015, and thank you for your patience, folks, we're waiting on maintenance and should have an update for you in another 20 minutes...
The jets may make it to England - but the way the story is coming out right now reminds me of being stuck at DTW at 2015, and thank you for your patience, folks, we're waiting on maintenance and should have an update for you in another 20 minutes...