F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
Why did you think that the shipboard vids were not from ships that were underway? 
Did you see the video? It's pretty obvious to me that the ship was underway.
As a taxpayer, my comment is "it's about damned time."
Did you see the video? It's pretty obvious to me that the ship was underway.
As a taxpayer, my comment is "it's about damned time."
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Leicestershire, England
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lonewolf_50, in the video you linked there is indeed views of the ship underway, just not during VL's or launches, certainly not as far as I can make out... But no matter, if the F-35B has made VL's/launches whilst underway then it's all good and, as you rightly say, "it's about damned time."
CM, yes, a fast game is indeed a good game!
-RP
CM, yes, a fast game is indeed a good game!
-RP
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes
on
45 Posts
'rp' I do not get your point. Are you suggesting that VLs and STOs were not conducted as per the news reports/articles/whatevers? Mostly we see a top view of the deck fore/aft without a view of either the ship wake or bow wave. The background shows the sea however due the relatively benign sea state I can only imagine that the ship was making some headway, because that is likely for 'steerage' way for the ship. Otherwise they will wallow in whatever swell there is and point their nose this and that way willydenilly.
WOD Wind Over the Deck is a combination of the natural wind and the ship speed into the wind. The ship will make whatever WOD is required at whatever crosswind angle required for the stated tests. Are you suggesting that none of this occurred because you did not see it in any video?
WOD Wind Over the Deck is a combination of the natural wind and the ship speed into the wind. The ship will make whatever WOD is required at whatever crosswind angle required for the stated tests. Are you suggesting that none of this occurred because you did not see it in any video?
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes
on
45 Posts
Probably no internal weapons were carried in DT II aboard USS Wasp because the F-35B aircraft cannot STO nor VL with any weapons carried internally in either symmetrical or asymmetrical combination. Why? Because we cannot see them in any video.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Leicestershire, England
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by SpazSinbad
'rp' I do not get your point...
I thought I sort of clarified my 'point' in the last sentance of post #4362, and then further in post #4365 but, nevermind... So, here it is again, none of the video clips conclusively show the USS Wasp underway during VL's/launches, HOWEVER, if VL's/launches HAVE taken place with the USS Wasp underway then, splendid!
-RP
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes
on
45 Posts
April Marks New F-35 Flying Records 08 May 2014
April Marks New F-35 Flying Records · Lockheed Martin
"...Among the record SDD flights, the F-35B version completed its 700th vertical takeoff and landing sortie, and it began crosswind landings and expeditionary operations....”
Whatever "exceeded the landing envelope" means, should that be surprising, or an occasion for awarding the program a cookie, 50 years later than the P.1127 and after $20 billion in STOVL-specific R&D?
Oh well, the UK public will be able to see a spectacular demonstration of F-16-like agility and vertical landing this summer. One might hope.
Oh well, the UK public will be able to see a spectacular demonstration of F-16-like agility and vertical landing this summer. One might hope.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oz
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
*sigh*
LO - My point was in response to those who were questioning whether the F-35B had landed on a moving ship.
Seeing as a Harrier can do, and regularly does this, the comment that it has exceeded the legacy aircraft's flight envelope would suggest it has landed on a moving ship, yes?
Or are you just reaching...again...?
(would post a 'hmmm..' smiley if Admin hadn't disabled my smiley access...)
LO - My point was in response to those who were questioning whether the F-35B had landed on a moving ship.
Seeing as a Harrier can do, and regularly does this, the comment that it has exceeded the legacy aircraft's flight envelope would suggest it has landed on a moving ship, yes?
Or are you just reaching...again...?
(would post a 'hmmm..' smiley if Admin hadn't disabled my smiley access...)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rhino,
Why on earth would they take the aircraft to a ship if not to carry out trials underway? Don't forget a ship underway is a ship not alongside or at anchor. It would be a complete waste of money to go there to sit at anchor - and at anchor the ship would "swing" which would make the situation even worse. Without actually having been there I can pretty well guarantee the the ship was moving (forwards) when the aircraft was operating to/from it.
Why on earth would they take the aircraft to a ship if not to carry out trials underway? Don't forget a ship underway is a ship not alongside or at anchor. It would be a complete waste of money to go there to sit at anchor - and at anchor the ship would "swing" which would make the situation even worse. Without actually having been there I can pretty well guarantee the the ship was moving (forwards) when the aircraft was operating to/from it.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes
on
45 Posts
F-35 Flight Test Update 13 - 12 May 2014
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You'll notice that the photos at Code One magazine by Lockheed, and photos in other sources, that the F-35 is never pictured entering or departing clouds.
The recent DOT&E Test report explains:
"Restrictions on the aircraft operating limits prevented instruction in most high performance maneuvering and flight through instrument meteorological conditions (i.e., clouds)."
http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/...2013f35jsf.pdf
The recent DOT&E Test report explains:
"Restrictions on the aircraft operating limits prevented instruction in most high performance maneuvering and flight through instrument meteorological conditions (i.e., clouds)."
http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/...2013f35jsf.pdf
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes
on
45 Posts
AFAIK flying F-35s near potential lightning strikes is an issue to be solved. However even the USAF these days are (earlier USN/USMC were) night flying - considered to be IMC last I knew. Getting good photos in cloud is probably a little difficult but I guess modern technology should be up to it these days.
Not to disappoint but here is a news item:
Glavy: No F-35 Vertical Landing At Farnborough Due To Ongoing Mat Tests Inside the Navy - 12 May 2014
____________________
FWIW: Air Force F-35A Makes First Nighttime Flight 03 Apr 2014 Shane McGlaun (Blog)
http://www.dailytech.com/Air+Force+F...ticle34649.htm
__________________
Weather Certification A Boon To Qualified F-35 Pilots At Eglin AFB Inside the Air Force - 25 Apr 2014
http://defensenewsstand.com/index.ph...=10&Itemid=412
Not to disappoint but here is a news item:
Glavy: No F-35 Vertical Landing At Farnborough Due To Ongoing Mat Tests Inside the Navy - 12 May 2014
"Testing on the matting needed to support an F-35B Joint Strike Fighter vertical landing won't be complete before the aircraft's planned international debut at the Farnborough International Air Show in the United Kingdom this summer, the Marine Corps' deputy assistant commandant for aviation told reporters last week...."
SOURCE: Login OR http://defensenewsstand.com/index.ph...=10&Itemid=412
SOURCE: Login OR http://defensenewsstand.com/index.ph...=10&Itemid=412
FWIW: Air Force F-35A Makes First Nighttime Flight 03 Apr 2014 Shane McGlaun (Blog)
http://www.dailytech.com/Air+Force+F...ticle34649.htm
"Marine and Navy pilots took first night flights in January
An F-35A fighter took off from Eglin Air Force Base on its first nighttime training mission late last month. Prior to this flight, the Air Force version of the advanced fighter was prohibited from operating at night or during adverse weather.
One of the issues which prohibited nighttime flights involved symbols displayed to the pilot that traditionally differ between the Air Force and Navy/Marines versions of aircraft. The Air Force has a different airworthiness authority, AFLCMC, than the NAVAIR standards already incorporated into the F-35 night systems.
“Back in [training] the displays the pilots were looking at were confusing to Air Force pilots but not confusing to Navy and Marine Corps pilots because a lot of the symbology was of Navy origin," described Air Force Lt. Gen. Chris Bogdan.
To get around this issue, the Air Force trained 15 pilots on simulators at Elgin and at the plant in Ft. Worth until the Air Force was sure its pilots were ready for night operations...."
An F-35A fighter took off from Eglin Air Force Base on its first nighttime training mission late last month. Prior to this flight, the Air Force version of the advanced fighter was prohibited from operating at night or during adverse weather.
One of the issues which prohibited nighttime flights involved symbols displayed to the pilot that traditionally differ between the Air Force and Navy/Marines versions of aircraft. The Air Force has a different airworthiness authority, AFLCMC, than the NAVAIR standards already incorporated into the F-35 night systems.
“Back in [training] the displays the pilots were looking at were confusing to Air Force pilots but not confusing to Navy and Marine Corps pilots because a lot of the symbology was of Navy origin," described Air Force Lt. Gen. Chris Bogdan.
To get around this issue, the Air Force trained 15 pilots on simulators at Elgin and at the plant in Ft. Worth until the Air Force was sure its pilots were ready for night operations...."
Weather Certification A Boon To Qualified F-35 Pilots At Eglin AFB Inside the Air Force - 25 Apr 2014
"The recent decision to clear the F-35A for flight in cloud cover or other weather has had an immediate positive effect on Joint Strike Fighter operators in Florida, with pilots who are already qualified in the aircraft able to take advantage of sorties that had been canceled in the past...."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 13th May 2014 at 08:22. Reason: Figure out URL issue + extra text FWIW
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@Spaz
Certainly such an important decision point as weather certification for the F-35, after twelve years in development, to actually fly in bad weather and in clouds is a matter of record, besides the sketchy "decision news" above.
Where is the evidence of the "decision?" Perhaps they decided to fly in clouds next year, only with pilots who have accumulated a hundred hours? Or what?
Certainly such an important decision point as weather certification for the F-35, after twelve years in development, to actually fly in bad weather and in clouds is a matter of record, besides the sketchy "decision news" above.
Where is the evidence of the "decision?" Perhaps they decided to fly in clouds next year, only with pilots who have accumulated a hundred hours? Or what?
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 0
Received 52 Likes
on
45 Posts
Don Bacon said:
Heheh. I thought you were going to come back with your hook conspiracy. Oh well - disappointment sets in - I'll go look for whatever you require but I'll guess it will not be good enough eh. As I mentioned the 'lightning' problem is being solved so the F-35s will have to remain clear of potential lightning (some 25 miles?) AFAIK, especially on ground special precautions have to be made re lightning. And by the way where are these lists of 'matters of record'?
Flying in cloud and at night means flying in IMC Instrument Meterological Conditions using IFR Instrument Flight Rules when different pilots will have different experience/training which will perhaps limit their individual abilities to fly to certain minimum criteria - such as decision height and distance for landing - emerging from cloud/rain near the runway after a precision instrument approach for example. One day with JPALS things will get a lot easier for automatic precision instrument landings especially on aircraft carriers (precision similar to what we have seen with the recent X-47B tests onboard).
"@Spaz
Certainly such an important decision point as weather certification for the F-35, after twelve years in development, to actually fly in bad weather and in clouds is a matter of record, besides the sketchy "decision news" above.
Where is the evidence of the "decision?" Perhaps they decided to fly in clouds next year, only with pilots who have accumulated a hundred hours? Or what?"
Certainly such an important decision point as weather certification for the F-35, after twelve years in development, to actually fly in bad weather and in clouds is a matter of record, besides the sketchy "decision news" above.
Where is the evidence of the "decision?" Perhaps they decided to fly in clouds next year, only with pilots who have accumulated a hundred hours? Or what?"
Flying in cloud and at night means flying in IMC Instrument Meterological Conditions using IFR Instrument Flight Rules when different pilots will have different experience/training which will perhaps limit their individual abilities to fly to certain minimum criteria - such as decision height and distance for landing - emerging from cloud/rain near the runway after a precision instrument approach for example. One day with JPALS things will get a lot easier for automatic precision instrument landings especially on aircraft carriers (precision similar to what we have seen with the recent X-47B tests onboard).
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 13th May 2014 at 22:21. Reason: Added crispy bacon quote + added grease
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oz
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I read recently that they zapped the hell out of the second Dutch jet in lightning tests and it "started first time"! Just the scientific evaluation and validation of the tests to be done.