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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 10th Oct 2013, 18:21
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When you are done grinding your axe, Philip, you can also stop mixing apples and oranges.
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Old 10th Oct 2013, 18:37
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Which ones?
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Old 10th Oct 2013, 21:31
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I still come back to the incredible stupidity of not putting a cat and trap on the new carriers. Is the carrier tied to the F35? Will it not outlast the F35? Even allowing for the fact that certain well-known personalities in the department/Navy are closely invested in the F35, nevertheless with a cat and trap the carriers could operate more types if necessary. As it is, they can't. So what happens if there really is a catastrophic F35 problem (which could yet happen) what then? Do we cart the carriers back to the ship yard and do a LOT of oxy cutting to get a catapult into them? And with the obsolescence of the stealth technology, I still think we would have been better with the FA-18. (which has already been said countless times here and elsewhere by others)
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Old 10th Oct 2013, 22:07
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Oh No! Only One Engine, One Pilot, One Helmet... FARRRKKKK!!!!!! :-)

F-35 JPO drops development of BAE alternative helmet
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Old 11th Oct 2013, 03:35
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Phillip,

How do you expect the jet to mature enough to be 'fit for combat' and reach IOC on time (or at least in line with the latest declaration) if the testing and training stops? Look at the mess Typhoon got itself into with stopping training and testing of air to surface weapons when Libya started!

With the Marines declaring IOC with 2B capabilities, why the assertion that 3F is the most important capability standard?
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Old 11th Oct 2013, 07:59
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With the Marines declaring IOC with 2B capabilities, why the assertion that 3F is the most important capability standard?

Perhaps because it's like paying for a Ferrari yet having to settle for the performance of a Mini?
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Old 11th Oct 2013, 09:33
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WhiteOvies
The problem of concurrency is raising its head again, there was a post saying that the F35 had reached 10,000 hours, just recently I think I saw a post saying the Rafale had reached 100,000 hours.

As I see it the F35 has a number of hurdles to climb, vault or indeed fly over before it gets to the configuration that it was initially promised as minimum war fighting configuration, 3f software.

The F35B at least has problems with stress in some of the spars, that as far as I am aware have not been sorted with a new light weight alloy.

To achieve a platform that the 3f software can run on there has to be a technical refresh of the systems in the plane, this I understand to mean take the plane back to the depot strip it down and put a new loom and set of processors in, then run a whole raft of acceptance tests again.

There are still as I understand it issues with regard to how much G any of the F35s can be taken to at the moment.

There is the tail hook issue with the F35C.

The helmet that is meant to be central to the data fusion has yet to be proven of course I do notice that the back-up plan for the BAE helmet has just been shelved.

I am not against testing and developing the planes at all, it needs to be done, I was just questioning if all this flying, not necessarily done by test pilots was adding value to the programme.

As I see it at the moment, the flight envelope for the plane is uncertain and unproven, the software running it is very much Beta release, so will not necessarily have the touch and feel of the planned or actual initial war fighting software, so why train top grade line pilots to fly a plan that will change a lot prior to being declared ready for service?

In a similar vein, I would have thought that the test equipment required to analyse the post tech refresh F35s will be rather different, Moore’s Law etc, from that designed to be ready for service 5 or more years ago, not quite the difference between setting the ignition on a 1960’s motorcycle with a fag paper and a stick as compared with a modern ECU equipped machine but somewhere along that continuum.

I do understand that the concurrency that everyone bought into is why the programme is where it is, I do also understand that unlike is it the Dutch Government that has one of its planes in storage, the Pentagon wants to show some progress with the project as it is such a large part of its budget.

I have noticed the recent reports about the physical construction process of the F35, that paint a far from rosy picture, as well as the reports of supply chain problems with “old” technology, what does concern me is the software, it always seems to be late, nothing unusual in itself however do we know if any of the V2 or V3i software releases will work on the post technical refresh planes, or will these be built and then stored till the software is released?

To reiterate, the testing and development needs to be done and concurrency has resulted in a number of planes being delivered to the services and other countries that will need deep level maintenance to bring them up to the advertised capability, as adjusted.
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Old 11th Oct 2013, 11:20
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F-35 JPO drops development of BAE alternative helmet
Great news, that was one of the big issues that there was concern about and the exponential increase in flight hours points to the F-35 program is going along very nicely.

Perhaps because it's like paying for a Ferrari yet having to settle for the performance of a Mini?
It can do a decent job.

But 95% of the F-35 fleet won't be flying with this version because the upgrade will be available before they are built.

Last edited by peter we; 11th Oct 2013 at 11:24.
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Old 12th Oct 2013, 18:21
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Looks like Paul Godfrey, according to his Tw@tter feed, has been promoted to Group Captain and is to be posted to High Wycombe on our F35 Programme ...

Many congratulations Sir !

Wg Cdr Godfrey joined the RAF in 1991 progressing through flying training on the Jet Provost and Hawk. Posted to the Harrier in 1994, he flew in various operations in the Balkans with IV(AC) Sqn, based at RAF Laarbruch in Germany between 1995 and 1998. Returning to IV(AC) Sqn as a Qualified Weapons Instructor, he moved with them back to the UK where he began an instructional tour on 20(R) Sqn, the Harrier OCU. In 2000, he was selected for an exchange tour as the first non-USAF pilot to fly the F-16CJ, serving on the 55th Fighter Sqn at Shaw AFB, South Carolina. Here he contributed to the post-9/11 homeland defence task and twice deployed on operations to the Middle East. On return from the USA Godders undertook a ground tour as a Typhoon Requirements Manager and, in 2005, was posted as a Flight Commander to 3(F) Sqn, the first Operational Typhoon Sqn. After completion of Staff College in 2009 he was posted to MOD as the Typhoon desk Officer and is now the Officer Commanding Operations at RAF Coningsby. He has also enjoyed three seasons display flying with the BBMF.
Apart from that impeccable background he's also flown WK518 ... which could hover with a 90 Kts headwind

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Old 12th Oct 2013, 20:39
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So no real strike background then, just puddle jumpers [bless] .

Absolutely the way forwards.

<no suitable smiley available>
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Old 13th Oct 2013, 01:52
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Military people that think they need a Twatter feed for lesser people to follow might be considered, at the very least, insecure. And I mean "insecure" in both senses of the word.
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Old 13th Oct 2013, 09:47
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So no real strike background then, just puddle jumpers [bless] .

Absolutely the way forwards.
Clearly a sarcastic troll.

Well done Godders, I know you'll be an excellent addition to the F-35 team at High Wycombe.

Glad Rag, to answer your point on strike in particular, the term doesn't and hasn't meant what it used to mean for quite some time now. Especially in US terminology. F-35B will be a carrier strike asset and Godders has more than enough experience of operating Harrier at sea. Add in his understanding of US TTPs and operating methodology; his Typhoon knowledge, which will undoubtedly be of use when considering the concepts of balancing both capabilities as a Future Force, and you have a very smart decision in his posting. Who would you employ in such a role then?
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Old 13th Oct 2013, 13:12
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Perhaps they should re-designate it F/A-35...


Especially as it's F/A use to anyone at the moment.

Last edited by Willard Whyte; 13th Oct 2013 at 13:13.
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Old 13th Oct 2013, 18:50
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Phillip,

I don't see how F-35 differs from any other platform in the respect of upgrades and modifications. The UKs early aircraft will have to go through this process but the mods have already been done and tested on the Development fleet. In fact the success of one of them was critical to F-35B coming off probation nearly 2 yrs ago.

The flight envelope is certainly not untested, otherwise Eglin would be a very quiet place! Work continues to expand it further at Pax and Edwards as you would expect.

I agree that there is still plenty to do and concurrency has always been an issue. I would suggest that the work at Eglin is critical to ensuring that the aircrew and maintainers are ready and experienced as soon as possible. Otherwise there would be even more delay.

The upgrade from Harrier GR7 to GR9 did not instantly ground all Harrier pilots or render all Avionics test equipment and GSE obsolete, why do you think F-35 is any different?

Last edited by WhiteOvies; 13th Oct 2013 at 18:51.
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Old 15th Oct 2013, 00:50
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Six of the Best for Norway

The F-35 Fighter Jet: Norway Wants 6 More 14 Oct 2013
"Norway wants six more of Lockheed Martin’s F-35 fighter jet.
The Scandinavian nation had already ordered six of the jets this year, but it wants six more. If approved by the Norwegian Parliament, the deal would be worth 7.38 billion kroner, roughly $1.23 billion.

The Norwegian government announced its intentions to procure 52 of the F-35 fighter jets in 2008 for a $64 billion price tag. Norway had already purchased four F-35 fighters in 2011. The fighter jets would be delivered by 2018 with the six already approved.

Monday’s proposal came as part of the outgoing parliament’s 2014 budget. The current government is stepping down after losing last month’s parliamentary elections with the Conservative Party’s Erna Solberg defeat of the Labour Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg.

According to reports, leaders of the incoming government intend to continue with the procurement of the 52 F-35 fighters...."
http://www.inquisitr.com/991880/the-...-wants-6-more/
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Old 15th Oct 2013, 11:25
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Considering both their paranoia over Russia and their abundant oil purse I'm not surprised.
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Old 15th Oct 2013, 11:46
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Thread drift...
Mach Two, we've all had to sit through the various FB, Tw@tter briefs. Tw@tter is a way to 'spread the word' to people who may not read newspapers or spend their lives in RAF Careers offices.. it's mainly there for PR purposes, have a look, there are lots of Military Tw@tter accounts, some, like Godders' actually promote all things RAF, and also give an insight into flying aircraft like the Spitfire..which some will never get to experience. For example, mine let people experience 'the magic of Helmet Polishing' and the 'what's heading your direction' was also popular..
Coff, WK518..what a 'chipfire'..
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Old 15th Oct 2013, 14:25
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Cracks discovered on F-35B bulkheads

-RP
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Old 15th Oct 2013, 18:41
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Ski Jump Installed by 28 Oct 2013?

"Ramp section 168 erection scheduled for 28th October [Finish Ramp?]"
http://www.aircraftcarrieralliance.c...mms-141013.pdf (0.5Mb)

Ski Jump Parts Pic Early Sep 2013:
http://www.aircraftcarrieralliance.c...mms/070913.pdf (0.6Mb)

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Old 15th Oct 2013, 19:01
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Just in case it gets buried under all the good news...

Originally Posted by Rhino power
So these wing carry through components won't be a serious problem in the long term life of the aircraft?
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