A400 Grizzly
Champagne anyone...?
Wedge is wedge. SPM & combo are a different matter. 4 containers off the ramp is fine but to be fair you could put 4 CDS containers followed by static line jumpers out the back of a J (if someone could come up with a cogently written requirement) 
Not a Herc vs A400 dig by the way, just a comment on the utility of different airdrop loads. 
Good to see the A400 progressing through its trials though. Here's hoping that when it comes into RAF service it gets crewed by the right folk early on who can set the ethos and drive its development as a TacAT platform.
Not a Herc vs A400 dig by the way, just a comment on the utility of different airdrop loads. Good to see the A400 progressing through its trials though. Here's hoping that when it comes into RAF service it gets crewed by the right folk early on who can set the ethos and drive its development as a TacAT platform.
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Are we seriously building a 21st Century state of the art transport aircraft that is being funded for a ****in Wedge platfrorm 
If we are those involved should be hanging their heads in shame.
If we are those involved should be hanging their heads in shame.
"The INTRODUCER"
“It was an enormous pleasure for me to experience the excellent qualities of the A400M for paratroop operations. Paratroopers serving with our customer nations can be confident that the A400M will provide a far superior platform for their operations in future.”
Maybe his comments might be valid if was accustomed to mustering at 1900 for an 0400 drop, spending several hours packing kit and "hurrying up to wait", getting loaded up with so much kit that he cannot climb the ramp unaided, sitting so cramped he is unable to even extend a leg for several hours of low-level insertion while the drivers make half the pax puke, then jumping with ninety odd others playing aerial bumper-cars with directionally unstable chutes.
"The INTRODUCER"
Trim stab
Not sure why you're quite so sceptical given Tom Enders well-documented record, but for the record he has 1,000+ jumps of all kinds and is a former German Army paratrooper and subsequently reservist.
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Clockwork,
it means that someone with a salary of >1M€ feels happy to jump out of the thing. That's something. The other is, you first have to do some jumps to tell about the quality of the aircraft for releasing paras, so that's what they're doing. So no provocation please.
it means that someone with a salary of >1M€ feels happy to jump out of the thing. That's something. The other is, you first have to do some jumps to tell about the quality of the aircraft for releasing paras, so that's what they're doing. So no provocation please.
Not sure why you're quite so sceptical given Tom Enders well-documented record, but for the record he has 1,000+ jumps of all kinds and is a former German Army paratrooper and subsequently reservist.
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Trim Stab
Oh dear, 2 posts and both incorrect - why not go for the hat-trick? or better still, take your foot out of your mouth and get back to grinding your axe.
TT - not sure what your point is, nor the reason for your animosity - care to explain?
I suspect that the A400 will turn out to be a very good paratroop aircraft (not that it is a valid role any more) given the consultation in the design process with experienced paratroopers - but there will be a lot more trials before that is proven. Sport jumping off the back ramp has virtually no relevance at all to the reality of mass static-line operational paratroop drops out of the side-doors.
I suspect that the A400 will turn out to be a very good paratroop aircraft (not that it is a valid role any more) given the consultation in the design process with experienced paratroopers - but there will be a lot more trials before that is proven. Sport jumping off the back ramp has virtually no relevance at all to the reality of mass static-line operational paratroop drops out of the side-doors.
Last edited by Trim Stab; 15th Nov 2010 at 17:38.
No one is suggesting that these are certification or qualification tests.
“It was an enormous pleasure for me to experience the excellent qualities of the A400M for paratroop operations. Paratroopers serving with our customer nations can be confident that the A400M will provide a far superior platform for their operations in future.”
Last edited by Trim Stab; 15th Nov 2010 at 18:31.
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Whilst there is no doubt that Tom Enders involvement in this test was a PR stunt, surely nobody can blame the company for wringing the maximum publicity from any positive news in what has been a troubled programme.
However, to describe this stage of the development process as "superficial" indicates a clear lack of understanding of the nature of flight test. Would you really expect the early stages of a test campaign to include the kind of parachuting activity that you have described? The findings of the these tests allow the careful and incremental opening of the envelope towards the intended capability. Moreover, isn't the freefall dropping of small groups from the ramp a more operationally relevant activity than mass static-line drops?
To put it another way, your comments appear akin to describing the initial weapon release tests of a new combat as not significant because they did not take place with live ordnance and in night IMC conditions.
Of course these tests are not representative, but they are a crucial stepping-stone to bigger things.
However, to describe this stage of the development process as "superficial" indicates a clear lack of understanding of the nature of flight test. Would you really expect the early stages of a test campaign to include the kind of parachuting activity that you have described? The findings of the these tests allow the careful and incremental opening of the envelope towards the intended capability. Moreover, isn't the freefall dropping of small groups from the ramp a more operationally relevant activity than mass static-line drops?
To put it another way, your comments appear akin to describing the initial weapon release tests of a new combat as not significant because they did not take place with live ordnance and in night IMC conditions.
Of course these tests are not representative, but they are a crucial stepping-stone to bigger things.
Would you really expect the early stages of a test campaign to include the kind of parachuting activity that you have described?
But the press release should have reflected the cautious conclusions that could be drawn from such a preliminary test, rather than making an impetuous extrapolation to a grandiose claim about the A400's as yet unproven capability as a paratroop aircraft.
Just what were the test points from this publicity stunt? The aircraft can fly with its ramp and cargo door open at an altitude that dosen't require suplimental oxygen. Well woopydo. The only thing being tested in this senario is the parachute.
Now if it was a drop from 35K plus, that would be testing the aircraft's ability to depressurise and repressurise whilst the crew were on supplimentary O2. Oh hang on whilst its on Civil Cert testing EASA won't let it carry an O2 system that would allow that will they.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti A400M, but I am anti EASA's head burying attitude to civil testing of aircraft that will be military operated. Then there is Airbus making big claims for little steps on a project that has been delayed due to some dubious management decisions within Airbus.
Now if it was a drop from 35K plus, that would be testing the aircraft's ability to depressurise and repressurise whilst the crew were on supplimentary O2. Oh hang on whilst its on Civil Cert testing EASA won't let it carry an O2 system that would allow that will they.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti A400M, but I am anti EASA's head burying attitude to civil testing of aircraft that will be military operated. Then there is Airbus making big claims for little steps on a project that has been delayed due to some dubious management decisions within Airbus.
Trim Stab and VX275, found some patches for you...
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Management decisions ...
Quite a lot of the A400M programme's problems were caused by what one could call "the old team", and Mr. Enders and his new team have had to spend a lot of time and effort clearing the stables - don't knock their glee that things seem to be going well at last.
PS. Also, don't forget the time lost through a member of the engine consortium's inability to get the software right, within certificators' parameters ...
PS. Also, don't forget the time lost through a member of the engine consortium's inability to get the software right, within certificators' parameters ...