NATO concerned over RAF training
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From an AAC perspective things could not be more different!. Certainly in the rotary world there are currently more hours than you can deal with and a dearth of aircrew.
About 5 years ago the AAC saw an outflow of experienced aircrew (all nearing the end of their time), very little effort was made to retain them due to a percieved glut of pilots.
Fast forward 5 years and we have adopted (early) Lynx Wildcat manning structures. The cynic in me would suggest that it was an easy coup to make the figures look nice....instead of hopelessly undermanned!
Today the AAC Sqn structure consists of around 12 front seaters. The OC/2IC/Ops Offr are all on the line as much as the next man.
The average AAC Regiment and its Sqns could quite easily fit into the structure of 9 Sqn AAC, and 672,659 and 669 Flights!....the numbers of aircrew are probably lower than a unit such as 230 Sqn!
Flying hours are not the same as the historic NI levels, but we are now in a position to have to turn down training in order that the daily grind of administration/briefs/SJAR's/MATT's are completed.
Its not the flying that causes problems now....just the reluctance of HQ AAC to realise that we are strapped for people!.
About 5 years ago the AAC saw an outflow of experienced aircrew (all nearing the end of their time), very little effort was made to retain them due to a percieved glut of pilots.
Fast forward 5 years and we have adopted (early) Lynx Wildcat manning structures. The cynic in me would suggest that it was an easy coup to make the figures look nice....instead of hopelessly undermanned!
Today the AAC Sqn structure consists of around 12 front seaters. The OC/2IC/Ops Offr are all on the line as much as the next man.
The average AAC Regiment and its Sqns could quite easily fit into the structure of 9 Sqn AAC, and 672,659 and 669 Flights!....the numbers of aircrew are probably lower than a unit such as 230 Sqn!
Flying hours are not the same as the historic NI levels, but we are now in a position to have to turn down training in order that the daily grind of administration/briefs/SJAR's/MATT's are completed.
Its not the flying that causes problems now....just the reluctance of HQ AAC to realise that we are strapped for people!.
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I fear its the same over here in Canada. I recently spent a day at one of our fighter bases, the aircrew to a person didnt feel they were getting enough pole time to be either safe or combat ready, during a three year tour at this same base way back when it was the RCAF I flew 1750 hours fighter {lots of live scrambles} plus time on the squadron hacks, T33 and Beech 45, no there isnt a Hot/Cold War these days, but one is either in the fighter game or not, being non current just wont cut it if the fit hits the shan!
Even back in the Cold War, the RAF used to restrict the way aircraft were flown - because they were way past their sell-by date, running out of fatigue and we suffered under a fuel 'moriarty'*.
Once or twice a year we were allowed to fly the F-4 to the G limit. Most of the time we were allowed less G than a Bulldog was allowed...... Every so often there'd be a '$hit list' posted of those who'd used the most fuel/fatigue per sortie...
During a session with the Aggressors at Alconbury, I was asked by an F-5 driver why I hadn't tried a 'guns jink'. When I told him about our restrictions, he was astonished - "Why do they send you guys here if you aren't allowed to fly the airplane to its limits? It's like fighting with one arm tied behind your back".
Regular flying practice is essential. And JF, don't forget that 'quantity has a quality all its own', as Stalin reportedly once said!
* Yes, I know it was really a 'moratorium'!
Once or twice a year we were allowed to fly the F-4 to the G limit. Most of the time we were allowed less G than a Bulldog was allowed...... Every so often there'd be a '$hit list' posted of those who'd used the most fuel/fatigue per sortie...
During a session with the Aggressors at Alconbury, I was asked by an F-5 driver why I hadn't tried a 'guns jink'. When I told him about our restrictions, he was astonished - "Why do they send you guys here if you aren't allowed to fly the airplane to its limits? It's like fighting with one arm tied behind your back".
Regular flying practice is essential. And JF, don't forget that 'quantity has a quality all its own', as Stalin reportedly once said!
* Yes, I know it was really a 'moratorium'!
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The current Moriarty (Good word Beags) seems to only be affecting the RAF. Both AAC aircrew and RN aircrew have stated on this thread that they have an abundance of hours ....so many that they are turning them down. So why is this issue one sided?
Vec,
Could it be because RAF FW assets are more expensive to operate per FH, and that the cost of maintaining the air bridge between here and AFG is sucking up the RAF FH budget?
Could it be because RAF FW assets are more expensive to operate per FH, and that the cost of maintaining the air bridge between here and AFG is sucking up the RAF FH budget?
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Not always true though. For instance, an AH is more expensive to operate than a GR 4 or a Harrier. A Lynx is more expensive than a C130 J/K.... So cost isn't an excuse ....unless you fly the Typhoon or a Merlin.....I bet they are expensive
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I'm not sure if the AT world still has training issues, but it was very difficult to get any non-operational training in a few years back.
Guys were finding it quite challenging when going to civvy airfields where "proper" approaches were required.
It got so bad that when we did eventually get an MCT, we could have 6 or 7 guys on it, trying to share the 2-3 hour slot.
As I say though, that was a couple of years ago now, so hopefully things have improved.....
Guys were finding it quite challenging when going to civvy airfields where "proper" approaches were required.
It got so bad that when we did eventually get an MCT, we could have 6 or 7 guys on it, trying to share the 2-3 hour slot.
As I say though, that was a couple of years ago now, so hopefully things have improved.....
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Contrary to what Ralphmalph posted.
In todays AAC world the only reason that hours are being refused is because we are so critically undermanned. The maths are that if we were fully manned there is a shortfall of some 8500hrs on what is required for competency across the fleet. I'll let you do the math on how many crews we are therefore deficient..............
In todays AAC world the only reason that hours are being refused is because we are so critically undermanned. The maths are that if we were fully manned there is a shortfall of some 8500hrs on what is required for competency across the fleet. I'll let you do the math on how many crews we are therefore deficient..............
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Just got back from a trip to Beijing. Watched a two hour TV programme in my hotel focusing on the Chinese armed forces. It occured to me that while we have been depleting our operational capability in pointless cul-de-sacs, they on the other hand appear to have an ever more professional capability.
Certainly they don't look short on hours or deficient on crews. By the way why are we deficient, must be thousands of young, and old like me, who would like to get their hands on some military hardware......
They are also very cleverly taking over a lot of African "peacekeeping" duties and getting close to the decision makers in countries which are the home of scarce primary resources...
"He who wishes to fight must first count the cost. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be dampened. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor dampened, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue... In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
Certainly they don't look short on hours or deficient on crews. By the way why are we deficient, must be thousands of young, and old like me, who would like to get their hands on some military hardware......
They are also very cleverly taking over a lot of African "peacekeeping" duties and getting close to the decision makers in countries which are the home of scarce primary resources...
"He who wishes to fight must first count the cost. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be dampened. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor dampened, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue... In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
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HEDP,
"Its not the flying that causes problems now....just the reluctance of HQ AAC to realise that we are strapped for people!"
With you 100%, just not enough people!
The fact that currency and competancy are not an issue is not a concious, managed decision by UK MOD/JHC.....more good luck and cicumstance!
"Its not the flying that causes problems now....just the reluctance of HQ AAC to realise that we are strapped for people!"
With you 100%, just not enough people!
The fact that currency and competancy are not an issue is not a concious, managed decision by UK MOD/JHC.....more good luck and cicumstance!
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Ralph,
You are correct, as undermanned as we are, and overcommitted to non-flying tasks as we are, few if any line pilots are achieving 15 hours a month (and there aint that many spare hours floating around).
The problem is not just isolated to FJ.
HEDP
You are correct, as undermanned as we are, and overcommitted to non-flying tasks as we are, few if any line pilots are achieving 15 hours a month (and there aint that many spare hours floating around).
The problem is not just isolated to FJ.
HEDP
OC/2IC/Ops Offr are all on the line as much as the next man
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I came across this passage and thought of this thread, I guess he is talking about 60-80 hours per month per pilot assuming that there are 12-15 pilots per squadron?
I asked them for an average of 1000 hours of operational and training flying each month. To knock down as many Huns as possible and keep the accident rate to a minimum. Accidents are inevitable and will be with us as long as we fly aeroplanes. But the accident rate can be kept down through constant supervision of training, through a profound knowledge of our own aircraft and the various flying techniques
Johnnie Johnston describing his address on taking over the County of Chester squadron.
Johnnie Johnston describing his address on taking over the County of Chester squadron.
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Indeed, though to be fair the situation couldn't be more disimilar. I believe Johnson himself racked up 160 operational sorties and 450+ hours flying time in the 6 months he led the Kenley wing and it completely wore him out.
I don't think anyone would ever want to go to that extreme today, outside desperate circumstances.
I don't think anyone would ever want to go to that extreme today, outside desperate circumstances.
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1. Sit and read/study various papers/computer discs about the 'enemy'.
2. Sit and amend numerous classified documents for hours and hours.
3. Officer i/c-seeing the Corporals Club.
4. Visit the motor club and tinker with your morris minor.
5. Have a game of squash, aka maintaining combat fitness - it's much better than route marching and much more fun.
6. Visit clothing stores to exchange a pair of socks, before moving on to barrack stores to collect a light bulb for your OMQ, - stopping off at SCAF to have a coffee with squash partner, who is also deputy oic corporals club.
7. By which time lunch is served in the mess.
8. Then having digested the daily rags in the ante room until 14.30 hours you saunter across the mess to call into Mess manager's outer office to query last month's mess bill, before wandering over to Pay Accounts to collect re-embursement rate 5 for last week's Burger King coffee and french fries enroute to Command's symposium for oic corporals clubs.
9. Phone or email PMC for update on career options, pvr routine, pension rate and gratuity, before the station hooter sounds for 'end of day's play'.
10. Mess for tea and biscuits before an hour's snozze, shower, change, and sit down to dinner.
Such a grand life. Full of excitment, challenges, and opportunites.
2. Sit and amend numerous classified documents for hours and hours.
3. Officer i/c-seeing the Corporals Club.
4. Visit the motor club and tinker with your morris minor.
5. Have a game of squash, aka maintaining combat fitness - it's much better than route marching and much more fun.
6. Visit clothing stores to exchange a pair of socks, before moving on to barrack stores to collect a light bulb for your OMQ, - stopping off at SCAF to have a coffee with squash partner, who is also deputy oic corporals club.
7. By which time lunch is served in the mess.
8. Then having digested the daily rags in the ante room until 14.30 hours you saunter across the mess to call into Mess manager's outer office to query last month's mess bill, before wandering over to Pay Accounts to collect re-embursement rate 5 for last week's Burger King coffee and french fries enroute to Command's symposium for oic corporals clubs.
9. Phone or email PMC for update on career options, pvr routine, pension rate and gratuity, before the station hooter sounds for 'end of day's play'.
10. Mess for tea and biscuits before an hour's snozze, shower, change, and sit down to dinner.
Such a grand life. Full of excitment, challenges, and opportunites.
