Help focus the cuts on the right areas
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Bismark
By this did you mean AVM (now AM) Timo Anderson who left the ACAS post on 1 March to head up the new MAA (post Haddon Cave). His replacement is AVM Baz North, a helicopter man through and through - that may, or may not, be a good thing for the future of JHC and/or the future of RAF SH!
but the Irish parrot behind Torpy still sits on Dalton's shoulder
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idn't Queen Victoria make some remark or ruling that Naval Officers were NOT gentlemen?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In the first instance I understood it was to avoid head banging. In the latter
No oath of allegiance is sworn by members of the Royal Navy, which is not maintained under an Act of Parliament but by the royal prerogative
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I understood it was to avoid head banging.
The Nore mutiny story (RN officers called for ringleaders to come forward and state their grievances, and they would not be harmed. Step forward the mutineers who were promptly hanged. Queen Victoria was told of this, expressed the opinion that RN officers were not gentlemen and it has been so ever since) was the version related to me several years ago by a then-RN colleague of many years service. Of course, the Nore mutiny pre-dates Victoria's birth by several years but 'never let the truth get in the way of a good dit'.
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didn't Queen Victoria make some remark or ruling that Naval Officers were NOT gentlemen?
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Going back to the topic... Should we be rationalising our RW assets? Do we have too many Helicopters? How about we reduce to just 3 types? Which ones would go? Can I suggest that we "need" just the following:
Chinook, Apache, Wildcat.
Everything else goes.
Chinook, Apache, Wildcat.
Everything else goes.
I think vec's on the right lines. All the bitching about the Reds and the odd chef is irrelevant - it saves peanuts. Similarly, closing bases would save very little if all you do is move the units to another location as you inevitably will have to build hangars/offices/SLA/SFA (and the MOD don't get to pocket the sales proceeds).
The only way to save serious dosh is to disband entire fleets and NOT replace the capability with something else. That way you save the personnel costs and all the DE&S overheads, which combined are massive. Chopping the odd sqn or two isn't enough.
The question is, which fleets?
The only way to save serious dosh is to disband entire fleets and NOT replace the capability with something else. That way you save the personnel costs and all the DE&S overheads, which combined are massive. Chopping the odd sqn or two isn't enough.
The question is, which fleets?
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Thats my point...we can't fanny about by disbanding the BBMF, Reds etc...we have to be bold and get rid of capability.
Lets start with ASW. Lets get rid of our entire ASW cap. All Nimrods to go. All Type 23 frigates to go. All Merlin (Grey) to go.
Any Offensive Maritime Patrol capability should go. So, we get rid of all Tornado aircraft, All Nimrods and the Sentinel.
Why do we need so many heavy lift AT aircraft? All C130s to go as well as the Tristar and VC10. If we have to take a Capability gap then so be it.
32 Squadron...? Surely they have to be on borrowed time?
Lets start with ASW. Lets get rid of our entire ASW cap. All Nimrods to go. All Type 23 frigates to go. All Merlin (Grey) to go.
Any Offensive Maritime Patrol capability should go. So, we get rid of all Tornado aircraft, All Nimrods and the Sentinel.
Why do we need so many heavy lift AT aircraft? All C130s to go as well as the Tristar and VC10. If we have to take a Capability gap then so be it.
32 Squadron...? Surely they have to be on borrowed time?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And depth charges and asdic.
Do ships even need long range radar?
Or WAFU?
Do ships even need long range radar?
Or WAFU?
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 9th Jul 2010 at 10:05.
That's most of the RAF gone then 
Removal of entire parachute capability (less SF) has got to be pretty much a no-brainer. But it's a bit easy to pick on the other Services (and II Sqn RAF Regt).
How about E3? Not essential for UK home defence and the US have enough for joint ops.
How about E3? Not essential for UK home defence and the US have enough for joint ops.
Somebody mentioned drawing all MOD medical support from NHS. That is an idea that is worth developing. If NHS was structured so that volunteering for TA/RNR/RAFAux did not compromise NHS career, but also was potentially interesting career-wise, then why could it not provide all MOD medical/dental requirements, including in hostile environments?
Moreover, if all public sector pensions were streamlined and unified, it could be relatively easy for NHS/Reserve staff to switch between roles in either service, including senior roles.
There are other branches of the civil service that could be similarly integrated with MOD. For example, why not form a TA Royal Engineer Regiment of DFID volunteers? They could form a reserve of engineer-soldiers able to provide frontline reconstruction in the oft quoted battle for "hearts and minds".
Moreover, if all public sector pensions were streamlined and unified, it could be relatively easy for NHS/Reserve staff to switch between roles in either service, including senior roles.
There are other branches of the civil service that could be similarly integrated with MOD. For example, why not form a TA Royal Engineer Regiment of DFID volunteers? They could form a reserve of engineer-soldiers able to provide frontline reconstruction in the oft quoted battle for "hearts and minds".
Thats a good point...the E3...what a compete waste of money that is
vec,
So you would advocate having a Navy that, effectively, is reduced to an air power projection + denial outfit (T45/Aster, Trident, Tomahawk and Harrier/JCA)? I would rather our Navy actually concentrate on its traditional job of securing sea lines of communication. You would certainly need them if you binned most of the heavy-lift AT.
Tornado has never been an MPA and has not had a maritime role since Sea Eagle was retired aeons ago. Sentinel is not an MPA either. Am I missing something here?
Lets start with ASW. Lets get rid of our entire ASW cap. All Nimrods to go. All Type 23 frigates to go. All Merlin (Grey) to go.
Any Offensive Maritime Patrol capability should go. So, we get rid of all Tornado aircraft, All Nimrods and the Sentinel.
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Tornado has never been an MPA and has not had a maritime role since Sea Eagle was retired aeons ago. Sentinel is not an MPA either. Am I missing something here?
So you would advocate having a Navy that, effectively, is reduced to an air power projection + denial outfit (T45/Aster, Trident, Tomahawk and Harrier/JCA)? I would rather our Navy actually concentrate on its traditional job of securing sea lines of communication. You would certainly need them if you binned most of the heavy-lift AT.
Been there, done that...
'
MSSG (a 'hearts and minds' organisation) is largely composed of reservists, as are the various IO/Psyops units. Of course there are extensive resources across the reserve forces, but it is vary rare that units are ever mobilised en masse; rather they are used to augment regular units. RAF VR/RAuxAF utilisation is very, very high - soemthing like 150% of VR personnel have been mobilised for operations since 2003. The TA levels are much, much lower and based on asking for volunteers (the RAF doesn't do that - they are all (generally) compulsary mobilisations).
The motivation for joining reserve froces has to be considered. There are many, many very well qualified personnel who are part-timers in one form or another, but employed in completely different area s eg there are chartered civil engineers service as Gunners in RAuxAF Regt Sqns. They don't necessarily want to be military engineers! The Strategic Review of Reserve Forces that came out earlier last year is addressing many of these issues. For example, the TA still has units that would only ever be mobilised if we were invaded; in contrast the RAF Reserves are lean and fit for purpose.
Whilst I am on here - why do so many posters object to PTIs, for example? Evaporating all PTIs would allow one fast jet to operate for a year - or some such. Fitness is part and parcel of military life (or should be) to say nothing else of self pride and esteem. The PTIs are charged, inter alia, to ensure we are fit. Standy by for lard-arse self justification...
'Somebody mentioned drawing all MOD medical support from NHS. That is an idea that is worth developing. If NHS was structured so that volunteering for TA/RNR/RAFAux did not compromise NHS career, but also was potentially interesting career-wise, then why could it not provide all MOD medical/dental requirements, including in hostile environments?
Moreover, if all public sector pensions were streamlined and unified, it could be relatively easy for NHS/Reserve staff to switch between roles in either service, including senior roles.
There are other branches of the civil service that could be similarly integrated with MOD. For example, why not form a TA Royal Engineer Regiment of DFID volunteers? They could form a reserve of engineer-soldiers able to provide frontline reconstruction in the oft quoted battle for "hearts and minds".,
Already done. I don't have the stats at hand but a significant percentage of our Medics (doctors, nurses etc) in Afghanistan are volunteers from the....NHS (where else?). Interestingly, there is no shortage of volunteers but if the recruitment and training system isn't quick enough we sometimes lose these guys and girls to MSF or similar organisations. The Reserve Forces Act 1996 limits how often we can mobilise reservists (1 year in three max).MSSG (a 'hearts and minds' organisation) is largely composed of reservists, as are the various IO/Psyops units. Of course there are extensive resources across the reserve forces, but it is vary rare that units are ever mobilised en masse; rather they are used to augment regular units. RAF VR/RAuxAF utilisation is very, very high - soemthing like 150% of VR personnel have been mobilised for operations since 2003. The TA levels are much, much lower and based on asking for volunteers (the RAF doesn't do that - they are all (generally) compulsary mobilisations).
The motivation for joining reserve froces has to be considered. There are many, many very well qualified personnel who are part-timers in one form or another, but employed in completely different area s eg there are chartered civil engineers service as Gunners in RAuxAF Regt Sqns. They don't necessarily want to be military engineers! The Strategic Review of Reserve Forces that came out earlier last year is addressing many of these issues. For example, the TA still has units that would only ever be mobilised if we were invaded; in contrast the RAF Reserves are lean and fit for purpose.
Whilst I am on here - why do so many posters object to PTIs, for example? Evaporating all PTIs would allow one fast jet to operate for a year - or some such. Fitness is part and parcel of military life (or should be) to say nothing else of self pride and esteem. The PTIs are charged, inter alia, to ensure we are fit. Standy by for lard-arse self justification...