Help focus the cuts on the right areas

[VinRouge]

Spending Challenge


Ideas I put forward:

Move to flat rate system for subsistence expenses. Gets rid of admin cost and eliminates fraudulent claims.

Axe CHBS and allow individuals to book HOTAC themselves. Every pound under the "average" rate adds 50p to your IE.

Axe annual data protection act training

Axe GPC training

Axe "U Need 2 noe" and other nonsense in paper format, instead deploy on intranet for anyone sad enough to actually want to read it.

Same again for department magazines.

[Grimweasel]

1. Stop the wasteful 'annualrity' of defence spending. It's wasteful that we get 'late spends' where we have to get rid of £2M from failed RPC ventures just so that we get the money next year - the whole budgets for projects (esp Infra) needs looking at!

2. Ditch all the unaffordable ceremonial crap such as Guards units and Royal Horse Arty - it's a bygone era; forget it lads - move on - we have not used horses in true battle for some years and do we ever see any of the supposed tourist income that it generates? Wasteful in these lean times.

3. Cull the Civil service and get rid of the 'hangers on' that just 'exist' because people are too crap to use the restoring efficiency programme.

4. Build bloody Barracks and SFA in Central London, on MoD land and stop the millions being wasted on SSSA and SSSFA - why sell off Chelsea Barracks when we could have built service accn there? Same with all the waste at Abbey Wood - buy back RAF Locking and build accommodation!!!

5. Use / Rent out spare capacity on trucks and airframes that are travelling the world empty - how many C17/C130 fly back from Europe/USA empty? What a waste -advertise the empty space and charge companies to fill the aircraft!

6. Stop all the Stn Execs having their own cars just to drive from the patch and back? I mean, come on?? Bike you lazy sods!!!

7. Sell off Defence Estates and rent the land back in some PFI -do away with all the admin faff and let some big company deal with all our Infra needs

8. Amalgamate all MoD admin functions - we now have JPA so lets just have a joint admin corps / service - it would save millions in less bull$hit admin hierarchies!!

That should save a few quid and direct cash to where it's needed in the front-line!!

[Pontius Navigator]

Move to flat rate system for subsistence expenses. Gets rid of admin cost and eliminates fraudulent claims. Unfair to some as people would duck and weave to avoid expensive trips (expensive to them) an dsome other sap would be joed.

Axe CHBS and allow individuals to book HOTAC themselves. Every pound under the "average" rate adds 50p to your IE. Good idea except that HBS took the pain out of it. Any saving and benefit to the individual would be taxed.

Axe annual data protection act training annual is done on a CD, costs time not money. Agree bin the triennieal class room bit.

Axe GPC training is done on CD but I never bothered as it was mouse intensive and I got RSI. Shortly after GPC was withdrawn in DTE as they didn't trust us.

Axe "U Need 2 noe" and other nonsense in paper format, instead deploy on intranet for anyone sad enough to actually want to read it. YES

Same again for department magazines. YES, who reads them?

And for department public information leaflets. We had to do one 4 years ago. There was no quality assurance - two 'identical' sections had entirely different content when they should have been the same. No one took ownership and there was no annual or ever review for accuracy and currency.

[Pontius Navigator]

1. Stop the wasteful 'annualrity' of defence spending. It's wasteful that we get 'late spends' where we have to get rid of £2M from failed RPC ventures just so that we get the money next year - the whole budgets for projects (esp Infra) needs looking at! Absolutely - the path to nowhere across the field on an airfield that was to close - Lyneham

and work done on airfield and units when they know they are going to close but can't because the Minister hasn't signed off on the closure so unions have not been informed.

2. Ditch all the unaffordable ceremonial crap such as Guards units and Royal Horse Arty - it's a bygone era; forget it lads - move on - we have not used horses in true battle for some years and do we ever see any of the supposed tourist income that it generates? Wasteful in these lean times. MMMM

3. Cull the Civil service and get rid of the 'hangers on' that just 'exist' because people are too crap to use the restoring efficiency programme. Yes, and disestablish uniformed gapped posts. If you did without you can do without.

4. Build bloody Barracks and SFA in Central London, on MoD land and stop the millions being wasted on SSSA and SSSFA - why sell off Chelsea Barracks when we could have built service accn there? Same with all the waste at Abbey Wood - buy back RAF Locking and build accommodation!!! LOL, fact logic and reason - different budgets, PFI etc etc

6. Stop all the Stn Execs having their own cars just to drive from the patch and back? I mean, come on?? Bike you lazy sods!!! I heard they were going to tax them as company cars. BTW, who washes and DIs them?

7. Sell off Defence Estates and rent the land back in some PFI -do away with all the admin faff and let some big company deal with all our Infra needs Yes

8. Amalgamate all MoD admin functions - we now have JPA so lets just have a joint admin corps / service - it would save millions in less bull$hit admin hierarchies!! Nah, never work, just p1ss evryone off

PS, redraw the front line, Oh forgot, they are.

[indie cent]

Vin, you get my vote. I have a few of my own...

Serious question for those in the know: Under our "Code of Conduct", are we permitted to make suggestions outside the chain of command?

Nothing to stop us anonymously contributing I guess, just wonder where we stand officially before I jump in with both feet and a diving suit?

[dallas]

The Spams have a 'Fraud, Waste and Abuse' hotline across the US military - might even be a government scheme - and I've always thought something like this would have mileage, as well as a 'good ideas hotline' which bypasses the flawed thinking that rank equates directly to having the best ideas. Something broadly like the latter was circulated in about 2001 and ideas did seem to be pushed upwards.

I also agree entirely with financial longtermism as opposed to the annual panic budget holders seem to go through every March. Why a budget holder can't save up for a wanted item over several years is beyond me - perhaps the missing link is cash needs to be properly allocated as opposed to fully spent each FY.

[Roland Pulfrew]

7. Sell off Defence Estates and rent the land back in some PFI -do away with all the admin faff and let some big company deal with all our Infra needs Yes

For God sake NOOOOO!! Surely we have learned the lesson of selling off publicly owned property, that is an asset to the Nation, when we sold of all the MQs! In this route there only lies pain and huge cost to the military and the taxpayer for private profit.

4. Build bloody Barracks and SFA in Central London, on MoD land and stop the millions being wasted on SSSA and SSSFA - why sell off Chelsea Barracks when we could have built service accn there? Same with all the waste at Abbey Wood - buy back RAF Locking and build accommodation!!!

Totally agree. And whilst we are at it, why don't we build some apartment blocks on Govt land and rent them to all the MPs. No SSSA and SSFA to be rented at exorbitant London rental rates and no second homes for MPs at public expense and we could save millions per year.

[tucumseh]

The Spams have a 'Fraud, Waste and Abuse' hotline across the US military - might even be a government scheme - and I've always thought something like this would have mileage, as well as a 'good ideas hotline' which bypasses the flawed thinking that rank equates directly to having the best ideas.

In theory, we have such schemes. For example, there is a Fraud Hotline but it is manned by relatively junior staffs and as there are so many cases of fraud being condoned by senior staffs and Ministers they are rather toothless / scared to take action above their pay grade. In 1994 I suspected a company of fraud (triple billing and not delivering goods). I sought advice and was told I’d better make sure of my facts; that I should conduct a mini-investigation and collate a report. The upshot was that my report was accepted by both the company and MoD Plod and the monies were recovered (via credit notes). But I was severely bollocked for carrying out this initial investigation when it was not my job (apparently). That attitude would put a lot of people off. To his credit, my boss (1 Star) backed me up, but he was told to wind it in.

Similarly, we have had suggestion schemes, like MIDAS and GEMS. But, again, if you report waste the chances are that it is you who will catch it, because of the same attitudes (“waste is no concern of ours”). Any suggestion that saves significant sums makes them topple. I’ve seen many suggestions from procurers rejected on the grounds that we’re not allowed to make suggestions affecting our own area of expertise and, in any case, it is an offence to implement the regulations designed to prevent waste. Again, this deters people. Director Internal Audit issued a report in 1996 recommending these regulations be implemented, but it was rejected and continued waste condoned.

It is the ethos that must change. People who do their job efficiently should no longer be regarded as an “embarrassment to the Department”. It used to be a promotion board question (to the grade below the lowest grade in DE&S). “How would you save 10% on any avionics programme (without degrading capability)?” More than 10 seconds to reply and you haven’t been paying attention. Today, the correct answer (1. Implement the permanent LTC Instructions and 2. Conduct Requirement Scrutiny) is understood by a mere handful and no-one dare try it for fear of censure and ridicule.

[Pontius Navigator]

Indie, CinC Strike, either Burridge or the one before, introduced a challenge team (at least one person). If you thought something could be done better, differently, or should not be done at all, then you could ring them and it would be investigated.

I did it a couple of times but things were so slow you never appreciated if anything happened and after a year - poof.

Then Sir Clive introduced the paperless office, but never the technology to support it. Supposed to save thousands in office furntiture and space.

Of course Parkinson's Law immediately kicked in and other work was created.

Then Rustication ............ that got the T&S bills up.

[Saintsman]

Perhaps a moritorium on change every time a new boss arrives.

Just putting their stamp on things costs money and we all know that 2 years later it'll change again. Plus every one knows a lot of the ideas don't work because they've already been done before.

[Argonautical]

Stop paying some benefits with money. Why can't the unemployed be paid with food/clothing vouchers ? These could be redeemed at any shop/supermarket but would not include tobacco, alcohol or electrical goods. If the unemployed wants to watch TV on a 42 " plasma then they will have to find work to earn the money.

[The Old Fat One]

Stop paying some benefits with money. Why can't the unemployed be paid with food/clothing vouchers ? These could be redeemed at any shop/supermarket but would not include tobacco, alcohol or electrical goods. If the unemployed wants to watch TV on a 42 " plasma then they will have to find work to earn the money.

I think the poster meant within the defence budget - nevertheless yours is an outstanding, and very progressive idea. I am amazed that it has not yet been muted by someone like Frank Fields for example.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Argonautical

Stop paying some benefits with money. Why can't the unemployed be paid with food/clothing vouchers ? These could be redeemed at any shop/supermarket but would not include tobacco, alcohol or electrical goods. If the unemployed wants to watch TV on a 42 " plasma then they will have to find work to earn the money.

Nah, been tried. They are just flogged off on the black market for beer, booze, fags or some other sin at below face value.

Same if you actually gave them out as tins of food or clothes; they would finish up on eBay.

Now if you introduced mass catering of good quality, non-fattening foods, then they would have to eat or go hungry. Do clothing like clothing stores: cheap unfashionable clothing on a one-for-one exchange basis.

Clothes could have a catchy little logo (competition entries for the logo prize
£1 each) such as Freebie Fashions or Coalition Casuals

Maybe even a Freebie 26 inch flat screen TV that only operates after 6pm.

[The Old Fat One]

Flat rate allowances used to be cost effective, but modern IT systems (when--they--work!!!) have rendered that argument redundant. You don't need to analyse it...just look at what big successful, profit-making companies do. They are experts at cost-effectiveness. Most big companies pay actuals input through a system like SAP.

As PN points out, you cannot incentivise employees to make money by saving on allowances without incurring a tax burden on the individual, which would swiftly become a monumental pain in backside.

[The Old Fat One]

PN

I would try it again, with all the modern security techniques imbedded.

[Pontius Navigator]

TOFO,

There may be more secure ways for vouchers. Unfortunately there are people out there who are far cleverer than those at work who can circumvent the best security that money can buy.

Apart from the black market, vouchers could soon be counterfeited.

Had a thought on the unfashionable clothing, just realised that was a b0ll0cks idea. More of the public are wandering around in DPMs or fashion look-a-likes. At least the fashion for wearing NBC suits has died off, mainly because they have worn out.

[indie cent]

Haha, good thread this.

So, it seems we are virtually powerless to get money-saving ideas "shoved up" the chain of command.

Therefore, I visited the spending challenge and sent off some ideas with the caveat " I wish to remain anonymous to my organization" placed in the text...

Whilst I completely agree with many of the above ideas. e.g. Allowances should become flat rate and completely simplified, I'm not sure that we'd be able to offer a large enough saving to warrant close attention at this stage. The shocking thing about the previous government's wanton overspend is the scale (25%) of savings that are needed right now. The coalition government have a couple of months to sort this out.

I think it may be big ticket purchase items, branches, fleets and stations that need considering at this stage or we will be fiddling while Rome burns.

If we, at the coalface, don't put forward ideas; savings will be forced upon us, and the solutions may not be entirely sensible.... ! At least we have been asked by the coalition. There couldn't possibly be a lethal cocktail of self-interest, protectionism and backstabbing going on in the higher echelons...

errr...these are my own opinions and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer!!

[Chest Poker]

Cut-back on some 'Air-ships' in command..... We have far to many.

Close the Gym's.

Return to flat rate rates on det / deployment rather than crazy JPA system.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by indie cent

Whilst I completely agree with many of the above ideas. e.g. Allowances should become flat rate and completely simplified, I'm not sure that we'd be able to offer a large enough saving to warrant close attention at this stage.

Allowance/T&S are always the easiest to hit and give the least painful (from an inventory POV) saving. That it is often nugatory to business and only temporary is always overlooked and have a big effect or moral and efficiency.

....

I think it may be big ticket purchase items, branches, fleets and stations that need considering at this stage or we will be fiddling while Rome burns.

But we know it will a cut in the unsexy maintenance budget (no painting) and not the tiffy, CVS, JSF, Dii, T45, SSBN that are offered up for sacrifice.

No Air Marshal got on a board of directors for paint or invisible ground-source
heat pumps.

We need to kill off the peripheral hangers-on like Enviros who take our JSP, fiddle with it, populate it, then charge us a whole bundle of cash when we have to re-write what they did. Then we put the Environmental Management System on the shelf to gather dust for ever more as the Cover Your Acer that originally signed up for it has moved on to retirement.

Or the bye-law revue team moving so slowly that bases close as they put up their new signs.

PS, forgot, a retired airship did sign up to a ground source heat pump.

[anotherthing]

2. Ditch all the unaffordable ceremonial crap such as Guards units and Royal Horse Arty - it's a bygone era; forget it lads - move on - we have not used horses in true battle for some years and do we ever see any of the supposed tourist income that it generates? Wasteful in these lean times.

I think you'll find that the Guards units and RHA work bloody hard and spend a hell of a lot of time in Afgahistan, outside the wire. As superbly illustrated in a documentary about 'Trooping the Colour' a few weeks ago. Your statement might not go down too well with several of the unit who returned minus limbs