Why NCO's Are The Backbone Of The Military!
BEagle
There is no way that any particular segment can consider themselves, or be considered by others, to be the 'Backbone of the Military'.
Similar statements are made at every opportunity to butter-up the SNCOs and make them feel appreciated, especially during the sh*tty times. Most SNCOs know this and they know their own worth. They may not totally run the show but they do have the experience and the contacts to make things happen.
Personally I have come across good and bad officers and SNCOs.
Aaron.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Age: 84
Posts: 897
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shack: age is merely a number, and in my xcase the three score and ten came as a helluva surprise I can tell you, and yes I had noticed the ages, which is why I've just added mine!
MGD: I haven't questioned the role/importance of NCOs; to the contrary I think they are every bit as important as the officers myself included, but in the end it comes down to reponsibility and I personally would never presume I was more important than anyone else merely because of rank. I do however, carry the can!
MGD: I haven't questioned the role/importance of NCOs; to the contrary I think they are every bit as important as the officers myself included, but in the end it comes down to reponsibility and I personally would never presume I was more important than anyone else merely because of rank. I do however, carry the can!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pontius and Tanker, sorry to be so late replying, have been away flying, so you would have me belive that your "Royals" are treated exactly as any other aircrew wanabe, no preference given? As one who was told by a Brit Lt Cmdr who made bloody sure he never flew of a deck that our Canadian Commisions were only " Colonial, and dont count" I have a bit of a problem believing you, I have no clue as to the relative merits of your various school systems from which officers may come, if you want to see how it should work I would sugest a look at the IAF might help. Its interesting that in Canada we now have almost one source of officers, RMC, the decline in quality is plain to see, no longer is each pilot course made up of a cross section of the military, the present very public bolicking of senior officers is the result of this lack of a larger gene pool, the US Navy being the worst example of this.Maybe your services will in a few years be more egalitarian than ours, time will tell.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Up where we belong
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
There is no way that any particular segment can consider themselves, or be considered by others, to be the 'Backbone of the Military'.
I am sure you are correct, but at every dining-in night in the WO and Sgts' Mess that I have attended, and there have been many over the years, the guest speaker, of the officer variety, always declares that the SNCO is indeed the "backbone of the service".
Similar statements are made at every opportunity to butter-up the SNCOs and make them feel appreciated, especially during the sh*tty times. Most SNCOs know this and they know their own worth
There is no way that any particular segment can consider themselves, or be considered by others, to be the 'Backbone of the Military'.
I am sure you are correct, but at every dining-in night in the WO and Sgts' Mess that I have attended, and there have been many over the years, the guest speaker, of the officer variety, always declares that the SNCO is indeed the "backbone of the service".
Similar statements are made at every opportunity to butter-up the SNCOs and make them feel appreciated, especially during the sh*tty times. Most SNCOs know this and they know their own worth
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
clunck,
Don't doubt the validity of your opinion but I would question its basis. When did you meet this Lt Cdr?
If your age is true it must be some time ago.
You mention your small gene pool and single source of officers. Well we have a similar single source system albeit one for each service. We used to have multiple streams just for each Service.
The vast majority of RAF aircrew 50 years ago - your vintage - came through the oik system. Entry between 17-25 and 4 months basic training before being taught to aviate. Definitely not your officer class but some fine officer material there nine the less.
Don't doubt the validity of your opinion but I would question its basis. When did you meet this Lt Cdr?
If your age is true it must be some time ago.
You mention your small gene pool and single source of officers. Well we have a similar single source system albeit one for each service. We used to have multiple streams just for each Service.
The vast majority of RAF aircrew 50 years ago - your vintage - came through the oik system. Entry between 17-25 and 4 months basic training before being taught to aviate. Definitely not your officer class but some fine officer material there nine the less.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I believe you know a particular SNCO I have in mind and he was a classic poor SNCO - SNCO by aptitude and qualification and not by ability, initiative and leadership qualities.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pontius, regretfully the age is correct, a point brought home yesterday after four hours of hand flying in rather soggy conditions! As for the Lt Cmdr, the encounter was in London UK about 1959, so I gues that is a long time ago! In my dealings with British forces the NCOs who made the greatest impresion on me were the ex Halton "Brats", given a screwdiver and a wrench these guys could fix anything, as well as having the ability to keep a whole crew motivated in the most difficult conditions, I understand this system is now a thing of the past, if so its a bloody shame.Lets agree to differ on our perceptions of the various social orders in our two nations, having just watched the destruction in Toronto by a mob of young punks maybe its time to get some of our retired Drill NCOs out of retirment to fix things, Regards Clunck.
Champagne anyone...?
This thread is an unmitigated load of cobblers.
May I suggest this be moved to the Aviation History & Nostalgia board where most of the posted opinions belong?
Right, I'm off to birch an airman.
May I suggest this be moved to the Aviation History & Nostalgia board where most of the posted opinions belong?
Right, I'm off to birch an airman.
Thread Starter
Seems to me some of us are trying to use the "exceptions" rather than the "rule" to prove their case. No system is perfect and there are always a few that fail to measure up. But....don't we do a dis-service to the vast majority that prove the "rule" by using the few that don't measure up.
Those critical of the thesis of my initial post are the ones that appear guilty of this mistake in my less than humble opinion.
As to moving the thread to any forum but the RAF forum seems to be a common fault hereabouts. I thought this was a "military aircrew" forum and not uniquely for RAF posters. Perhaps there ought to be such a forum modelled after the Airline Forums.
Those critical of the thesis of my initial post are the ones that appear guilty of this mistake in my less than humble opinion.
As to moving the thread to any forum but the RAF forum seems to be a common fault hereabouts. I thought this was a "military aircrew" forum and not uniquely for RAF posters. Perhaps there ought to be such a forum modelled after the Airline Forums.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
" Unmitigated load of cobblers?" Could someone explain WTH this means? Cant for the life of me understand what fixing footwear has to do with this thread, Queens English ? Or the latest catch phrase from some TV show?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South of England
Age: 74
Posts: 627
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
#29 - well said, Beags, couldn't have put it better myself.
#40 - matkat, ditto.
clunkdriver - things have changed in the UK (the class system still exists but most of us see it as museum piece) and the armed forces have changed; the current pace of operations and lack of resources mean that everyone pulls together. So cheer up, chum, in some ways it's better over here than it was when you were here.
#40 - matkat, ditto.
clunkdriver - things have changed in the UK (the class system still exists but most of us see it as museum piece) and the armed forces have changed; the current pace of operations and lack of resources mean that everyone pulls together. So cheer up, chum, in some ways it's better over here than it was when you were here.
Beagle is right.
The backbone of the military is the military. Plenty of great SNCOs, plenty of crap ones and everything in between, same with Officers, same with JRs.
Edited due to typing pigs.
The backbone of the military is the military. Plenty of great SNCOs, plenty of crap ones and everything in between, same with Officers, same with JRs.
Edited due to typing pigs.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 146 Likes
on
28 Posts
For our Canadian friend, 'a load of old Cobblers' is actually cockney rhyming slang for testicles ("cobbler's awls" = "balls" = "testicles").
So it means the same as "you're talking bollocks".
Hope that helps!
So it means the same as "you're talking bollocks".
Hope that helps!
Clunck, try `googling `Cockney rhyming slang` for cobblers and other quaint expressions...
Champagne anyone...?
Bless you all for your assistance. Here it is, Ready-Googled for you:
And for those struggling to read between the lines, this thread should be moved to AH&N, not because its nothing to do with the RAF but because many of the opinions expressed here seem to have been formed and thus belong in history 
But just to placate you all, here is a picture of one of our SNCOs out on the line, keeping the RAF on it's feet:
And here's one of his officers dealing with a similar challenge:
Right, I'm off to get one of the men to carry my bags. And stable my horse. Then I can motor "dine to tine" for cocktails with Bertie, Squiffy and Wibbly before taking the rest of the week off at Mater & Pater's pile in Hampers. Might even get the beaters to whip up some trade and see if we can't go out and shoot some of the working classes.
Sgt Mutton-Chops can sort the men out in my absence.
Pip pip.
A load of cobblers
Meaning
Nonsense, rubbish.
Origin
This is a classic of Cockney rhyming slang. It has nothing directly to do with shoemakers but originates from cobbler's awls, which are the pointed hand-tools that cobblers use to pierce holes in leather. The rhyme is with balls, or testicles.
The phrase is often reduced just to cobblers, which is now considered an acceptable vulgarism, as many may not be aware of its origin. 'Cobblers' sounds as though it might have been said by cheeky Victorian barrow boys in Dickens or similar. In fact, isn't as old as it might sound and didn't begin being used until the mid 20th century. The earliest example of it that I've found in print, bearing in mind that it probably existed as street slang for some time before printed versions appeared, is from Philip Allingham's Cheapjack, his account of life amongst English market traders and fairground stall-holders, which was published in 1934:
"The Cobbler is even more simple. It is a ball game..‘cobbler’ is the slang for ball."
The first example of the full phrase 'a load of cobblers' that I can find is from the British popular music magazine Melody Maker, October 1968:
"Geno Washington says Grapefruit's recent attack on the Maryland Club, Glasgow, was 'a load of cobblers'. They are one of the best audiences in Britain, says Geno."
Meaning
Nonsense, rubbish.
Origin
This is a classic of Cockney rhyming slang. It has nothing directly to do with shoemakers but originates from cobbler's awls, which are the pointed hand-tools that cobblers use to pierce holes in leather. The rhyme is with balls, or testicles.
The phrase is often reduced just to cobblers, which is now considered an acceptable vulgarism, as many may not be aware of its origin. 'Cobblers' sounds as though it might have been said by cheeky Victorian barrow boys in Dickens or similar. In fact, isn't as old as it might sound and didn't begin being used until the mid 20th century. The earliest example of it that I've found in print, bearing in mind that it probably existed as street slang for some time before printed versions appeared, is from Philip Allingham's Cheapjack, his account of life amongst English market traders and fairground stall-holders, which was published in 1934:
"The Cobbler is even more simple. It is a ball game..‘cobbler’ is the slang for ball."
The first example of the full phrase 'a load of cobblers' that I can find is from the British popular music magazine Melody Maker, October 1968:
"Geno Washington says Grapefruit's recent attack on the Maryland Club, Glasgow, was 'a load of cobblers'. They are one of the best audiences in Britain, says Geno."
But just to placate you all, here is a picture of one of our SNCOs out on the line, keeping the RAF on it's feet:
And here's one of his officers dealing with a similar challenge:
Right, I'm off to get one of the men to carry my bags. And stable my horse. Then I can motor "dine to tine" for cocktails with Bertie, Squiffy and Wibbly before taking the rest of the week off at Mater & Pater's pile in Hampers. Might even get the beaters to whip up some trade and see if we can't go out and shoot some of the working classes.
Sgt Mutton-Chops can sort the men out in my absence.
Pip pip.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Actually where I found this alive and well was in India. In just a few days I got used to arriving at the hotel, the driver would stop under the portico, my door would be opened and I would alight.
Any parcels, packets, or papers would then be collected and carried for me to the doorman who would, in turn, hand them to the bell boy who would, if it had been required, carry them to my suite.
Sad to say, I was not staying in the hotel but merely using it as an RV.
Now that was style.
Any parcels, packets, or papers would then be collected and carried for me to the doorman who would, in turn, hand them to the bell boy who would, if it had been required, carry them to my suite.
Sad to say, I was not staying in the hotel but merely using it as an RV.
Now that was style.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: london
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Deserved
....
It is not disclosed if an NCO was involved however the following ancedote relates to an inscription upon the gravestone in Calcutta
of Capt J Butler who was accidentally shot dead by his batman -
"Well done though good and faithful servant"
...
It is not disclosed if an NCO was involved however the following ancedote relates to an inscription upon the gravestone in Calcutta
of Capt J Butler who was accidentally shot dead by his batman -
"Well done though good and faithful servant"
...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South of Old Warden
Age: 87
Posts: 1,375
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that, in the RAF, it's the officers who in the main, actually fight the war. I think this is most commendable.
StopStart, that liney has just got to be a 'fairy'
StopStart, that liney has just got to be a 'fairy'